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JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ORGANIZATION OF CONGRESS

[Authorized by H. Con. Res. 192, 102d Congress]

SENATE

DAVID L. BOREN, Oklahoma, Co-Chairman

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico, Co Vice Chairman JIM SASSER, Tennessee

NANCY L. KASSEBAUM, Kansas WENDELL H. FORD, Kentucky

TRENT LOTT, Mississippi HARRY REID, Nevada

TED STEVENS, Alaska PAUL S. SARBANES, Maryland

WILLIAM S. COHEN, Maine
DAVID PRYOR, Arkansas

RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
GEORGE J. MITCHELL, Maine, Ex Officio

ROBERT DOLE, Kansas, Ex Officio

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

LEE H. HAMILTON, Indiana, Co-Chairman

DAVID DREIER, California, Co-Vice Chairman DAVID OBEY, Wisconsin

ROBERT S. WALKER, Pennsylvania AL SWIFT, Washington

GERALD B.H. SOLOMON, New York SAM GEJDENSON, Connecticut

BILL EMERSON, Missouri
JOHN M. SPRATT, JR., South Carolina WAYNE ALLARD, Colorado
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, D.C.

JENNIFER DUNN, Washington
RICHARD A. GEPHARDT, Missouri, Ex Officio

ROBERT H. MICHEL, Illinois, Ex Officio

G. KIM WINCUP, Staff Director
WALTER OLESZEK, Policy Director

KELLY L. CORDES, Chief Clerk
JOHN F. DEEKEN, Professional Staff Member
C. LAWRENCE EVANS, Professional Staff Member

PHILIP W. GRONE, Professional Staff Member
NICHOLAS P. WISE, Professional Staff Member

MAUREEN GROPPE, APSA Fellow
CAROL HARDY VINCENT, CRS Policy Analyst
JACK MASKELL, CRS Legislative Attorney

JAMES SATURNO, CRS Policy Analyst
MARY LOU SMULLEN, Special Assistant

SHELLEY GOUGH, Staff Assistant
STACEY SPEVAK, Staff Assistant

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93-806367

Hon. David E. Price, a U.S. Representative from the State of North Carolina...

Prepared statement.

Hon. Christopher Cox, a U.S. Representative from the State of California .........

Prepared statement

Articles for the record..

Hon. Dick Zimmer, a U.S. Representative from the State of New Jersey..

Prepared statement

Hon. Dana Rohrabacher, a U.S. Representative from the State of California ...

Hon. Michael Castle, a U.S. Representative from the State of Delaware........

Prepared statement.

Hon. William F. Goodling, a U.S. Representative from the Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania ........

Prepared statement

Hon. Ike Skelton, a U.S. Representative from the State of Missouri

Hon. John Edward Porter, a U.S. Representative from the State of Illinois.

Prepared statement,

Hon. Earl Hutto, a U.S. Representative from the State of Florida.

Prepared statement ......

Hon. Clay Shaw, a U.S. Representative from the State of Florida

Hon. Joel Hefley, a U.S. Representative from the State of Colorado

Prepared statement

Hon. Jim Bacchus, a U.S. Representative from the State of Florida

Prepared statement

Hon. Dave McCurdy, a U.S. Representative from the State of Oklahoma

Prepared statement.

Hon. Porter Goss, a U.S. Representative from the State of Florida.

Prepared statement.

Hon. Patricia Schroeder, a U.S. Representative from the State of Colorado..

Hon. Thomas M. Barrett, a U.S. Representative from the State of Wisconsin

Prepared statement

Hon. Christopher Shays, a U.S. Representative from the State of Connecticut..

Prepared statement

Hon. Dick Swett, a U.S. Representative from the State of New Hampshire.

Prepared statement

Hon. David Mann, a U.S. Representative from the State of Ohio

Prepared statement

Hon. Jay Dickey, a U.S. Representative from the State of Arkansas.

Prepared statement

Hon. Fred Upton, a U.S. Representative from the State of Michigan

Prepared statement

Hon. Romano L. Mazzoli, a U.S. Representative from the Commonwealth of

Kentucky.....

Prepared statement

Hon. Scott L. Klug, a U.S. Representative from the State of Wisconsin

Prepared statement.

Page Hon. John A. Boehner, a U.S. Representative from the State of Ohio.

59 Prepared statement

169 Hon. Charles H. Taylor, a U.S. Representative from the State of North Carolina....

61 Prepared statement

171 Hon. John T. Doolittle, a U.S. Representative from the State of California........ 62 Prepared statement

174 Hon. Jim Nussle, a U.S. Representative from the State of Iowa.

64 Prepared statement

176 Hon. Rick Santorum, a U.S. Representative from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ...

67 Prepared statement

180 Hon. Karen Shepherd, a U.S. Representative from the State of Utah

73 Prepared statement

181 Hon. Èric Fingerhut, a U.S. Representative from the State of Ohio.....

73 Prepared statement

181 Hon. Ronald K. Machtley, a U.S. Representative from the State of Rhode Island

75 Hon. Jack Quinn, a U.S. Representative from the State of New York. Prepared statement

186 Hon. Martin T. Meehan, a U.S. Representative from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts

78 Prepared statement.

190 Hon. Roscoe G. Bartlett, a U.S. Representative from the State of Maryland...... 79 Hon. Michael D. Crapo, a U.S. Representative from the State of Idaho.......

80 Prepared statement

197 Hon. Paul McHale, a U.S. Representative from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania .....

82 Prepared statement

201 Hon. William Zeliff, a U.S. Representative from the State of New Hampshire.. 88 Prepared statement.

204 Hon. Tillie Fowler, a U.S. Representative from the State of Florida..

89 Prepared statement .....

209 Hon. Charles T. Canady, a U.S. Representative from the State of Florida.

90 Prepared statement

211 Hon. John Linder, a U.S. Representative from the State of Georgia

91 Prepared statement

216 Hon. Jay Kim, a U.S. Representative from the State of California.

93

77

APPENDIX

Statements:

Hon. Gerald Solomon, a U.S. Representative from the State of New York .....
Hon. Henry Bonilla, a U.S. Representative from the State of Texas.
Hon. Robert Dornan, a U.S. Representative from the State of California........
Hon. J. Dennis Hastert, a U.S. Representative from the State of Illinois......
Hon. Michael Huffington, a U.S. Representative from the State of Califor-

nia..........
Hon. Mac Collins, a U.S. Representative from the State of Georgia

220 223 225 239

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241 243

OPERATIONS OF THE CONGRESS: TESTIMONY OF CURRENT REPRESENTATIVES ON THE STRUCTURE OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1993

UNITED STATES CONGRESS,
JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ORGANIZATION OF CONGRESS,

Washington, DC. The Joint Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Lee H. Hamilton (co-chairman of the committee) presiding. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LEE H. HAMILTON, A U.S.

REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA Chairman HAMILTON. The meeting of the Joint Committee on the Organization of Congress will come to order. Today we will be hearing from 44 Members of the House. We have asked the Members to appear in response to an open invitation from the Joint Committee to all of the Members, asking for their testimony; and we are asking them today to appear roughly in the order of seniority, although, clearly, we will have to make some adjustments as we go through the day's schedule to try to accommodate activity on the Floor and the schedule of Members.

We did want to hear first from David Price, however. He is a nationally recognized scholar of the Congress, has written a book about it, taught congressional politics at Duke for two decades, and I guess has written not just one, but several books on the subject of congressional operations. So as a Member and as a scholar, he has an extraordinary view of this institution, and we welcome him here today to begin the testimony of the Members.

In several cases as we move along, Members have indicated to us that they would be testifying on the same topic, so we have tried to group some of these Members together in order to give coherence to the testimony.

Mr. Dreier, do you have any opening comments?

Mr. DREIER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me first congratulate Mr. Price for not only being here, but for Duke's great victory, and also to say that I would like to extend apologies from my colleague from Missouri, Mr. Emerson, who very much wanted to be here, but unfortunately, due to the fact that he was one of the co-chairmen of the prayer breakfast, he is meeting with

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a number of delegates from around the world here in town, and he is unable to be here this morning, but is hoping to be here later.

I also, Mr. Chairman, would like to enter into the record at this point an opening statement from my colleague, the distinguished Ranking Republican on the Rules Committee, Mr. Solomon.

Chairman HAMILTON. Without objection, that will be entered into the record.

[The statement of Mr. Solomon is printed in the Appendix.] Chairman HAMILTON. Mr. Price, welcome, and you may begin.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. DAVID E. PRICE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA Mr. PRICE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Dreier. I appreciate your warm welcome and also

the congratulations, although I would have to say that whenever Carolina plays Duke in central North Carolina, we win either way. And I particularly feel that way as a Representative from that area.

I am glad for the chance to appear before you today and to discuss with you the way Congress might be more effectively organized. Your committee is taking on a critical task at a critical time. The American people are experiencing great frustration with governmental ineffectiveness and paralysis. We know we can do better, and an important part of doing better is to improve the performance of this institution.

This morning I have one main purpose in mind, and that is to urge you, as you begin your work, to take care to distinguish genuine congressional reform for much of what is being peddled these days under that label.

I also will highlight a few areas of needed change, mainly pertaining to the House of Representatives, the chamber in which I serve.

Prior to my first election to the House, I worked as an aide to the late Senator Bob Bartlett of Alaska, I wrote a lateral dissertation, and then spent some 17 years as a political scientist writing and teaching about Congress. These were the years, early on, that produced books with titles like Obstacle Course on Capitol Hill and House Out of Order by our own champion of reform in the House, Richard Bolling. The policy frustrations and failings of the early 1960s in particular suggested the need for a performance-based critique and reform agenda, a need that was lessened, but not totally removed by the post-1964 spate of congressional productivity.

This strain of reform, which was kept alive by such Members as Bolling and Morris Udall, helped produce positive changes, particularly after the arrival of the post-Watergate class of 1974; the reining in, for example, of the House Rules Committee and its establishment as an arm of the leadership; strengthened leadership control over committee assignments on both sides of the aisle; strengthened leadership control over bill reversals, Floor operations, and a measure of accountability by committee chairs to the party caucus.

The reforms of the 1970s were not driven solely by a desire for efficient and responsive policymaking, but there were other goals: a desire to democratize the chamber, a desire to distribute authority

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