(Witnesses: Zappone, Burch.) Mr. ZAPPONE. Mr. Chairman, as requested, I also submit the following statement of salaries for the office of the Secretary of Agriculture, including salaries for extra labor, etc., for ten years--that is, from the fiscal year 1897 to the fiscal year 1906, both inclusive: You will note that there is an increase of $31,460 in the fiscal year 1906, the year now under discussion, over the preceding fiscal year 1905. This is due principally to the transfer to the Secretary's roll of a number of mechanics and low-salaried clerks who had previously been paid on the lump-fund rolls of the different bureaus and detailed to his office. At the suggestion of the Committee on Agriculture, all clerks detailed to other bureaus and offices were transferred to the appropriation of that bureau or office. In addition the emergency fund, which had been $1,000 the previous fiscal year.. was increased to $10,000, as the need for the employment of additional mechanics for emergency work of a temporary character had largely increased. During prior years at least the majority of them you will find that the appropriations decreased rather than increased. The CHAIRMAN. What are the duties of the Assistant Secretary of Agriculture? That is, what work does he have to perform independent of the duties that you are discharging, in a general way? Mr. BURCH. He has various duties. He acts as Secretary, of course, in the absence of the Secretary, and has scientific work assigned him. by the Secretary. That does not come under my province at all. The CHAIRMAN. Do any of the duties discharged by the Assistant Secretary run on parallel lines with the work that is allotted to you and that you have to do? Mr. BURCH. None whatever. Mr. ZAPPONE. Mr. Chairman, I think the second item in the appropriation act of this Department for 1906 prescribes the duties of the Assistant Secretary of Agriculture. They are such duties as may be turned over to him by the Secretary. No, I am mistaken; it is in the appropriation act of 1907 that his duties were fixed. The CHAIRMAN. This investigation relates to 1906, so that would not be very illuminative for us. You may state, in a general way, what duties he does discharge. Of course we understand that in the absence of the Secretary he acts as Secretary. Mr. BURCH. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And during that period he discharges, in a general way, all the duties that are discharged by the Secretary himself? Mr. BURCH. Yes. I think, Mr. Chairman, that you had better call the Assistant Secretary on this point. The CHAIRMAN. Very well, then. He will be called if necessary. Mr. BURCH. For this reason: It is scientific work, and I am not connected with the scientific branch of the service. The CHAIRMAN. I see-well, that covers it. Mr. BURCH. My duties are administrative. The CHAIRMAN. The statement you have already made covers practically all the knowledge that you have in that respect? (Witness: Burch.) Mr. BURCH. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. The solicitor for the Department is an attorney. I suppose? Mr. BURCH. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. His salary is $2,500 a year, and expenses, $424.41. Will you explain to the committee, in a general way, what circumstances gave rise to the incurring of expenses on the part of the solicitor? Mr. BURCH. He is sent out by the Secretary to investigate any violations of law on the part of the railroads; for instance, in regard to the transportation of live stock, and many other things where there is a violation of the law pertaining to this Department. The CHAIRMAN. Then the solicitor is not necessarily confined to the Department itself in the discharge of his duties? That is, his work requires him to go outside? Mr. BURCH. It is altogether connected with our Department. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; it is connected with the Department, but a good deal of his service has been rendered outside? Mr. BURCH. Outside; yes. He furnishes information, gathers information, for the Department of Justice in the prosecution of violators of the law. The CHAIRMAN. Is that work supplemental to the investigation of the Department of Justice? Please tell us whether the solicitor for your Department originates these investigations and then turns them over to the Department of Justice. Mr. BURCH. The violations of law are reported to the Department by people who are connected with the Department out in the field. They are turned over to the solictor, who investigates the cases, classifies the evidence, and turns the case over to the Department of Justice, and then in many cases assists the United States attorneys in the trial of the cases. The CHAIRMAN. They are reported to the Department of Agriculture? Mr. BURCH. They are reported to the Department of Agriculture, and then the solicitor is sent to investigate and find out what they are and how much there is to them, of course. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Then, at what stage of the proceedings is the investigation turned over to the Department of Justice? Mr. BURCH. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think you will have to have the solicitor here to give you that information, because that is outside of my knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. What I wanted to get at is whether there is any probable duplication of work between the Department of Justice and the Department of Agriculture. Mr. BURCH. I think not. The CHAIRMAN. That you would not have personal knowledge of? Mr. BURCH. Of course, these proceedings are brought in the courts where the violations may occur. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; but the Department of Agriculture does not Mr. BURCH. And the attention of the Department of Justice is called to the violations when the cases are brought. The CHAIRMAN (continuing). But the Department of Agriculture does not actually prosecute anybody for violation of law, does it? (Witness: Burch.) Mr. BURCH. No; they do not prosecute, but they furnish the information to the Department of Justice, and in many cases the solicitor assists the United States attorneys in the trials. The CHAIRMAN. Do we understand that it is the practice in the Department of Agriculture, when their attention is called to a violation of the law within the scope of the operations of that Department, to make the preliminary investigation through the solicitor of the Department of Agriculture, and that then, at some stage of the proceedings, if it results in a prosecution it is turned over to the Department of Justice? Mr. BURCH. The Department of Justice has the supervision of the cases, as I understand it. The solicitor, of course, does many other things. He drafts and approves contracts and leases and all legal papers to which the Department is a party. The CHAIRMAN. That is, the solicitor of the Department of Agriculture discharges other duties in the Department? He is Mr. BURCH. Oh, yes. He goes out on the road very often. with the Secretary now, investigating this pure-food business, in regard to distillers of whisky, etc. The CHAIRMAN. Is he the only legal adviser that the Department has? Mr. BURCH. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. How much of his time is necessarily spent outside of the Department? I am speaking now of the Department proper, where his office is located, here in Washington. Mr. BURCH. He makes various trips. Probably a couple of months during each year, I should say. The CHAIRMAN. And it is during that period that this item of expenses would be incurred! Mr. BURCH. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What is the practice of the Department in connection with the incurring of expenses on the part of the Secretary or the Assistant Secretary or the solicitor as to their payment-the circumstances under which they are paid--the method you adopt? Mr. BURCH. They have an authorization-the Secretary does not, of course, but the Assistant Secretary, the solicitor, and all others have an authorization not to exceed a certain amount, and the amount of payment to them is governed by the rules and regulations of the Department. The CHAIRMAN. Do they present vouchers from time to time? The CHAIRMAN. Or do they wait until all the expenses have been incurred and then present vouchers in the aggregate? Mr. BURCH. They present them upon return from each trip. The CHAIRMAN. Who supervises that? Is there anybody in the Department who passes on the vouchers? Mr. BURCH. Oh, yes. The CHAIRMAN. Who does? Mr. BURCH. It is done in the disbursing office. The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes-Mr. Zappone's department. So far as you know, in relation to the matters that you have knowledge of, wherever expenses are incurred through traveling away from Washington-and I suppose that is the only instance where expenses are incurred, is it not? 23848-07-6 (Witnesses: Burch, Moore.) Mr. BURCH. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN (continuing). Wherever expenses of that character are incurred, the vouchers, as I understand you, are submitted at the time of the incurring of the expense, passed through the disbursing department, and approved? Mr. BURCH. Immediately on return. The CHAIRMAN. And then from time to time paid? Is that the practice? Mr. BURCH. Yes, sir; immediately on return. Professor MOORE. Mr. Chairman, I think I can enlighten you just a little there, if you will permit me. The CHAIRMAN. Certainly. Professor MOORE. In regard to the duties of Mr. McCabe, to give you a concrete example: When there is a violation of law, for instance, relating to the Weather Bureau, I investigate it, and usually then ask the solicitor for an opinion whether it will justify us in going ahead and getting evidence to be carried over to the Department of Justice, and on his opinion I start our inspectors to working the case up. Then I turn it over to him, and he gets the case ready for the Department of Justice, to whom it is referred by the Secretary. Then he will assist the Department of Justice, as our representative, in giving further information, and sometimes assists in trying the cases, so that between our Department and the Department of Justice they prosecute the cases. The CHAIRMAN. Then, if I understand you correctly, the solicitor makes the preliminary investigations in case of alleged violations of law? Professor MOORE. Precisely. The CHAIRMAN. That comes within the scope of the Department of Agriculture? Professor MOORE. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And then, after having made a preliminary examination, which may perhaps involve a trip away from Washington and return Professor MOORE. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. If, after having made it, his judgment is that a condition of facts exist that would justify prosecutions, he turns the matter over to the Department of Justice? Professor MOORE. Precisely. The CHAIRMAN. Does he give to the Department of Justice his legal advice in connection with the construction of law? Professor MOORE. I think not at all, unless requested. The CHAIRMAN. That is a matter for the Department of Justice? Professor MOORE. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. So that practically all that Mr. McCabe has to do is to work out details of this character? Professor MOORE. Yes; and he advises the various bureau chiefs with regard to all points of law. For instance, take the Weather Bureau contracts-we build a great many buildings a year. In connection with the various Weather Bureau stations, something comes up in regard to a contract, some dispute between the contractor and our local official; and I frequently call on Mr. McCabe for advice as to the legal aspect of the case, so as to guide me in my official acts as Chief of the Bureau; and I understand that the other bureau (Witnesses: Moore, Burch, Melvin, Zappone.) chiefs call upon him. He is the legal adviser of the various bureau chiefs; keeping them straight on points of law. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you had a solicitor? Mr. BURCH. Three years, I think. We had a man acting in his stead some time ago. Professor MOORE. A sort of a law clerk. Mr. BURCH. That drew contracts and did various duties. The CHAIRMAN. Was it not practicable to get along with a law clerk? Mr. BURCH. It might have been at that time. The CHAIRMAN. I suppose the law clerk received less salary? Professor MOORE. Well, I do not believe he was even a regular graduate in law. Mr. BURCH. He was not a graduate. Professor MOORE. He was not competent for the work. Doctor MELVIN. He was simply fairly well read in law, without being a lawyer. Mr. FLOOD. I do not suppose his salary was very much smaller than this salary, at any rate? Professor MOORE. His salary was $2,000. Mr. ZAPPONE. The salary of the law clerk was $2,000. Mr. FLOOD. This is only $2,500. Mr. ZAPPONE. Yes; Mr. McCabe was made solicitor at $2,500. The CHAIRMAN. I will put this general question: I have an impression that it has become more or less a practice, not necessarily in this Department, but in a great many of the Departments, to change the position that the man occupies, and therefore indirectly increase the salary attached to the position. Is there any practice like that in this Department? I am not intimating that it is not proper or that it is improper. Mr. ZAPPONE. There certainly has not been in this case. Had he remained even as a law clerk he would have been earning $2,500 per annum now. The CHAIRMAN. But is there any general practice of that kind in the Department? Mr. ZAPPONE. No; not in the Department of Agriculture. May I read here the duties of the solicitor as given in the Congressional Directory? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. ZAPPONE (reading): The solicitor acts as the legal adviser of the Secretary, and has charge of the preparation and supervision of all legal papers to which the Department is a party, and of all communications to the Department of Justice and to the various officers thereof, including United States attorneys. He examines and approves, in advance of issue, all orders and regulations promulgated by the Secretary under statutory authority. He represents the Department in all legal proceedings arising under the laws intrusted to the Department for execution, and prosecutes applications for patents by employees of the Department. His duties are performed under the immediate supervision of the Secretary. A great many of our employees get out patents on apparatus pertaining to scientific subjects, many of them being most useful to the Department. The CHAIRMAN. And for whose benefit do they get them out? |