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(Witnesses: Berry, Halvorsen.)

Mr. BERRY. They are sent to the royal and national libraries on the continents of Europe, Asia, and Africa; also to British, Central, and South America, and deposited in the royal and national libraries of those countries. That work is done on behalf of the Library of Congress; and those libraries are supposed, in return, to send the Government publications of their respective countries, which are deposited in the Library of Congress.

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes; so that that is a matter of exchange? Mr. BERRY. A matter of exchange.

The CHAIRMAN. Between the Library of Congress and the other great libraries of the different countries?

Mr. BERRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the whole 53 copies, I suppose, are used for that purpose?

Mr. BERRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And I infer from this schedule that every public document that is published and bound by the Government takes the same course through your department, to a certain extent?

Mr. BERRY. That is the law.

The CHAIRMAN. And you have a uniform number for distribution? Mr. BERRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And they are all distributed, are they?

Mr. BERRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And that, you say, is done by virtue of the provisions of some general statute?

Mr. BERRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are these documents, thus distributed, as a rule bound in cloth or in sheep?

Mr. BERRY. In sheep, mostly; there are some few in cloth, and some in paper.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you had experience in connection with fibraries in the use of books, so as to have an opinion upon the question as to which is the most durable and useful binding-sheep or cloth?

Mr. BERRY. No, sir.

STATEMENT OF J. R. HALVORSEN, ESQ., SUPERINTENDENT OF FOLDING ROOM, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
The CHAIRMAN. You may state what your position is.
Mr. HALVORSEN. Superintendent of the folding room.

The CHAIRMAN. And you may state to the committee in a general way, if you please, what you receive in the folding room in the line of public documents, and especially House documents.

Mr. HALVORSEN. From the Agricultural Department—is that what you mean?

The CHAIRMAN. No; generally; from the Agricultural Department and generally.

Mr. HALVORSEN. And other Departments? I do not know that my memory will carry me out in giving you a full detailed statement. The CHAIRMAN. Just in a general way.

(Witness: Halvorsen.)

Mr. HALVORSEN. We handle possibly between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 documents every year from the different Departments-that is, those that come regularly.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they bound or unbound?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Ours are bound, with the exception of some that come from the Department of Agriculture, such as the Bureau of Soils bulletins, that come to each Member. They are given direct 2,000 copies to each Member from the respective districts represented when a survey has been made in his district.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. HALVORSEN. They are not distributed to others at all, and with the exception of these, other unbound documents go to the Members pro rata. Then we have what is generally known as the commerce and finance monthly summary report and the consular reports from the Department of Commerce and Labor (these are unbound documents), and irrigation papers, professional papers, geological bulletins, that come from the Geological Survey. Some of the bulletins that used to be bound have been reduced in size, such as those that come from the Smithsonian-the ethnological reports-that is, their last bulletins, 31 and 32.

The CHAIRMAN. The great bulk of the publications that are for distribution, subject to the control of Members in the matter of distribution, come through the folding room?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All or substantially all of them?
Mr. HALVORSEN. Well, those already named.

The CHAIRMAN. And with the exceptions that you have named they are all bound either in sheep or in cloth?

Mr. HALVORSEN. They are bound principally in cloth; very few in sheep. The Indian Laws and Treaties were bound in sheep. That is the only document that has come to us of recent years bound in sheep; but outside of that they come in cloth.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been in the folding room? Mr. HALVORSEN. I have been there nearly seven years.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any of the detailed statements of expenditures of the Agriculture Department in the folding room for distribution?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No, sir; they do not come to us.

The CHAIRMAN. They do not come to you. There have been some recent investigations in reference to accumulations in that Department that are uncalled for or undistributed.

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any report bringing that work up to date?

Mr. HALVORSEN. There is nothing particularly. The only way that we are able to govern that matter is under the direction of the committee. Under the last rules that they have established we have the privilege of ordering the full quota that belongs to the whole membership of the House, or we can order such number as, according to our experience, is necessary to meet the demands from time to time.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, if it turns out that in case of a particular document substantially no demand has been made for it, you can reduce the quota or the allotment?

(Witness: Halvorsen.)

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. To such as you think will supply the demand that might naturally exist there for?

Mr. HALVORSEN. That is exactly the case.

The CHAIRMAN. That regulation, however, has only been in force within the last year or so?

Mr. HALVORSEN. That is all; within the past year.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. HALVORSEN. And since then we have been somewhat relieved from that congestion which followed from the accumulation of the full quota that was formerly sent to the House.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you do with the accumulated volumes? Mr. HALVORSEN. We have to hold them until the Members entitled to them call for them.

The CHAIRMAN. He has them to his credit?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. About what have the accumulations aggregated up to the present time, roughly speaking?

Mr. HALVORSEN. You mean of the last-
The CHAIRMAN. Of all the documents.

Mr. HALVORSEN. All the documents?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, that you now have on hand.

Mr. HALVORSEN. I do not think there has been much of a reduction. There are possibly in the neighborhood of 2,000,000, as shown by the last inventory.

The CHAIRMAN. You have, then, substantially 2,000,000 public documents on hand uncalled for?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Not very far from it; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And those have been accumulating for years?
Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they mainly old publications, or do they consist largely of certain documents which have not proved to be of any great value?

Mr. HALVORSEN. They consist principally of duplications, or triplications in some instances; departmental reports which are duplicated in other reports.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. HALVORSEN. Now, take the message and documents, abridging an annual report. That is covered again in part, or at least referred to in others, so that it becomes in a measure a duplication of the regular report of that particular department.

The CHAIRMAN. Has any method been adopted to eliminate that duplication?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I believe so. The report of the National Museum this year is simply a departmental report. The scientific side is left out.

The CHAIRMAN. That is published elsewhere?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir; that is expected to be published else. where; and of course what they intend to do I do not know. They control their own publications, but it is claimed that they are going to publish bulletins on contributions to knowledge.

The CHAIRMAN. That will not cumber up the public documents?

(Witness: Halvorsen.)

Mr. HALVORSEN. Oh, no. The National Museum report this time is about an inch thick. Instead of that it used to be a book as large as that, or even larger [indicating a volume about 2 inches thick].

The CHAIRMAN. Could you give any approximation as to how much duplication there is in this accumulation which you have on hand?

Mr. HALVORSEN. It is hard to say how much duplication there is. The CHAIRMAN. Where is this large accumulation of approximately 2,000,000 volumes stored?

Mr. HALVORSEN. In the different vaults that we have.

The CHAIRMAN. About the Capitol?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Partly in the Capitol and partly at the Annex, near North Capitol street.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that in a building owned by the Government, or does the Government have to rent it?

Mr. HALVORSEN. That we rent.

The CHAIRMAN. Under what Department of the Government would the rental of that building come, for instance? That is, what Department of the Government would have charge of the expenditure of money for that purpose?

Mr. HALVORSEN. The renting is done through the Clerk of the House.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what it costs for rental for that storage purpose?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I am not sure, but I did see an account of it, and the account was rendered, I think, in the Clerk's report.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you ascertain for us, so that you can put it in as an answer to the question?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you rent it through another Department?

Mr. HALVORSEN. It is rented through the Clerk of the House for the purpose of doing the folding for our office, as well as a storage room for some of the documents that we can not store in our vaults in the Capitol.

The CHAIRMAN. But it is used for two purposes--for operative and for storage purposes?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. It is a case of one Department of the Government renting from another Department, then?

The CHAIRMAN. Apparently; but we can find out. Is that the way you understand it?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I could not say as to that-as to how the arrangement is; but I think there is a party, whether he has any connection with the Government or not I could not say but certainly rent is paid out of the contingent fund to this party.

The CHAIRMAN. You can ascertain this amount for us?
Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes; I can ascertain the amount.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be kind enough to ascertain for us the amount, and the party from whom the building is rented, and the circumstances under which the arrangement is made, and submit that as an answer to that question, so that we can put that right into the report?

(Witness: Halvorsen.)

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir. Of course the detailed account of that you might be more able to ascertain through the Clerk of the House. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McDowell?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Or the Chief Clerk, Mr. Browning.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Browning; yes. We can do that, unless you can get it for us.

Mr. HALVORSEN. That will be all right.

The answer is as follows: The rental is $5,000 per annum, and is paid to one Wilbur Nash, of this city, from the contingent fund by the Clerk of the House. The property is owned by Mr. Nash.

The CHAIRMAN. What has been the experience of the folding room in connection with the storage of these public documents, part of them bound in cloth and part in sheep, as to the durability and utility of the several bindings? That is, which lasts the longer?

Mr. HALVORSEN. The more expensive binding naturally lasts the longer. Some of these documents that come to us for Members are not bound as well as they ought to be, but possibly as well bound as the bindery can afford for the money expended.

The CHAIRMAN. The point is, is there any distinction between the sheep and cloth with reference to their durability?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I think so.

Mr. FLOOD. First-class cloth?

The CHAIRMAN. That is, assuming both to be equally well bound. Mr. HALVORSEN. I think that the binding is as good as it can beas well as it can be done, covering the expenses of either one or the other class.

The CHAIRMAN. Which lasts the longer, the sheep or the cloth? Mr. HALVORSEN. I think the sheep will naturally last the longer. Mr. FLOOD. Is it not a fact that the cloth that is used by the Government Printing Office is very inferior in quality?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I am not able to judge as to the quality of the material. I am not a binder, and I am not able to say, but we know that the binding is poorer than it really ought to be, especially on some documents.

Mr. SAMUEL. Have you any authority to dispose of the accumulated documents?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No; we have no authority delegated to us, except to keep the account and meet the demands of the Members on their credits.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not make any sales?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No; we can not do that. The documents are prorated to each district, and at the disposal of each Member representing, respectively.

Mr. SAMUEL. If there are any documents that are old and of no value, you have no way of doing away with them, either by calls from a Member, or by sale?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No, sir. The only way we do about that is this: You have had some experience, perhaps you have heard from our office urging the disposition of some of those documents. We try in every way to get rid of accumulation that is possible, without imposing too much on the generosity of the Members. We want to get them off our hands.

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