(Witness: Grayson.) House Miscellaneous Document No. 122, Fiftieth Congress, first session House Executive Document No. 104, Fifty-first Congress, first session House Executive Document No. 35, Fifty-first Congress, second session House Executive Document No. 55, Fifty-second Congress, first session House Executive Document No. 14, Fifty-third Congress, second session 662.55 800.25 772. 15 1,091. 85 1, 697.80 1, 465. 40 1, 519. 35 1, 782. 30 1, 747. 10 1,912. 10 2, 014. 25 2,227. 10 House Executive Document No. 8, Fifty-third Congress, third session. Very truly, yours, 3, 542. 20 3,873. 20 CHAS. A. STILLINGS, Public Printer. Hon. C. E. LITTLEFIELD, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. The following resolution was also adopted, conferring additional authority upon the Committee on Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture, March 19, 1906: Resolved, That the Committee on Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture be authorized to have such printing and binding done as may be required in the transaction of its business. That is found on page 3976 of the Congressional Record, volume 40, Part IV, Fifty-ninth Congress, first session. STATEMENT OF MR. JOEL GRAYSON, AN EMPLOYEE OF THE DOCUMENT ROOM OF THE HOUSE. (The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Do you have charge of the document room, Mr. Grayson? Mr. GRAYSON. No; Mr. Sumner has, but I have charge of it when he is not here, all through the summer. He is the superintendent, but I have charge of the document part of the work. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been there? Mr. GRAYSON. I have been in the document room since 1881. I have been in the Government service since 1875. The CHAIRMAN. Calling your attention to Document 448, "Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture," I want to inquire how many copies of such document are printed by the Printing Office? Mr. GRAYSON. Of this'the regular number is 1,854. The CHAIRMAN. That would cover documents of that character during the last session of Congress and during the preceding Congresses up, say, to the Forty-ninth Congress? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How many copies of such documents are forwarded to or deposited with the document room of the House? a The total cost, including all binding, etc., was $5,305.96. (Witness: Grayson.) Mr. GRAYSON. Four hundred and twenty copies of a House document; 360 of a Senate document. The CHAIRMAN. The "Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture" is, however, a House document, is it not? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; but it does not necessarily follow that all the expenditures are House documents. Some are referred to the Senate. Whichever body gets them first prints them. The CHAIRMAN. Does the Senate committee get any report from the Department of Agriculture, so far as you know? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir; I do not think they do. The CHAIRMAN. So that the public documents which consist of "Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture" would be House documents? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And they would be reports that would be referred to the Committee on Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture and then printed? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how they have been printed-under general order or by special direction of any officer of the House? Mr. GRAYSON. I think they have been printed under a general order. There was a law for it, at least up to that time. I do not know whether that law has been changed or not. The CHAIRMAN. Could you give the committee any idea of the extent of the use that is made of this public document? That is, how many are taken out and distributed? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not think, Mr. Littlefield, that we have calls for over 15 or 20 at any time. The CHAIRMAN. And from whom do those calls mainly come? Mr. GRAYSON. Mostly from the Department, or from newspaper people who are trying to get something. The CHAIRMAN. Your judgment, then, is that 15 or 20 copies would be practically all the use that has ever been made of this document since the Forty-ninth Congress? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. What is done with the balance of the 420 copies that are filed in the document room? Mr. GRAYSON. Up to last year we got the full number. Now, this year, as you will see there [submitting printed tabulation], we get 50 copies. The CHAIRMAN. That is, since 1905 you get only 50 copies of the detailed "Expenditures in the Agricultural Department? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. This shows it. It is 1,854. I thought I had it 1,850. The usual total number is 1,854.. Mr. SAMUEL. That is the number printed? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. We get 50 copies now where we used to get 420. The CHAIRMAN. Prior to the last session of Congress you were getting 420 copies? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; of everything that came in. The CHAIRMAN. Four hundred and twenty copies out of a total of 1,854? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. (Witness: Grayson.) The CHAIRMAN. And now you are getting in the document room 50 copies out of a total of 1,100 ? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. So that there is now being printed as a House document 1,100 copies of the detailed statement of "Expenditures in the Department of Agriculture?" Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you say there have never been more than 15 or 20 calls for that document since the Forty-ninth Congress? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; and sometimes there has been no call, unless it is from some newspaper men. Last year, for instance, there was an inquiry in regard to it-in regard to Mount Weather. That was gotten up for the newspapers. There is a little demand for that. The CHAIRMAN. What is done with the copies not called for? Mr. GRAYSON. Under the act of Congress, under the direction of the Committee on Accounts, we have authority to go into this matter. It is thrown out, and put in the waste paper and sold, and the money put in the Treasury. The CHAIRMAN. That is, copies over 15 or 20 are sold for waste paper? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; it goes into the waste paper sale. Mr. FLOOD. You say prior to the past year they printed 1,854 copies and last year only 1,100? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. Mr. FLOOD. Who ordered that reduction? Mr. GRAYSON. It was brought about in this way: I went to the Committee on Printing and complained of this stuff being printed and being left down in the room there rotting and The CHAIRMAN. You called their attention to it as being perfectly useless? Mr. GRAYSON (continuing). Yes; they saw it themselves, packed away in the vaults and water getting in on it. It would come in there one day and be thrown out the next. It was absolutely useless. They got together and formed this table [indicating printed tabulation]. The CHAIRMAN. And reduced the numbers? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. They said we could make an order, if we found that any document was called for, and they could print it and put it back on the press. Mr. FLOOD. Did you state to them that only 15 or 20 copies were called for? Mr. GRAYSON. I think I put down the number of each document in blue lead pencil. Mr. FLOOD. Why, then, did they still order so large a number? Mr. GRAYSON. They did not interfere with the reserve at all. That would be interfering with books that belong to you Members of Congress. It would take a law to do that, just the same as taking them out of the folding room. The committee is a joint committee. They have power to change, but I do not think if it was insisted on they could cut any of it out. It was simply done to save money. The CHAIRMAN. As I understand it, there has been no affirmative change of law, but the committee have undertaken to make a regulation and reduce the amount of printing? (Witness: Grayson.) Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. Mr. FLOOD. Do you know what the difference of cost would be of printing 1,854 copies and 1,100? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. Mr. SAMUEL. Are those documents placed to the credit of each Member pro rata? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir; they are not furnished unless they are valuable. If each Member would send in and say, "I want my "Expenditures of the Agricultural Department," we could not supply it; but we take what has been called for before as a precedent to go by. Mr. FLOOD. As I understand, a copy of this is sent to each Member and Senator? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir; only 50 copies are furnished to the docu ment room. Mr. FLOOD. No; but 1,100 are printed altogether. Mr. GRAYSON. That is the reserve. The CHAIRMAN. I have before me the document which you have presented, entitled "Regulations of the Joint Committee on Printing, making effective public resolution 14, Fifty-ninth Congress, to prevent unnecessary printing and binding and to correct evils in the present method of distribution of public documents, approved March 30, 1906," and the schedule annexed to those regulations with reference to the detailed expenditure of appropriations in the Department of Agriculture provides as follows-first in relation to "up-number." Let me inquire as to what that signifies. Mr. GRAYSON. That is the unbound documents that come to the Capitol. The CHAIRMAN. This schedule provides under the head of "Upnumber" as follows, in connection with the statement of the expenditures of the Agricultural Department: House document room, 50: that is, against 420 prior to that regulation? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Clerk of House, 15, which is the same as before; Senate document room, 50, which is the same as before; Secretary of the Senate, 5, which is an increase of 2; State Department, none; Executive Mansion, 2, the same as before; Library of Congress, 5, which is the same as before; superintendent of documents, 2, which is the same as before; legations, 34, which is the same as before; Executive Departments and files, 62, which is the same as before; making a total of 225 of "up-numbers," as against 724, the previous total of "up-numbers." Is that correct? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. I find in addition in this schedule, under the title of "Reserve," the following numbers provided for: 502, superintendent of documents, depositaries, the same as before Mr. GRAYSON. He will tell you about that himself. That is to send out to libraries. The CHAIRMAN (continuing). 53 to the Smithsonian Institution, foreign exchanges, the same as before; 5 to the House and Senate libraries, the same as before-no, 5 for the Senate library, as against 15, and 5 for the House library, as against 15 before; 9 to the Library of Congress, the same as before; 1 to the State Department, the same as before; a total of 575, as against a previous total of 595. (Witness: Grayson.) Under the title of "unbound," 300 under the head of "Public Printer (held for binding)," as against 497, and none for the Library of Congress, as against 38 before; making a total usual number under the existing regulation of 1,100, as against 1,854, and a total reserve under the existing_regulations of 875, as against a total reserve prior thereto of 1,130. Is that a correct statement of the regulations? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir; that is right there. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other statements of expenditures from any of the other Departments that are printed as public documents, so far as you know? Mr. GRAYSON. All of them furnish statements, and the different bureaus furnish them, too. The CHAIRMAN. Are they all printed as public documents? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. For instance, does the Department of State furnish a list of expenditures similar to that of the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And the Treasury Department, and the War Department, and the Navy Department, and the Post-Office Department, and the Interior Department, and the Department of Justice? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And on public buildings? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not think so. The CHAIRMAN. But with the exception of public buildings these other Departments furnish a report similar to that of the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. The report of the Department of Justice, so far as the expenditures are concerned, appears in the annual report of the Attorney-General? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. In the Navy Department prior to this regulation they printed the same number of copies-1,854-and they are now printing 1,100. Is that correct? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you are getting the same number under the new regulations of Navy Department expenditures as you get of the Agricultural Department? Mr. GRAYSON. We get just the same all the way through. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any more call for the Navy Department expenditures than for the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not think so. I think it is about the same. The CHAIRMAN. Then all these Departments to which I have called your attention submit substantially the same kind of lists of detailed expenditures? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And there is no more use made of the lists from the other Departments, as a rule, than of the list furnished by the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That is according to your recollection? |