What I was going to say, it is imperative that something be done in this country about getting more young ladies to come into the nursing profession. We feel that, with the name of Walter Reed, and if we can have a school out there, we plan to have 2 years from university anywhere in this country, the last 2 years at Walter Reed. The news will get all over this country. Most schools other than ours will have just one university training ladies, you see. We will train from the universities of California, the University of Texas; it makes no difference the University of Mississippi. The last 2 years at bedside will be at Walter Reed. We think that will focus a great amount of attention, not only in the Army and Army nursing but also nursing in general over this country. Even as of now the news has leaked out that we are planning this; we have had over 900 applications for 135 spaces that we plan.

That is all we can take, if this is allowed. We feel that it would also bolster the tremendous shortage, eventually, that we will have in the Army Nurse Corps. As of today, we have 3,001 nurses and only 830 of them are Regular Army, even though we have 2,500 Regular Army spaces. We lose between 300 and 500 a year. We get in around 400 a year through the Army student nurse program and volunteers, so we don't make much money each year.

The need, the overall need, of the Army is for 5,000 nurses. We make up the difference by hiring civilian nurses. We have 1,600 civilian nurses today on our books.

Senator STENNIS. Let me ask you, General, doesn't that serve your purpose? How does it fail to serve your purpose? What is the objection to having a good number of that type?

General HEATON. The civilian nurses?

Senator STENNIS. The civilian nurses; yes.

General HEATON. If we have more civilian nurses we take them from the civilian communities, they are very resentful of our taking, because they are very short in their own civilian hospitals, and I don't blame them at all.

Also, if we took more civilian nurses, then most of the Army nurses would be constantly overseas, because we have got to send nurses overseas to our troops in Vietnam, in Thailand, Europe, Korea; and, if we have all of the United States filled mostly with civilians, that means there will be no shuttle back and forth for the Army Nurse Corps into the United States.

Senator STENNIS. Will your program really increase the number of nurses, or will this just have a special appeal for a supercourse for those that are already in?

General HEATON. We feel, Senator, that eventually it will prove very effective to augmenting our Army Nurses Corps by, as I pointed out, bringing to the attention of the young ladies of this country the need of nurses. We feel that it would be very effective indeed.

Senator STENNIS. I know you have got to have some nurses in the service whom you can control in any way you wish, but the services have been getting schoolteachers. You don't set up a special college to train schoolteachers. They have to go to Germany and other places to teach the children.

General HEATON. General Shuler mentioned that this would be a degree school, Senator. We went to a degree school for several reasons. That is a 4-year course, with a bachelor of science degree. Last

year in this country, 1,500 young ladies who applied for degree schools, a degree school in nursing, couldn't get in because the slots were all filled. There was a need to train 1,500 more young ladies in this country who had applied for degree schools in nursing.

It is very much in demand today. You will recall, you have two nursing courses. You have a 3-year course that gives you an R.N.a registered nurse or a 4-year course that gives you a degree-a bachelor of science degree. More and more young ladies today are aspiring for a degree course. That is what convinced us as to the necessity and the worth of going to this degree course-to help the Nation out, as a matter of fact-because that is a lot of young ladies-1,500—and there are going to be more.

Senator STENNIS. Assuming you get this set up as you wish, and you bring these young ladies in to get a degree, what obligation are they going to have, then, to the Army?

General HEATON. Three years they pay back. And, being trained mostly in the Army, we feel that we will retain them much longer than we retain today.

Senator STENNIS. I am not against this. I just know we have so many of these programs. Has this been cleared or coordinated with an overall group that looks into this problem of nursing as a whole? General HEATON. The National League of Nursing has cleared it; yes, sir. That is the educational branch of the American Nursing Association.

Senator STENNIS. Is there any group within the Government that is responsible for these different Government programs in nursing? Have they cleared this?

General HEATON. It has been cleared through the Defense Depart

ment.

Senator STENNIS. And the Budget Bureau, too?

General HEATON. Secretary Vance is very enthusiastic about it, and the Bureau of the Budget cleared it.

Senator STENNIS. With all deference to Secretary Vance, I don't imagine he knows as much about the whole picture as we do. We are asked for money for various groups, and they all have merit.

We would like to know if there has been coordination of this program by some Government agency that is not directly interested in this particular item?

General HEATON. I should imagine, with clearance by the Bureau of the Budget, that they would coordinate it with other branches of the Government.

Senator STENNIS. They are supposed to.

General HEATON. I don't know.

Senator STENNIS. I don't know if they can every time. Mr. Nease, write the Bureau of the Budget and ask them what they did, specifically, toward looking into this program to coordinate it. Senator, do you have any questions?

Senator SALTONSTALL. I have one question, General. I realize the shortage of nurses in civilian life, as well as in the military life.

You have said that these girls would have a 3-year obligation to the Army. That is simply a moral obligation, isn't it?

General HEATON. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. So that, if they get married or quit, you have no hold over them, except through the moral obligation?

General HEATON. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. What is the difference today between a girl's pay in the military and a girl's pay in a civilian hospital?

General HEATON. I wouldn't know, Senator, what for instance Peter Brigham or Massachusetts General pays, but I imagine it would be much higher up there than say a comparable hospital in a smaller community with of course much less prestige than those two hospitals. I am sure it varies right much between hospitals and even environments.

Senator SALTONSTALL. The great question is, as the chairman brought out, how long you are going to be able to keep these girls in the service. If you can hold them for 3 years you have got something, but I was just curious to know whether you will be able to hold them for 3 years?

General HEATON. I think by and large we can. We figure to graduate 100 out of the 135 that we take in. The dropout ranges between 22 and 35 percent in the other degree schools of this country, dropouts due to many factors, academic and otherwise.

So we figure 100 of the 135 will graduate from Walter Reed and the university with whom we make the contract.

Of that 100 that we hold after 3 years, we feel that with the training in the Army, we can indoctrinate them much more as to Army methods and esprit de corps than the complete training in civilian hospitals that they have now.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator STENNIS. I notice one statement here. You say this project is required to provide housing, administrative space needed to reestablish the Army School of Nursing. The shortage of fully trained nurses in the Army is a reflection of the shortage of qualified nursing personnel throughout the United States. The steady decline in the last 8 years constitutes one of the most serious problems.

That decline means the numerical strength, I suppose?

General HEATON. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. You are not going to put in writing here the decline in quality, I am sure?

General HEATON. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. Well, we have asked a good many questions about this because we are interested in the subject, which is so vital, and I understand your strong interest. You have an idea of creating a greater interest not only for the Army nursing but for nursing generally by having this top school.

General HEATON. Yes, sir. I think it will reflect to the good of civilian as well as military, Senator, I really do.

Senator STENNIS. All right, thank you, General. What is your next item, General Shuler?

General SHULER. I have two other items.

Senator STENNIS. In the medical?

General SHULER. In the medical category, sir. On page 215 is a replacement of the steam supply system at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. The present steam system which provides our heat and domestic hot water to the troop area is over 20 years old, sir, and it is very deteriorated. Actually it is 8 to 12 feet underground, and the cold ground water seeps through the conduit to the steam lines and

produces steam which passes laterally to the nearest manholes and we have a very bad situation here.

This is to upgrade this and correct the deficiency, sir.

Senator STENNIS. All right, any questions, Senator? Next item please.

FORT HUACHUCA, ARIZ.

General SHULER. The next item, sir, is at Fort Huachuca and is on page 185. This is a request for our other new hospital at this isolated installation. This post, sir, houses the U.S. electronic proving ground and it will provide medical service for inpatients, outpatients, and dental care. This will be a 110-bed hospital and will replace facilities now operating in 51 separate World War II-type cantonment buildings that are spread over a large area. We intend to demolish these old buildings which are a firetrap, when this is completed, sir.

This is a very isolated station. It is 90 miles to the nearest town of any size which is Tucson, Ariz., so we have to provide pretty complete service in this hospital.

In addition, the cost index here, sir, is 1.2, so it is 20 percent more costly than construction in the Washington, D.C., area.

Senator STENNIS. Do you have anything else, General Shuler? General SHULER. No, sir; except that we feel pretty strongly that, it being isolated and having a bad plant there, we need a new one. Senator STENNIS. General Heaton?

General HEATON. This is a very important post, as you know, Senator. There are very important people out there. I have been out there myself and all over this area. As General Shuler states, this is really a firetrap of the first order. It is imperative that we have a modern hospital in this vicinity because of the extreme isolation. As General Shuler mentioned, it is 90 miles from Tucson and there is nothing between, I assure you. It is very isolated. We feel there is a tremendous need for this construction.

Senator SALTONSTALL. How many troops, how many military people are stationed around there?

General SHULER. There are 6,613 personnel there, sir, of which 514 are officers and 4,120 are enlisted personnel.

Senator SALTONSTALL. So this will provide a new 110-bed hospital, for 6,000 people?

General SHULER. The dependents, sir, would be added to that. They are entitled to care too, sir.

Senator STENNIS. And you have civilians employed. How many? General SHULER. 1,843, sir.

Senator STENNIS. They are included in your 6,000?

General SHULER. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. That is included in the 6,000?

General SHULER. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. How many dependents do you have? Let's see how many we are building the hospital for.

General SHULER. The military dependents, sir, are 6,846. There are 366 retired military personnel in the area that the hospital would serve in addition.

Senator STENNIS. Your dependents do not run 2 to 1. The rule of thumb is 2 to 1, isn't it? What is the mission?

I remember Huachuca. We have been pouring money in there in the last several years for everything. A hospital certainly won't be out of line, but I thought it was more or less a temporary setup there. General SHULER. No sir. It used to be a temporary station, but it is a permanent station. It is our principal proving ground for electronic tests of material, and it performs engineer development tests, participates in service tests of communication equipment, combat surveillance, avionics, and it is really our electronic proving ground, sir-where we test out all of our electronic complex equipment.

It is a permanent station. Actually it was established in 1882. Senator STENNIS. But reestablished a few years ago?

General SHULER. As a permanent station, sir, but it has been temporary in between.

Senator STENNIS. Senator, do you have any questions?

Senator SALTONSTALL. One question, General. I notice these dental chairs through these various hospitals, and it seems to me there is an enormous number of chairs. I can't visualize 17 dental chairs set up beside each other. I was just figuring out if everybody went twice a year, it would be 12,000 cases, 17 chairs, each chair would take care of 700 people. If you divide 700 people into the total hours, do you need all those chairs? I was just curious.

General HEATON. That is a very good question, Senator. I could get a commercial in here for the Army Dental Corps. They are now practicing very extensively preventive dentistry. Many patients make repeated visits and receive numerous treatments. These 17 dental chairs are required to serve the military personnel and their dependents.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I have heard of it.

General HEATON. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. The Harvard Dental School started it. General HEATON. Yes, sir, they did, that is true. That is to their credit. That is the reason why there is an increase in dental chairs in these areas, particularly like Fort Huachuca where there is complete dental care, dependents, and otherwise.

For instance, Walter Reed does not have complete dental care. All the dependents go to civilian dentists. They take only those on active duty. When you see a remote place like Fort Huachuca requiring this number of dental chairs if can be assumed that the dental chairs are necessary for providing dental care to military personnel and their dependents.

Senator SALTONSTALL. There is no direct basis on which you establish the number of chairs?

General HEATON. Dental chairs are provided according to the military strength served.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Do you just make an estimate?

General HEATON. It depends upon the strength of the base and the environmental situation of the post.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator STENNIS. All right, is there anything else from the Army Medical Service?

General SHULER. These are all, sir, that the General would be concerned with.

Senator STENNIS. General, we appreciate your attendance here. Your testimony has been very helpful to us. We are all interested in