of career they had chosen for themselves. Their character and disposition were made up for that type of career, and they were in there because of a desire and scientific facilities to carry out the ambition they have. I am somewhat amazed that you find it difficult to hold people and must hold them against their will. I would kind of hesitate to do that except in circumstances amounting to war. I suppose these circumstances do amount to war in the full sense, but I hate the enforced servitude, and I would not think it would be a very healthy situation for the Public Health Service or any other service to have to force people against their will to continue in the Service. I would not want the Service to depend upon that kind of a situation. Dr. GILLIS. We do not like it either, sir. Ideally if we could have everybody volunteers, that would be the way to get the best possible job done. But when you have an emergency with marked shortages of personnel, and in the health professions, where the outside incomes are so remunerative at the present time-the Department of Commerce made a recent survey of the incomes of private physicians; and they were netting over $11,000 a year for general practitioners, and the specialists were somewhat in the realm of around $14,000 or $15,000 a year. With the increase in cost of living and the pressures on our officers with families and such, although they would like to stay in the Public Health Service as a career, they find difficulty in making ends meet, in educating their children, and such. So naturally they are looking for greener pastures. Where you have an emergency situation and have to order people, for instance, over to southeast Asia, to Indochina, Indonesia, Burma and such, they naturally would much prefer to be practicing in their home town than to have to do that sort of thing. In peacetime if they felt strongly enough about not taking a particular assignment, they would resign. But of course in peacetime there would not be so many. undesirable assignments. We have to be able to hold them if we are going to get that job done. We are participating very actively in the cold war in our activities with the Mutual Security Agency and the Technical Cooperation Administration and the Office of Inter-American Affairs as well as the Coast Guard, Department of Justice, and so on. Mr. PICKETT. Dr. Gillis, what is the highest pay in the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service? Dr. GILLIS. The highest paid person is the Surgeon General. He receives the same pay as a major general of the other services. Mr. PICKETT. What does that amount to? Dr. GILLIS. It is approximately $14,500. Mr. PICKETT. He would be one of those affected by the failure to extend this act. Is that right? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. Mr. PICKETT. And he could quit if he wanted to? Dr. GILLIS. Of course we seriously doubt that a man who has had 20 years' service is going to resign. Mr. PICKETT. I doubt that, too, especially if he is drawing $14,500 a year. But at the same time, if you did not have this statute upon which to base his continuance in service, he could quit. Is that right? Dr. GILLIS. I am sure he has had better offers than $14,500. But he has certainly dedicated himself to public health. Mr. PICKETT. The point I get at is he cannot quit now if he wanted to. Dr. GILLIS. That is right, sir. Mr. PICKETT. But he could quit if you did not have this statute extended. Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. Mr. PICKETT. What are your grades in pay of these other fellows, the so-called "run of the mill," not the Surgeon General, but the rest of them? What are their grades and what is their pay, from the maximum to the minimum? Dr. GILLIS. The second lieutenant, our grade corresponding to second lieutenant, starts with a basic pay of $213.75 per month plus $42 for subsistence; and, if he is married, he gets $75 per month for quarters. If he is single, he gets only $60 per month for quarters. Mr. PICKETT. How many second lieutenants do you have in the service? Dr. GILLIS. We have 91, sir. We do not commission medical officers, dental officers, sanitary engineers, veterinarians, or scientists as second lieutenants. The lowest grade for them is first lieutenant. So, the majority of our second lieutenants-I beg your pardon; we do commission some sanitary engineers as second lieutenants, some nurses as second lieutenants, some dietitians as second lieutenants, and some therapists as second lieutenants. Then the next grade, the assistant grade, corresponding to Army first lieutenant; their basic pay is $249.38 plus $42 for subsistence; and they get, with dependents, $82.50 for quarters. If they do not have dependents, it is $67.50 for quarters. Mr. PICKETT. That takes care of the lowest two ranks. Under the chief of the service, what is the next rank below him and the one below that, and what is their pay? Dr. GILLIS. Below the major general? Mr. PICKETT. Yes, sir. Dr. GILLIS. The next is brigadier general. We only have seven major generals and seven brigadier generals. Mr. PICKETT. Then you have a bunch of colonels, I presume? Mr. PICKETT. What is their pay? Dr. GILLIS. The colonel's basic pay is $570 a month, plus $42 for subsistence, plus $120 for quarters if he has dependents or $105 for quarters if he has no dependents. Mr. PICKETT. You talk about the basic pay in each of these grades. Is there some increase in that pay based on tenure in service? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. However, a colonel does not get an increase in pay until he has had over 16 years' longevity credit. Mr. PICKETT. It generally conforms in principle to what is comparable in the armed services? Dr. GILLIS. It is the same pay exactly; yes, sir. Mr. PICKETT. What was the highest grade in your commissioned service to which a uniform allowance is paid? Dr. GILLIS. The highest grade is corresponding to Army captain. Just the three lowest grades-captain, first lieutenant, and second lieu tenant. Mr. PICKETT. Then a failure to extend this act would affect only those three lowest grades-captain, first and second lieutenant-insofar as the uniform allowance is concerned. Dr. GILLIS. That is right, sir. Mr. PICKETT. The amount involved would be only $250 a year. Is that right? Dr. GILLIS. Only $250 payable once only. Mr. PICKETT. That would be just $250 when they get into the service and that is the only time they ever get that allowance? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. It is estimated you cannot outfit yourself today for $250. Mr. PICKETT. I know that you could not do it 5 years ago and probably never will be able to do it, at least in the foreseeable future. But, at the same time, $250 is the end of it, one time and that is all? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. Mr. PICKETT. How many people do you have on foreign duty in the Public Health Service? Dr. GILLIS. I will have to get the exact figure for you, sir, for the record; but offhand we have, for instance, in point 4, 23; Mutual Security, 70-which would be 93; Inter-American Affairs, 13, which would be 106. Then we have, I am sure, 25 or 30 more on other types of activities overseas. Mr. PICKETT. Would 150, you think, cover the outside number? Dr. GILLIS. I will have to get that exact figure: someplace between 150 and possibly 175 or 200. [NOTE. See memorandum, p. 55.] Mr. PICKETT. You think 200 would cover it, then? Dr. GILLIS. Actually we are being called on for many additional people at the present for Technical Cooperation Administration, Inter-American Affairs, and Mutual Security Agency. Mr. PICKETT. Is their pay all chargeable to the Public Health Service? Dr. GILLIS. No, sir. When they are detailed to other agencies, the Public Health Service is reimbursed by the other agencies. Mr. PICKETT. How many people do you have in the Pacific area, Southwest Pacific? You mentioned Indochina, Burma, and some other places. Dr. GILLIS. I would have to get that for you, sir. [NOTE.-This information appears following oral testimony of Dr. Gillis, p. 55.] The Mutual Security Agency operates primarily in the Far East, and the only countries which they operate in outside of southeast Asia at the present time are Turkey and Greece. Mr. PICKETT. It would be very interesting to know how many of those people were assigned there without wanting to go and how many of them went voluntarily to those areas. Dr. GILLIS. It is a difficult figure to get. You order somebody there, and they may not feel strongly about going; but, nevertheless, being a good soldier, they go and do not kick. Then again you order somebody and Mr. PICKETT. Are they given additional pay and allowances when they serve on foreign duty like that? Dr. GILLIS. It varies with the country, sir. The purpose of the allowances is to give them an income so that they can live the same as they would on their income Stateside; in other words, depending on the difference in cost of living between the United States and the country to which assigned. Mr. PICKETT. Does the converse of that apply when you order them to a place where it does not cost them as much to live as in the United States? Do you reduce their income? Dr. GILLIS. There is no change from what they received in the United States. Mr. FORRESTER. Is there anything further on that point? Mr. BURRUS. For the record, I would like to state that item is 107. It is 1 (a) (9) in the bill, and the code citation is 42 U. S. C. 213, 214, and 217. I do not know whether Dr. Gillis was also commenting on section 212 (c) of the same act, which is on page 23 of the document, and which is in the bill, 1 (a) (34). That is the authority of the Public Health Service in time of war to recall to duty an officer retired for age or length of service. I think you mentioned it, but is there something more you would like to say about that authority? Dr. GILLIS. I would like to mention the probability that we are going to have to be able to recall some retired officers to duty if we are going to take care of our needs, which are increasing all the time, especially in those cases where the retired officers' training and experience and health would make them suitable for foreign or domestic assignments. Mr. BOGGS. What section is that? Dr. GILLIS. It is on page 23, sir, 1 (a) (34), at the bottom of page 23. Mr. FORRESTER. Just what does that authorize now? Explain that to us. Dr. GILLIS. We have a statutory retirement age of 64, and this would enable the Surgeon General to recall an officer, who was in good enough physical condition and had the training and experience for a particular type of job that we were being directed to do, to active duty for such time as was deemed necessary. Mr. PICKETT. How many men are now in service based on that authority, Doctor? Dr. GILLIS. We have none. Mr. PICKETT. How many are you going to recall in the month of March? Dr. GILLIS. We may have to call several, sir, for this reason. The Federal Civil Defense Administration has requested that we staff the medical side of their regional offices, and they want mature, welltrained experienced Public Health men to do the job. We do not know where else we are going to look for them. Mr. PICKETT. You say you do not have the authority to furnish that personnel by reason of the expiration of your power to recall those retired personnel? You will not furnish Civil Defense with doctors; will you? Dr. GILLIS. I do not know where we would get them. Mr. PICKETT. You could get them under this program, at least? Dr. GILLIS. We probably could get one or two; but, to staff 9 or 10 regional offices, we do not expect to be able to recruit that many from outside. Mr. PICKETT. How many persons are going to be required to staff those regional offices for civil defense? Dr. GILLIS. They are asking for either 9 or 10. I forget offhand how many offices they have. They have asked us for 9 or 10 senior medical officers, as it were, with Public Health background, administrative experience, and such, to staff their regional offices. Mr. PICKETT. If you do not furnish the personnel, Civil Defense will have to get them on their own? Dr. GILLIS. The reason they are asking us is they have been trying to get them on their own and have not been successful. Mr. PICKETT. Have you solicited retired personnel for volunteers already to see how many will come back in voluntarily rather than on the involuntary recall basis? Dr. GILLIS. It is voluntary, but the thing is that the Surgeon General would not be able to recall them. We would not be able to legally employ them without this authority. I will put it that way. Mr. PICKETT. You mean you have got a mandatory 64-year-old retirement provision? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. Mr. PICKETT. When he gets to the age of 64, whatever years in the service he has put in, he has just got to go, period? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir. Mr. PICKETT. Whether he is in sound mind and body and best of intentions and wants to go on working, he has got to quit? Dr. GILLIS. Yes, sir, under the present law. Mr. PICKETT. That is not directed just at the Public Health Service, Dr. Gillis. I want you to know that. But I think it is a very fine thing to have an optional retirement program, and probably such program ought to have been put in vogue many years before it was. But to tell you or any other man that you have to quit just because you reached a certain age, I think, is just clear out of character with the basic principles which the people who founded this country established when they came here. Mr. FORRESTER. I certainly concur with that statement, but Dr. Gillis did not have any more to do with that than you and I did. Is there something further you want to say? Dr. GILLIS. No, sir. (The following was subsequently supplied for the record by Dr. Gillis.) Miss VELMA SMEDLEY, FEDERAL SECURITY AGENCY, House Committee on Judiciary, Washington, D. C. DEAR MISS SMEDLEY: As you will remember, I testified before subcommittee No. 4 on February 28, 1952, with respect to section 1 (a) (9) and (34) of House Joint Resolution 386. During my testimony the subcommittee requested that I supply them with the number of officers, by country, on assignment outside the continental limits of the United States. Attached hereto is the requested information. I would also like to call your attention to the fact that we expect to be called upon for an additional 350 officers for overseas assignments before the end of the 1953 fiscal year. If the committee is desirous of obtaining any additional information, I shall be glad to comply promptly with any such request. Sincerely yours, EUGENE A. GILLIS, Office of the Surgeon General. |