Senator BYRD. Do you think class no. 1 should all be confirmed by the Senate? Mr. GULICK. There may be exceptions within that group, but there will be not less than 200, perhaps, of major policy posts. Now, coming to the second group, without having examined the detailed functions of the individuals there, I would say that practically all of those would come under the classified service, and would not be subject to confirmation by the Senate. As was pointed out a moment ago, the major group involved is the first, second, and third-class postmasters. Those are business men, men managing business establishments and have no place in the political structure. The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you this. It may be a good and strong argument for the postmasters, but how about the United States attorneys? Mr. GULICK. There may be exceptions there. We discussed that with men who have formerly occupied the positions of the United States attorneys. We have discussed it with those who have been in administrative positions, we have discussed it with judges, and it was the feeling among these people, the feeling that I got from them, that most of the positions could be filled under a career service, under the merit system; but there were occasional positions of the other type, and that is why, in the program which we outlined, and in the program as I see it in section 207 of your Senate bill, there is an opportunity for the President to classify those positions which are genuinely policy-determining in character and to take those out of the civil service. The CHAIRMAN. I do not propose to consume time, but I do not think the appointment of a United States attorney by the President, with confirmation by the Senate, would have any serious fault if there is a position requiring policy-making power. Mr. GULICK. Is the policy made by them, Senator, or is the policy made in the Department of Justice? The CHAIRMAN. On the contrary, the question of policy is left wholly in the United States attorneys. It must be so, because in the 48 States the Department of Justice refers to the United States attorney various subjects for determination. There is only one item there, and it includes 91 appointees. I do not want to take up any time with it because I do not think there is any serious consideration of the proposal to put them under classified civil service. Mr. GULICK. The fact that they are included here does not mean necessarily that they have to be put there. The CHAIRMAN. Now what others are there? The collectors of internal revenue. Do you make any recommendation that they be included, the collectors in the States, is that right? Mr. GULICK. Yes, sir. Senator BYRD. You mean excluded? Mr. GULICK. The United States marshals. Senator BYRD. They are excluded. Mr. GULICK. Excluded from confirmation, and appointed under civil service. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Senator BYRD. Group 3. Mr. GULICK. To be excluded from civil service. They are now under some type of merit system, which we would like to see extended upward, but not under formal classification. Senator BYRD. You mean they would be excluded from confirmation? Mr. GULICK. No; they would be continued with confirmation. The CHAIRMAN. Just a minute; I do not think you got the Senator's question. You mean the appointment of ambassadors and ministers, Foreign Service, officers of insular possessions would still be left to appointment by the President and confirmation by the Senate? Mr. GULICK. That is correct. Senator BYRD. Group 4? Mr. GULICK. Group 4 would remain as they now are. They have a merit system now under which there is no serious difficulty. Group 5 the Congress would confirm, as they are now. Senator BYRD. The effect of your recommendation is to remove some in group 2? Mr. GULICK. Primarily group 2, with some slight changes in group 1. It therefore affects approximately 15,000 positions. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will have to adjourn until tomorrow, and I am going to ask the committee to meet at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. Dr. Merriam, will you be here tomorrow morning? Mr. MERRIAM. Yes; Senator. The CHAIRMAN. I would like you to make a statement about the national resources planning board. Mr. MERRIAM. Yes; Senator. (The papers heretofore referred to are as follows:) TABLE I.-Number of Federal employees, Dec. 31, 1936 TABLE II.—Distribution of employees in the executive branch according to method of appointment, Dec. 31, 1936 1 Includes all independent agencies established after the creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (Jan. 22, 1932). 2 Includes first-, second-, and third-class postmasters, commissioned officers in the Foreign Service, Foreign Commerce Service, Public Health Service, and Coast and Geodetic Survey, and an estimated 5,000 unclassified laborers employed subject to examination under Presidential regulations. 3 Includes employees of the Tennessee Valley Authority, and of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board and Home Owners' Loan Corporation covered by the letter of the President, Aug. 25, 1936. Includes employees on emergency relief appropriation pay rolls. TABLE III.-Growth of the Federal civil service, 1883-1936 1 1 Figures from United States Civil Service Commission, the Classified Executive Civil Service of the United States Government, form 2909, March 1933. ↑ Loss due to reduction of force. Period covered from Mar. 4, 1932, to June 30, 1936. TABLE IV.-Appointments made by the President and confirmed by the Senate Members of boards, independent commissions, and heads of 109 Comptroller General and Assistant Comptroller General.. Auditor General and Assistant Auditor General Examiners in 10 215 Appraisers of merchandise_ Collectors of internal revenue. Superintendent, assayers, and directors of the Mint__. United States marshals_ United States attorneys. Registers and receivers of the General Land Office. 14, 208 49 1 7 1 64 9 93 91 27 121 14, 671 54 691 11 756 TABLE IV.-Appointments made by the President and confirmed by the Senate-Con. COMPARISON OF THE ROBINSON BILL (S. 2700) AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE PRESIDENT'S COMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE MANAGEMENT Efficiency research. Personnel. Planning. III. Civil service: Do. No new law needed. Section 201. Section 403. Extend the merit system up- Section 203, 207 (in part). ward, outward, downward. Reorganize civil-service sys tem: (Whereupon, at the hour of 12 m., the committee recessed until 10 a. m. of the following day, Thursday, Aug. 5, 1937.) REORGANIZATION OF THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THURSDAY, AUGUST 5, 1937 SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON Washington, D. C. The committee met, Senator James F. Byrnes presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. Is Mr. Taber here? STATEMENT OF LOUIS J. TABER, MASTER OF THE NATIONAL GRANGE The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Taber, I understand you have to leave the city and you desire to make a statement to the committee. We will be glad to hear you at this time. Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. Being compelled to leave the city for an engagement tomorrow, I desire to take a moment of your time to present our views on this legislation. Speaking in behalf of the National Grange, its 8,000 local units and 800,000 dues-paying members, I desire to make clear the position of our organization relative to S. 2700 now pending before your committee. There are many provisions in this important piece of legislation worthy of very careful analysis and study. I shall direct my discussion primarily to opposition to section 402 of title IV. The reasons for the position of the National Grange go back to the very beginnings of the Bureau of Forestry and the development of a conservation program in this country. Again and again the National Grange has gone on record in opposition to any transfer of the Forestry Bureau from the Department of Agriculture to the Department of the Interior or any other branch of the Government. We have gone on record again and again for the transfer of soil conservation and similar activities to the Department of Agriculture. For more than a quarter of a century, the Grange has reaffirmed our sincere belief that all land-use problems of whatever kind and character must center in the Department of Agriculture if duplication, overlapping, and waste is to be prevented. Since the beginning of the farm depression in 1921, it has been apparent that there could be no sound program, no permanent farm relief, no long-time agricultural program if there was to be any division or duplication in executive departments dealing with land, forestry, conservation, crop production, plant control, soil conservation, and utilization. There can be no integrated and continuing program without this policy is adhered to. Recently the National Grange has gone on record against changing the name of the Department of the Interior to the Department of Conservation, because of the inevitable threat to a sound agricultural |