Senator MAGNUSON. Then funds in the amount of three million four-well, here is where we came in, they want a computer, three million four, and then four million two, that is the training and education activity. Mr. DURKEE. Right. FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO STATES Senator MAGNUSON. And then $35.7 of this amount is the financial assistance to States? Mr. DURKEE. Correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Which is an increase of $4.7 million over 1964, fiscal 1964. Mr. DURKEE. That is correct. And of that increase $3.7 million is for matching funds for personnel and administrative expenses for which authority expires June 30 of this year. The administration has submitted a request for extension of this authority. The House Armed Services Subcommittee No. 3 agreed to an extention of 4 years and it will be reported to the full committee in a few days, I understand. Senator MAGNUSON. This is the program in which the States and local municipalities and others furnish the help, and we pay part— Mr. DURKEE. We pay one-half of the costs. Seantor MAGNUSON. And one-half of the salaries? Mr. DURKEE. One-half of the salaries and administrative expenses. Senator MAGNUSON. And this amounts to $35 million? Mr. DURKEE. This amounts to $15 million this year and we are requesting a budget item of $18.7 million for 1965. Senator MAGNUSON. You have got on page 3, "We are requesting $35 million." Mr. DURKEE. Two other programs are involved, Mr. Chairman. Senator MAGNUSON. What are they? Mr. DURKEE. $10 million for State and local emergency operating centers which are civil defense headquarters for communications and for direction of emergency operations, plus $7 million for survival supplies, equipment, and training for civil defense. All of these programs are on a matching funds basis. The Federal Government only matches the expenditures made by the local or State governments. Senator MAGNUSON. But at any rate the total in the $92 million you are asking Mr. DURKEE. That is correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Thirty-five million dollars is for what we dole. out to the States for matching funds for all, sort of an overall purpose, hardware, people, and otherwise for civil defense, is that correct? Mr. DURKEE. That is correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Is that correct? Mr. DURKEE. That is correct. BALANCE OF OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE REQUEST Senator MAGNUSON. Where is the rest of it, where does that come in, what is the rest of it for? 31-706-64-pt. 1-45 Mr. DURKEE. Now, the rest of the operations and maintenance? Senator MAGNUSON. Yes. I have only got 5 million for the radiological detection, 5 million 6 for radio stations, 35 million; that is 45 million. Thirty-five million for financial assistance, now there are 45 and 47 more. Mr. DURKEE. You have $31.4 million for emergency operations, Mr. Chairman. If you will refer to the highlight booklet again, I can take you through them. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. EMERGENCY OPERATIONS Mr. DURKEE. Emergency operations start on chart 6. Mr. DURKEE. Entitled "Emergency Operations." Emergency broadcast system is budgeted at $5.6 million. The major purpose of this is to provide fallout protection, emergency generators, and program links in radio broadcasting stations to provide an emergency broadcasting system. This fallout shelter protection would provide minimal protection for the minimum number of people necessary to run that radio station in the event of an attack on this country. The system is run by the FCC. There is a Presidential directive on the subject and we use that system for civil defense purposes. We also have the responsibility for triggering the emergency broadcast system in the event of an air raid attack on this country. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. DAMAGE ASSESSMENT Mr. DURKEE. Now, "Damage assessment" is the next item, budgeted at $3.8 million. That is Senator YOUNG. What page are you on? Senator YOUNG. Which kind of six? Mr. DURKEE. Regular six, Arabic. TRAINING AND EDUCATION Senator MAGNUSON. All right. You have training and education. Mr. DURKEE. I have training and education at $17.9 million, public information at $3.6 million, industrial participation $0.4 million, and other emergency operation $0.1 million. Senator MAGNUSON. What is the difference between training and education in this item and the amount of money you want, $4.2 million increase for training and education activities in the operation and maintenance? Mr. DURKEE. That is the same item, the increase is $4.2 million, Mr. Chairman, from $13.7 million to $17.9 million. PROCUREMENT, RADIOLOGICAL DETECTION, AND MONITORING Senator MAGNUSON. You have lost me now. We have got $5.4 million for procurement of radiological detection and monitoring. Mr. DURKEE. Yes. Senator MAGNUSON. We have got $5.6 million to provide fallout protection for the radio broadcasting operation personnel. That is approximately $11 million. You have got $35.7 million for financial assistance. So you have got $46 million plus for those. And then you still have $92 million. I want to know what the other $46 million is being used for in operation and maintenance? Mr. DURKEE. Let's try to check off the items you have listed there, Mr. Chairman. Senator MAGNUSON. That is what you have got on your slip here. Mr. DURKEE. Warning detection, $10.3 million, emergency operations, $31.4 million-we just went through those, Mr. Chairman. Financial assistance to the States Senator MAGNUSON. We went through them but there you have got training and education. ITEMS IN $92.4 MILLION REQUEST Mr. DURKEE. Well, let me just say the $92.4 million which is what you are asking about is made up of these following items. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. Mr. DURKEE. Warning and detection $10.3 million. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. Mr. DURKEE. Emergency operations is $31.4 million; financial assistance to the States, $35.7 million; and management $15 million; equaling $92.4 million. Those are the items of the $92.4 million. Senator MAGNUSON. And they are all broken down in these charts? Mr. DURKEE. They are all broken down in these charts. Senator MAGNUSON. Now, the question I asked you, the training and education in emergency operations you also have Mr. DURKEE. Training and education is under emergency operations. Senator MAGNUSON. Yes. Mr. DURKEE. The only other place training and education appears is in financial assistance to States. Senator MAGNUSON. I think I understand. BREAKDOWN OF ESTIMATES Where is the breakdown of the $265 million? Mr. DURKEE. The $265.6 million breaks down in the following mounts. It is on page, chart-let's go back over to chart 1, if we could. Take chart 1. Senator MAGNUSON. Chart 1. Mr. DURKEE. One. You are asking about the $265.6 million? Mr. DURKEE. Let's go back in the book to chart 16 where I would break down the $250.6 million for you. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. Chart 15. Mr. DURKEE. Chart 16. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. Here we are. Mr. DURKEE. That is made up of the following items, $9.2 million for the continuing survey which we discussed before. Shelter provisions which are made up of two items, the first is $46.4 million for the traditional supplies. Senator MAGNUSON. Again to repeat that would bring us to 69 million. Mr. DURKEE. 79 million spaces. Senator MAGNUSON. 79 million, excuse me. Mr. DURKEE. The second is $50 million for portable ventilation kits, $3.5 million for water taps and $1 million for communications in shelters. That now makes up the item of $100.9 million. PRIVATE BUILDING SURVEY Now, the next item is $7.2 million. Senator MAGNUSON. This is for the private survey? Mr. DURKEE. This is for the smaller buildings not covered in the survey, and the $10 million is for finding out where to put people in relationship to the shelter program. Senator MAGNUSON. Wait a minute, designing shelter systems. Mr. DURKEE. That is right. This is to find out where people should go in relation to shelter. Senator MAGNUSON. This is not architectural design. Mr. DURKEE. No, sir. Senator MAGNUSON. It is a little misleading word there. Mr. DURKEE. It is a little misleading. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. ITEMS UNDER H.R. 8200 Mr. DURKEE. Now, the next two items totaling $123.3 million, are the items for which we have no authority. Those are the items tied up with H.R. 8200 and you can in effect mark those out. Senator MAGNUSON. We can mark $123 million out if this billon the assumption the bill didn't pass. Mr. DURKEE. On the assumption the bill didn't pass, that is right, sir. Mr. VANCE. That is right, sir. RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT Mr. DURKEE. There is also $15 million for research and development which when added to the $250.6 makes up the $265.6 million. Senator MAGNUSON. Research and development. Mr. DURKEE. Research and development. Senator MAGNUSON. IS 15. Mr. DURKEE. That is correct. Senator MAGNUSON. So the total then adds up to $358 million. Mr. DURKEE. Yes, sir. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. I think we have got this in perspective now. Mr. DURKEE. Looking at that another way, taking the $358 million, Mr. Chairman, if you subtract the $123.3 million it leaves $234.7 million which is what you are looking at-again on the assumption that H.R. 8200 will not be enacted this year. Senator MAGNUSON. That is the adjusted figure. SHELTER IN FEDERAL BUILDINGS Senator MAGNUSON. Now one question. Shelter in Federal buildings, how do you get in on that act when General Services come in and want money for it? For the record, these are buildings which General Services have no control over, is that correct? Mr. VANCE. For example, military construction. Senator MAGNUSON. Yes. So, we will be clear on that. Mr. DURKEE. The bill H.R. 8200 calls for mandatory shelter construction in all appropriate Federal and public buildings. Lacking that authority, shelter is included in the following ways if at all. There is a procedure by which the Bureau of the Budget requests that all Government agencies incorporate shelter in their design plans which are then sent over to us for our review to see if shelter is necessary and feasible. So, in the planning process shelter is included. However, in the Independent Offices Appropriations Act, there is a restriction against incorporating shelter in Federal buildings so that no shelter construction is taking place. Senator MAGNUSON. Well, we have been adding shelter, adding to new Federal buildings for GSA Mr. DURKEE. Yes. Senator MAGNUSON. X percent. Mr. VANCE. It is on a case-by-case basis. Mr. DURKEE. Case-by-case basis depending on the committee. Senator MAGNUSON. But this would include those not included under GSA? Mr. DURKEE. The money requested for Federal shelter construction here is not for construction in new buildings but for modifications of existing buildings only. Senator MAGNUSON. Would they be buildings under the jurisdiction of GSA? Mr. DURKEE. Yes, it would include buildings under the jurisdiction of other governmental agencies as well. Senator MAGNUSON. So we don't have duplication here? Mr. DURKEE. There is no duplication. Senator MAGNUSON. We know we deal with them in new structures. Mr. DURKEE. That is correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Building by building. Mr. DURKEE. This is correct. This is money only for modifying existing buildings. Senator MAGNUSON. All right, have we got that a little bit in perspective Gordon, I mean the amount, I am not talking about it yet, we haven't gotten to the merits of these programs. VENTILATING EQUIPMENT Senator ALLOTT. No; not yet. But I might say that I think, I don't want to say this unkindly, but I think this thing could be presented in a much easier way rather than with these extended and unrelated charts. I would like to ask a question about ventilation. Now, are we going to get into a situation where you go into a place and install ventilation and the people use it and agreements are made, |