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Senator MAGNUSON. And that is apt to increase for obvious reasons to about 730,000, or maybe more.

Mr. GLEASON. Increased productivity.

Senator MAGNUSON. That is in percentage-put this in the record, to somewhat is it, some 24 million veterans?

Mr. GLEASON. 222 million.

Senator MAGNUSON. 2212 million veterans.

Mr. GLEASON. Yes, sir.

Senator MAGNUSON. And of the 2212 million existing veterans the hospital load is 720,000 or 730,000?

Mr. GLEASON. Right.

VETERANS NEEDING CARE

Senator MAGNUSON. The care load?

Dr. MCNINCH. Mr. Chairman, a technical point. The same patient might be counted as two patients being taken care of in the total. Senator ALLOTT. You have to look at the averages; don't you? Don't you have to look back on the other page?

Dr. McNINCH. This is the number of patients who have come in and gone out.

Senator MAGNUSON. Correct the record. What I am trying to get is the percentage of patients, veterans who need care as compared with the total number of veterans in the country, 22.5 million-plus.

Senator ALLOTT. But to get the true picture, you might have 720,000 patients in the course of a year, but to look at another average you would only have at any time 120,000 plus 16,600.

Mr. GLEASON. That is in all facilities.

Senator ALLOTT. Average?

Mr. GLEASON. That is correct.

Senator MAGNUSON. Average?

Mr. GLEASON. Yes.

Senator ALLOTT. So that would be roughly 137,000 average?
Mr. GLEASON. At any one time.

Senator ALLOTT. Throughout the year, although you would take care of 720,000.

Senator MAGNUSON. Just so we can get the ratio. All right.

AVERAGE EMPLOYMENT IN HOSPITALS

Mr. GLEASON. Our request contemplates an average employment of 120,201 in our hospitals and domiciliaries in 1965-an increase of 933 over planned levels for 1964. This will permit improvement in staffing ratio of 7 per 1,000 daily patient load. Of the 933 increase in average employment, 358 is related to new facilities and medical services and 575 to other improvement in patient care and maintenance of facilities.

COMPARISON WITH PRIVATE FACILITIES

Senator MAGNUSON. Now at that point, if you have figures that are accurate, but may be you can make a statement, how does this compare, the 7 to 1,000, with the private hospital facilities of the United States?

Mr. GLEASON. Far under.

Senator MAGNUSON. You can get those figures. If you have to make an estimate, all right, so we can make a comparison.

(The information requested follows:)

Full-time equivalent staffing comparisons per 100 patients-VA, general medical and surgical, and other short-term general and special hospitals

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NOTE.-Non-VA hospital employment figures exclude physicians, residents, interns, and students VA-general medical and surgical hospital employment figures exclude only students. Also, because of differences in composition of patient load and treatment modalities and programs between VA and the non-Federal hospitals the above data are not fully comparable. Source: Hospitals, Guide Issue, Journal of the American Hospital Association, Aug. 1, 1963.

REQUIREMENTS BY HOSPITAL

Senator MONRONEY. Can you put in the record of the hearings, then, a statement showing what each hospital is programed for in your budget, and how much they had last year in dependent care items? Mr. GLEASON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MONK. Dollars?

Senator MONRONEY. Dollars and persons.
Senator MAGNUSON. All right.

(The information requested follows:)

Medical care funds and employment by station

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1 Includes funds and planned employment for new facilities to be equipped and activated prior to June 30, 1964; payment of centralized contracts; programwide postal reimbursements, etc.

Fiscal year 1965

The fiscal year 1965 financial and employment programing for VA hospitals and clinics will not be finalized until current studies of initial and replacement equipment requirements are completed and the appropriation approved by the Congress is known. However, the fiscal year 1965 average employment and tentative monetary allocations will reasonably approximate the fiscal year 1964 allowances.

ITEMS IN INCREASE

Mr. GLEASON. Major items provided for in the increase requested for 1965 include: (1) Activation of a new and larger hospital in Washington, D.C.; and a new restoration center at East Orange, N.J. Senator MAGNUSON. Let's take these one by one. By activation, what do you mean?

Mr. GLEASON. Building a new hospital.

Senator MAGNUSON. Building a new hospital.
Mr. GLEASON. Yes, sir.

Senator MAGNUSON. This is new construction?
Mr. GLEASON. Yes, sir.

Senator MAGNUSON. All right.

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