in addition. It doesn't cost anything, but it takes the time of your board. It is hours, minutes and hours each day.

General HERSHEY. I wouldn't want to say it doesn't cost anything because it is one of our problems. But you see the work we are doing now is somewhat preliminary, but this program which is coming over to Congress allegedly has in it for Congress to decide whether or not they are going to appropriate money to do these things that we are doing now somewhat on an experimental basis. If they appropriate the money as it is set up in the planning, of course we have got much larger numbers to send. You can divide our people up into several classes. First of all, you have got the man who is rejected today, and it may be for physical, it may be for mental, or it may be for moral reasons. At the present time we are not doing anything about the moral rejectees except as you may have something being done in the communities and in the States. That is another great big wide area in which we cooperate.

REHABILITATION OF REJECTEES FOR MORAL REASONS

Senator MAGNUSON. Do you think the Federal Government should engage in some sort of rehabilitation of Joe Dokes in Colorado who is rejected for moral reasons? I don't.

Senator ALLOTT. That is a problem of the State.

Senator MAGNUSON. A problem of the State, the local, or the people. Now educational and physical, I can see that.

Senator ALLOTT. I won't even concede that at this point.

Senator MAGNUSON. I don't concede it. I meant I can see how they get into education and physical.

Senator ALLOTT. What I want to know first is where you get the authority to do this work. Congress didn't authorize you to do this. We didn't appropriate money to do this, General.

General HERSHEY. No, I guess probably that is true. I don't want to try to shift responsibility onto somebody else, but I believe I am safe in saying that this is a presidential program.

QUESTION OF AUTHORITY

It

Senator ALLOTT. Let's go into this. I want to pin this down. may be a presidential program at the present time, but it is not a law. Were you given a directive by the President to accomplish this work, to do this work? Do you have a letter from him directing you to do it?

General HERSHEY. I think the President has put out-I am getting into technicalities. I am not going to debate the efficacies of a press release, but we have had some orders. We have had approval of this original task force recommendation. I don't believe I am claiming something that I shouldn't, but I say I believe that it is our direction. I think in the narrow field you could say that it isn't specifically legalized, but on the other hand I don't believe there is anything that indicates a prohibition of trying to take means of making a man able to carry out a Government responsibility and an obligation which at the present time he is not able to carry out because of his condition.

Senator ALLOTT. General, you have no authority under the Selective Service Act to do any such thing as that. All I want to find out

is do you have a directive, a direct letter or a directive from the President to perform this work?

AUTHORITY IMPLIED IN SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT

Colonel FRANCK. General, I think we had probably better supply that. That is a pretty specific sort of thing. I feel there is no question about implied authority.

Senator ALLOTT. What is your name, sir?

Colonel FRANCK. Colonel Franck.

Senator ALLOTT. Where do you get the idea that there is no question about implied authority. Can you find anything in the Selective Service Act that authorizes you or implies that you are to go out on a welfare program?

Colonel FRANCK. Senator, I think the Selective Service Act is a very broad act.

Senator ALLOTT. It is not that broad.

Colonel FRANCK. It is a very broad act. It may not be that broad. I don't know, but I think that would take a little study. I think we would have to look at it. I think it comes down to the question of legal authority.

Senator ALLOTT. Then I am to assume that there is no direct authority for your engaging in this work?

General HERSHEY. In the first place it is a very difficult thing to take issue with the people that make the laws.

Senator ALLOTT. Here are the people who make the laws.

General HERSHEY. I know. That is what I say. That is one of the reasons why I, as a person obeying the laws, don't want to get into conflict with people that make the laws. But personally I think, and I would like to supply it, but I think that we at least are willing to supply to you what we believe is a directive to us to do these things. Now when it gets into the question of whether the directive was proper or not, I don't believe I should be called into that.

Senator ALLOTT. I am not asking that. You say that you can supply what you believe?

General HERSHEY. That is right.

SOURCE OF DIRECTIVE

Senator ALLOTT. All right, what do you believe was the directive? General HERSHEY. I think the directive was that we were to refer these individuals that did not possess the qualifications they should have had to do their military duty. In other words, here is a man that is not carrying out his obligations for certain reasons.

Senator ALLOTT. From where did this directive come? From the Secretary of Labor?

General HERSHEY. No. The Secretary of Labor was not
Senator ALLOTT. Was it from the Secretary of HEW?

General HERSHEY. No. What I am going to try to supply you with is from the President. Obviously the Secretary of Labor-we could do some things on a cooperative basis but the Secretary of Labor wouldn't direct us any more than the Secretary of Defense. The only thing the Secretary of Defense would direct to us would be when

he issues calls and that is by authority of the Congress given to him and the President to call on us.

Senator ALLOTT. You have given us the figures of $30 million of your budget as being absorbed in local boards and State boards. General HERSHEY. And the national.

Senator ALLOTT. And national.
General HERSHEY. That is right.

EXPENDITURES IN CONNECTION WITH POVERTY PROGRAM

Senator ALLOTT. I have added them up here. Now of that $30 million, what percentage of the workload, of the actual workload, is being absorbed of this $30 million in the poverty program?

General HERSHEY. Well, I think we had better try to do a little more research on how much that is. Of course it has only been in existence since February. You have got March and April. We have had

about 2 months of it.

Senator ALLOTT. The reason I am asking these questions, General, is that you have come up here for several years, and this committee has heard your story and we have given very sympathetic consideration to the problem which you have presented. Year after year it has been essentially the problem that you have people working in these local boards that are working overtime, working for nothing. General HERSHEY. That is right.

Senator ALLOTT. Isn't this correct?

General HERSHEY. That is true, and not only that, it is perfectly true we are in a new field that we have not heretofore been in, except a little back in 1940-41. We worked with rehabilitation a little bit then, but this new program is launching us into what is quite a different kind of work from what we have been doing.

Senator ALLOTT. This is the situation which you have described, and I have described it accurately to you as you have presented it to us, haven't I?

General HERSHEY. We happen to disagree on whether we have authority.

Senator ALLOTT. I mean the workload out in the field.

General HERSHEY. That is right.

Senator ALLOTT. I have described it accurately?

General HERSHEY. And we try to funish you

Senator ALLOTT. As you have presented it to us year after year. General HERSHEY. That is right.

ADDITIONAL WORKLOAD

Senator ALLOTT. Now with this situation, you have undertaken a workload for the Secretary of Labor, for HEWV, or for the President or for somebody which is not authorized by law, and you are unable to tell me who instigated it and started you doing it.

General HERSHEY. I think you are completely right except I don't like to admit that I am unable. I think I can furnish you something that is a little more accurate than I could give you off the cuff. Of course I do want to call your attention to the fact that we are engaged and have been engaged for quite some time with the States and with

the counties and other groups, furnishing them people that they have tried to rehabilitate.

Senator ALLOTT. I have before me the Universal Military Training and Service Act which is certainly a misnomer if anything ever was. Senator MAGNUSON. It is not too long. We can put it in the record.

U.S. CODE CITATION

Senator ALLOTT. It is quite long, but I will refer to it. It's title 50 of the United States Code 1958 edition, appendix War and National Defense, June 23, 1948, chapter 625, title I (62 Stat. 6604).

Now in just looking through the titles of this act, and this comes before me for the first time, but in looking through the first short title: "Repeal Registration. Persons liable for training and service," there it says "age limits, training in national security training corps, physical and mental fitness," etc. But this is standards, criteria, training period, medical specialist categories, length of service and so forth.

I would like you to provide for me specifically any paragraph in this act which you think authorizes this new activity.

Now if your activities, General, do not come within the act, then I assume that you must have some authority and you must have personal knowledge of it, and I would like to know what it is.

General HERSHEY. We will be glad to furnish that.

Senator ALLOTT. I would like it now.

General HERSHEY. I don't believe that I want to tackle there have been quite a lot of directives. There have been things that we count as directives. Maybe we do it incorrectly. In the first place we are getting into something that

WORK OF DIRECTOR

Senator ALLOTT. General, you do a fine job as Director of Selective Service. No one has ever questioned this. You have done this same job for how many years now?

General HERSHEY. Well, since 1940.

Senator ALLOTT. Since 1940.

General HERSHEY. Not quite a quarter of a century.

Senator ALLOTT. And no one has ever questioned the fine job you have done with this. Now all of a sudden you have a new program and you are sitting here and telling me that you don't know where this thing came from. I just can't understand this.

General HERSHEY. I don't want to be contentious but on the other hand I rather object to having to say that I don't know something when I ask a little time to get it together.

I could start out and try to improvise, but whenever you get into this legal business, and I am not a lawyer, I feel that I don't just care to shoot from the hip on something that may be quite complicated. Senator ALLOTT. You have got a staff here. Maybe they can answer this question.

General HERSHEY. I don't know, that is up to them, but on the other hand it is

Senator ALLOTT. Will you permit them to answer that?

31-706-64-pt. 1- -40

PRECEDENTS FOR WORK

General HERSHEY. We have some precedents because from about 1941 through most of World War II under a very similar law, we did attempt a great deal of rehabilitation. We didn't accomplish too much because about the only thing we had to offer in those days was that if we got them rehabilitated they would be in the service and some of them didn't volunteer to do it. So to that extent it isn't entirely new.

If any of the staff wants to make any statement, they have my permission.

Senator ALLOTT. I just want an answer to my question.

General HERSHEY. We will try to get it for you.

Senator ALLOTT. Did you start this program by a Presidential directive or what?

General HERSHEY. I don't think there is any question about that. The question to me is quoting the exact papers.

Senator ALLOTT. I am not asking you to quote this. Did you get a direct Presidential directive by letter?

General HERSHEY. I so consider it; yes.

Senator ALLOTT. What do you mean you so consider it? Did he tell you personally to do it?

General HERSHEY. No; I don't see the President. What we get we get in writing and I am perfectly willing to furnish you that if we have an opportunity to get it together.

Senator ALLOTT. Will you see that my office is furnished copies of this material when it is furnished to the committee?

it.

General HERSHEY. We will furnish it to you as soon as we can get

Senator MAGNUSON. For the record.

(The information referred to follows:)

DIRECTIVE FOR WORK

The policy of the Government to foster educational and health services is reflected in a number of programs, and is a field in which Congress has legislated extensively.

Apart from any congressional policy to promote the general welfare through educational and medical services adequate to the needs of our citizens, the Congress in selective service legislation has declared that the obligation and privilege of serving in the Armed Forces should be shared generally and that the fullest utilization of our manpower resource be promoted. The enactment and reenactment of selective service legislation is an expression of the policy of Congress not only to maintain Armed Forces of the size currently required, but to maintain a national posture enabling us to respond effectively to emergencies that require us to commit our manpower to defense in both military and militarysupporting civilian activities.

These objectives-to obtain a general sharing of military service and to insure that our manpower resource will be adequate for our defense in crises-expressed in the Universal Military Training and Service Act, as amended, impose a duty to take all possible steps to reduce the numbers of men who as a result of disqualification neither share in military service nor realize their full potential for contribution to the common strength in other capacities.

The Selective Service System is the only agency of Government which can identify those individuals who have been found disqualified for service and who may benefit from rehabilitation programs. This agency has a unique capacity and an obligation to support fully rehabilitation efforts in pursuit of the objectives of a wider sharing of the military obligation and of developing a citizenry more capable of contributing to national strength in other ways also vital to our survival. Not only did the System engage in rehabilitation efforts