Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Perber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent grade 19581 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Perber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent Total. 4,266 100.0 5,281 100.0 6,231 100.0 11,310 100.0 16,871 100.0 22,612 9.1 9.0 9.2 9.0 9.3 11.0 9.3 11.0 1 National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics functions and personnel transferred to National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Less than 0.05 percent. grade Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- ber cent ber cent Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Per- Num- Perber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent ber cent Total. 93, 592 100.0 92, 548 100.0 91, 993 100.0 91, 777 100.0 92, 609 100.0 91, 926 100.0 Average grade.. 4.7 Median grade... 4.0 'Less than 0.05 percent. COST DECREASES DUE TO CLASSIFICATION Other reasons are Senator MONRONEY. This is a continuing increase in the cost of administration by job reclassification. What actually happens is that a job that was formerly, maybe, a GS-8 becomes a GS-9 because of purportedly added responsibilities; isn't that right? Mr. MACY. That is one of the reasons for it. that there are new jobs created to administer new programs where there is a call for a higher level of talent or professional ability in order to get that new work done. This increase in the number of activities under contract tends to increase the upper levels of the Government because of the need for supervising those contracts. Our view has been that this rate of increase appears to be excessive and that it ought to be very carefully examined. If the agencies do not have adequate control it may be necessary to initiate some Government-wide controls to restrain any advance that is not supported by a change in program, by a change in organization, or by a change in method. USE OF COMPUTERS For example, on changes in methods, many of the departments are turning to greater use of computers. Now, with the use of computers you tend to eliminate a very significant number of lower level jobs but you have to have an increase in supervision. You have to have an increase in programers, and also systems analysts. That tends to change the mix of your personnel, with a greater proportion of the higher skilled and professionally trained, and a lower proportion of the clerical and semiskilled. PERCENTAGE OF SUPERVISORS Senator MAGNUSON. It might be interesting to make a comparison between, say, a big corporation employing a lot of people, the per centage of supervisory employees as compared with the corresponding employees of the Government. Mr. MACY. Mr. Chairman, this could be done with some industries. For example, you could compare the insurance operation of the Veterans' Administration with a large life insurance company. Senator MAGNUSON. To see whether they have more supervisors percentagewise? Mr. MACY. The Veterans' Administration the other day in a House hearing cited the fact that they have reduced the cost of handling the GI insurance. They also have an increase in the supervisory force because of the necessity of handling business on machines. But this year the cost of the dividend distribution on the GI insurance is down to 0.4 cents per check, in contrast to a cost of 27 cents just 3 years ago. Senator MAGNUSON. I see. Mr. MACY. So, to produce this kind of cost reduction and higher productivity with a somewhat higher distribution of supervisors, it seems to me that the net results justify the increase but this is the kind of justification that we are seeking. REDUCTION IN DEFENSE DEPARTMENT Senator ALLOTT. Before we leave that, I have one more question, Mr. Macy. I understood that a part and a very substantial part of the reduction in personnel is in the Defense Department. Could you give us those figures? Mr. MACY. I do not have a precise figure. We can provide that. I can answer your question generally by saying yes, the major portion of the reduction is in the Defense Department. But in a number of other departments there are reductions taking place as well-the Post Office, the Veterans' Administration, the Senator ALLOTT. Well, of course, the significance of this question is that if we have a substantial reduction in the Defense Department and in one or two or three others that you mention, whatever they are, then we are actually taking up the load with an increased employment in other parts. Mr. MACY. There are some offsetting increases but the President has insisted that any of these offsetting increases be very precisely justified and the hope is that we will continue to increase the productivity of these other agencies and as a result not need to increase the employment at the same rate as the workload increases. POST OFFICE PERSONNEL INCREASE Senator Allott. Well, I have been informed that the Post Office Department is asking for an increase of 2,000 or 3,000 more. Now, if the Defense Establishment is being decreased and other establishments being decreased, somewhere somebody is getting the increase. Mr. MACY. There are some increases. There are some programs where the growth in workload is going to necessitate, over a period of time, some increases. For example Senator ALLOTT. Well, is it true or not that the Post Office is going up? Mr. MACY. My impression is that the Post Office ceiling has been fixed at Senator MONRONEY. I think last year it was reduced, at least under the estimate of what was needed to carry the growth in the mail load. The mail load continues to increase every year. Every year the cities continue to sprawl out, so if you are going to cover that you are going to have some increases in the Post Office Department. Mr. MACY. In the President's budget the increase in the Post Office would be only 6,000 positions between the actual of 1963 and the estimate for 1964, and then 4,000 additional positions in 1965. The percentage of increase represented by those figures is very substantially less than the increase in population and the increase in workload that is anticipated based upon the rate of increase in postal business which occurred in recent years. Senator ALLOTT. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) PROVISION FOR INCREASE IN HOUSE BILL Senator ALLOTT. I think it is significant that we know where the increases and where the decreases are going. The House, I am informed, has passed a bill already providing for the increases in the postal department and the figures that you have just given me sustantiate that. Mr. MACY. Yes, sir, that is right. The President's budget called for some increase and, as I point out, increases that are substantially less than those initially projected or those that would appear to bave been justified by the workload. INCREASE DUE TO WORKLOAD INCREASE Senator MAGNUSON. We have had some minor ones in some of the agencies due to the increase of the workload. Let us take the ICC, for example. As transportation expands they have to have more safety inspectors for trucks and railroads, and the FAA, whenever they build a new tower, that tower has to have somebody to man it. But these are comparatively mild increases. This committee last year allowed an increase in the FAA only for the towers that were coming into being, we tried to hold the line, similar to what you are talking about. Mr. MACY. That is right. Now, you have NASA's appropriation before you and Senator MAGNUSON. Well, I will leave out NASA. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION REDUCTION Senator MAGNUSON. Anyway, in your own shop you are going to have a figure of 4,125 June 30 of 1964 and a figure, you hope, of 4,079 or a small decrease by June 30, 1965? Mr. MACY. That is generally correct. I can make it even better by saying that we are not going to employ up to the authorized ceiling for June 30, 1964. We are going to employ only to the 1965 ceiling of 4,079 within the Civil Service Commission. Senator MAGNUSON. Incidentally, how are you getting along in the new building? Much better? Mr. MACY. It is a very fine building. |