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Senator MAGNUson. Now, does this include civil employees of the Defense Department?

Mr. Macy. Yes, sir.

Senator MAGNUson. It does?

Mr. MACY. Yes.

otor MAGNUsoN. Does it include civil employees in, say, navy yards?

Mr. MACY. Yes, sir.

Senator MAGNUson. Or places of that nature, such as airbases, places like that?

Mr. MACY. This includes all civilians of the Department of Defense and they constitute a very substantial portion

Senator MAGNUsoN. Number of this group?

Mr. MACY. They are included in this group.

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Senator MAGNUson. Now, does it include oversea personnel? Mr. MACY. It includes oversea personnel paid directly by the U.S. Government, both U.S. employees and those that are indigenous to the country. Senator MAGNUson. How about State Department employees? Mr. MACY. State Department employees are included.


Senator MAGNUson. Does it include any employees in the judiciary?

Mr. MACY. No, sir.

Senator MAGNUson. It does not?

Mr. MACY. No.

Senator MAGNUson. And obviously it does not include any in the legislative branch?

Mr. MACY. That is correct—none in the legislative branch.

Senator MAGNUsos. So the employment that you would have to add to get the total Government civilian employment figure are the legislative branch and the judiciary?

Mr. MACY. That is correct.

Senator MAGNUson. Could you—

Mr. MACY. I can give you those figures. -

Senator MAGNUson. Do you have those figures for the record?


Mr. MACY. As of February 29, 1964, the total strength for Federal civilian employment was 2,488,000 of which the executive branch was 2,458,000, the legislative branch was 24,240, and the judicial branch was 5,783. Senator MAGNUson. 5,000 for the judiciary Mr. MACY. Yes; and about 24,000 for the legislative. Senator MAGNUson. 24,000 for the legislative. Mr. MACY. That is the actual figure at the end of February. Senator MAGNUson. All right.


Mr. Macy. Now, you will notice that this means that there will be an increase of roughly 45,000 additional employees between the end of February and the end of June 1964, in the event that these ceiling figures are reached. And most of them are of a seasonal nature.

Senator MAGNUSON. Well, in the event that we appropriate money that will take care of that.

Mr. Macy. No, this is for 1964.
Senator MAGNUSON. Oh, 1964.

Mr. Macy. That is right. As far as 1965 is concerned, if the money is appropriated and if these ceilings are reached—the difference will be between 2,458,000 and 2,503,000.

Senator MAGNUSON. That would be 45,000.
Mr. Macy. Yes, 45,000.
Senator ALLOTT. Mr. Chairman, could I ask a question?
Senator MAGNUSON. Yes.


Senator ALLOTT. On the question of what is covered and what is not covered. This would not cover any persons who are on a contractual basis with AID or Alliance for Progress and outfits such as that in either foreign countries or in this country?

Mr. Macy. That is correct, Senator Allott. It would not include any employment under contract of any kind, whether it is a contract with NASA or in the Defense Department or any other agency that uses contracts as a method for carrying on its work.

Senator MAGNUSON. And in the Defense Department there are many contracts?

Mr. Macy. Oh, a tremendous number of contracts. Using NASA as an example, as Mr. Webb undoubtedly will testify, more than 80 percent of the work for NASA is done under contract.

Senator MONRONEY. It is almost all research and development; is it not?

Mr. Macy. That is right.
Senator MONRONEY. That is done under contract.
Mr. Macy. That is right.

Senator ALLOTT. Do you have any estimates as to what the total Federal employment would be if you roll in all of the employees on contract?

Mr. Macy. Well, I can hazard a guess, but I would rather not. I have not seen firm figures as to what that is. It is a very substantial figure, substantially in excess of the civilian employment that we are talking about here in the Federal Government.

Senator MAGNUSON. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)


Senator Allott. Will you put in the record the actual employment on June 30 of the years 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, and 1964, and you have got the 1965 target here.

Mr. Macy. Yes.

Senator ALLOTT. Just so that we have it all together in one place.

Mr. MACY. I will get you that figure. %j you like to have that read into the record?

Senator ALLOTT. If you have it here, you might as well read it in.

Mr. MACY. Senator Allott, in response to your question, the executive branch civilian employment as of jo. 30, 1960, was 2,370,000. On June 30, 1961, 2,407,000. On June 30, 1962, 2,484,000. On June 30, 1963, 2,497,000.

And I have cited in my statement that the ceiling figure for June 30, 1964, is 2,505,000, the ceiling set by the President. The ceiling figure for June 30, 1965, the year of the appropriation that we are now having under discussion, will be 2,503,000.

Senator ALLOTT. So that the 1963–65 increase will only be 6,000?

Mr. MACY. 6,000 is correct.

Senator MAGNUson. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Senator MAGNUson. Furnish for the record the total employment, including that in private industry where employment results from Government contracts.

(The information requested follows:)

[Excerpt from the Manpower Report of the President and a report on manpower requirements, resources, utilization, and training by the U.S. Department of Labor (transmitted to the Congress March 1964)]


Federal, State, and local governments spent a total of $123 billion for goods and services in 1962 * to carry out their manifold defense and nondefense responsibilities. (See table 43.) This figure represented nearly one-fourth of the total national expenditure for goods and services,

Not quite half of this government spending (somewhat more than $60 billion) was for wages, salaries, and other compensation of the 12 million government employees. The remainder (over $62 billion) was used to purchase goods and services from private industry, where it generated employment for about 6.5 million workers.” It should be noted that the money spent in private industry covered not only compensation of employees but also capital costs, profits, and taxes.

* For comparability with data on government employment, $5.8 billion in compensation of government enterprise employees has been added to the $11.7 billion in government purchases of goods and services, as shown in the national income and so accounts. Data on other current operating expenditures of government enterprises are not available. Capital expenditures by these enterprises are included in government purchases of goods and services.

* See footnote 1, p. 151.

TABLE 43.—Government purchases of goods and services and resulting employment,

1962 1

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1 For comparability with data on government employment, $5,800,000,000 in compensation of government enterprise employees has been added to the $117,000,000,000 in government purchases of goods and services, as shown in the national income and product accounts. Data on other current operating expenditures of government enterprises are not available. Capital expenditures by these enterprises are included in govo ernment purchases of goods and services. Includes space and atomic energy programs. * As defined in the national income and product accounts. • Not available.

Less than 50,000 military employees, paid largely from Federal funds. • Total government personnel, within the scope of each column heading, is the sum of “General government personnel" and "Employees of government enterprises."

NOTE,-Detail may not add to totals because of rounding.
Source: U.S. Department of Commerce and U.S. Department of Labor.


Senator MAGNUSON. The Budget Bureau puts out a little statement in the "Budget in Brief” regarding growth in the Federal Government, that we ought to put in the record. Would you find that and furnish it to us?

Mr. Macy, Yes, sir.
(The document referred to follows.)

31-706-64-pt. 1-10

GROWTH OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT Federal expenditures in recent years have risen because the Nation has become the leader of the free world and also because it has become more populous, mobile, urbanized, and complex. The expansion in outlays has been necessary not only for the Nation's defense and its increasing mastery of space, but also to furnish the services and benefits necessary to meet the requirements of a growing population in an increasingly interdependent society.

The following examples serve to illustrate this point. In 1965 the volume of mail is expected to increase 2.8 percent over the current fiscal year; visits to our

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national parks will expand by 6 percent; the number of beneficiaries under the old-age and survivors insurance program will go up by 5 percent; the number of veterans or survivors receiving pensions is estimated to rise by 4 percent; aircraft landings and takeoffs at airports with Federal towers are going up by 3.7 percent; the number of patent applications is rising by 2.3 percent; and the number of schoolchildren expected to participate in the school lunch program is estimated to rise by 5.3 percent. The rising prices the Government pays, including pay increases for Government employees to keep pace with private wage rates, also require additional outlays over the long run. In 1965, however, increased productivity and other savings will offset the cost of rising workloads.

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