Senator JOHNSTON. Some of them are so antiquated that you would do good to get rid of them and build new post offices. Mr. SUMMERFIELD. In your State we have Beaufort, Camden, Grenville, Orangeburg, Spartanburg, Sumter, Charleston among others. Senator JOHNSTON. That is the larger towns. Senator ROBERTSON. The committee stands in recess until 10:30 and the Postmaster General will come back with such assistance as he may deem proper to give us this additional information. Mr. SUMMERFIELD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. (Whereupon, at 4:05 p. m., Wednesday, March 12, 1958, the committee recessed, to reconvene at 10:30 a. m., Thursday, March 13, 1958.) TREASURY AND POST OFFICE DEPARTMENTS APPROPRIATIONS, 1959 THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1958 UNITED STATES SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS, Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room F-39, the Capitol, Hon. A. Willis Robertson (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Senators Robertson, Hayden, Dirksen, Johnston, and Carlson. POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT FURTHER STATEMENTS OF ARTHUR E. SUMMERFIELD, POSTMASTER GENERAL; EDSON 0. SESSIONS, DEPUTY POSTMASTER GENERAL; AND HYDE GILLETTE, ASSISTANT POSTMASTER GENERAL, BUREAU OF FINANCE TRANSFER LIMITATION Senator ROBERTSON. The committee will please come to order. We are glad to have the Postmaster General before us again. Yesterday the chairman raised some question about the need for restoring the funds which had been cut from the budget estimate by the House, first, because the estimate made last fall of the volume of mail might be off because of the recession; secondly, because there was limitation of a 5-percent transfer. I understand that the Postmaster General and one of his deputies would like to put in the record a statement indicating to what extent that 5-percent transfer is a limited fund. Mr. GILLETTE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In reference to your remarks, H. R. 11085 states, on page 11, as follows: Provided, That not to exceed 5 per centum of any appropriation available to the Post Office Department for the current fiscal year may be transferred, with the approval of the Bureau of the Budget, to any other such appropriation or appropriations; but the appropriation "Administration, regional operation, and research," shall not be increased by more than $2,000,000 as a result of such transfers. I simply wanted to call the committee's attention to this limitation on the administration appropriation because I felt that it was pertinent to the discussion of yesterday, Mr. Chairman. 181 DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE BUILDING PROGRAM Senator ROBERTSON. General Summerfield, do you wish to supplement the statement you made yesterday about what you could do with an additional $50 million for equipment for new post offices if you had it? Mr. SUMMERFIELD. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I will ask the Deputy Postmaster General to review with you and the committee some figures that were compiled yesterday in furtherance of the suggestion by Senator Dirksen. Senator DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman, we put that in the alternative, I think, what could be done with $50 million, or what it would take by way of additional facilities to build and equip 500 new buildings or 1,000 new buildings, and how fast such a program could be initiated and moved on to become effective. Senator ROBERTSON. The Senator from Illinois is correct because, in the closing moment of the session, that was his proposal. Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman and Senator Dirksen, in order to simplify the discussion, we are assuming a $50 million 1-year addition to our present capital program and also a $100 million addition to our present capital program. Under our fiscal year 1959 capital program for buildings, equipment, and research, we now plan for 700 leased new buildings. With this $50 million addition to our present capital program, it is estimated that we could also build 200 more new buildings to replace present space upon lease expirations, and we would replace 50 Federal buildings with leased quarters in new buildings, giving us a total in the $50-million plan of 950 new buildings with a cost in Federal funds of $80 million. And then, in addition, we would contemplate an expenditure of $5 million for additional research. We would purchase and this, I might say, Senator, could be adjusted either between additional rehabilitated space or, if it were deemed wise, additional buildings, but, tentatively, we would purchase 5,500 trucks and mailsters, for a cost of $13 million. We would also be able to rehabilitate 2,500,000 square feet of space in Federal buildings at a cost of $25 million. This is the breakdown of the total amount of $123 million; in other words, the $73 million current capital program plus a $50 million increased program. To recapitulate, you would have 950 new buildings in this $50million plan, Senator. Senator DIRKSEN. In the $50 million or the $123 million? Mr. SESSIONS. The $50-million addition, Senator, which is added to our present capital program of $73 million, making $123 million. So I am still talking about the $50-million additional plan, which, as I understand it, is your question. OLD POST OFFICE BUILDINGS Senator JOHNSTON. How many of these towns, where you have new post offices, will have also old post offices left in the town? Mr. SESSIONS. You mean in how many towns? Senator JOHNSTON. In how many towns would you also have left the old building that you now have? Mr. SESSIONS. About 250. Senator JOHNSTON. About 250 ? Mr. SESSIONS. That is right, Senator; buildings which we consider no longer suitable for postal service, which are outdated or obsolescent and which wouldn't suit our needs any more. Many of these buildings are very old. Senator JOHNSTON. You turn them back over to the General Services Administration, do you not? Mr. SESSIONS. The Federal buildings, Senator, yes. But the leased buildings are owned by lessors, by private capital. Two hundred of these buildings are lease expirations, and 50 of the 250 are Federal buildings. Senator JOHNSTON. Just 50 of them Federal? Senator DIRKSEN. 200 are lease expirations. Mr. SESSIONS. Yes, and mostly buildings which we have been leasing temporarily or which are no longer suitable for our needs, Senator. Senator JOHNSTON. Most of the post offices you are building onto; is that right? How many buildings will you build in all? Mr. SESSIONS. 950, total. Senator JOHNSTON. Of that 950, 250 you will not use any more. What becomes of the other post offices? Mr. SESSIONS. In the 50 Federal buildings we assume the space will be occupied by other agencies which need the space very badly. Of the lease-expiration buildings, some of them will undoubtedly be used for other purposes, some of them will be remodeled or redesigned by their owners for other uses. Some of them may be even torn down because of age and poor condition. Senator JOHNSTON. Do you have long-lease contracts on some of the old buildings? Mr. SESSIONS. These are leases which are expiring that we have to renew or go into a new building. Senator JOHNSTON. So, with respect to every Federal building which you are building, a new post-office lease has run out. Mr. SESSIONS. That is right, sir, except that the buildings are erected and owned by private interests for our lease. If we added $100 million, gentlemen, to our present fiscal year 1959 appropriation request of $73 million, we would have in 1 year a program for $173 million. With that amount of money we would contemplate that our present program of 700 buildings will continue for fiscal year 1959. But we estimate that we would double the extra number of lease expirations which we would replace with new buildings. We would increase that program by 400. We would also double the number of Federal buildings which we would replace with space in new leased buildings. That program would go from 50 to 100. TOTAL NEW BUILDINGS So the total number of new buildings which could be programed under the $173 million program, that is with $100 million of additional funds, would be 1,200 new buildings. Also under that program we would contemplate purchasing 10,000 trucks and mailsters, and we would rehabilitate 4,500,000 square feet of space in Federal buildings. Senator JOHNSTON. That amount of space you say is 4,500,000 square feet. Mr. SESSIONS. 4,500,000 square feet, Senator. Senator JOHNSTON. How many post offices will that mean remodeling? 22904-58-13 Mr. SESSIONS. I can't tell you exactly, Senator; I would assume that the average square footage of these buildings might possibly be around 20,000 to 30,000 square feet. Senator JOHNSTON. You do not have that broken down into how many post offices? Mr. SESSIONS. We do not have the exact figure at this time. We have it broken down by square footage in Federal buildings. Senator JOHNSTON. However, you do have that. You had to have that to get your square feet. Mr. SESSIONS. That is right. Senator JOHNSTON. Could you give the committee that information? Senator DIRKSEN. You could not assemble it between yesterday and this morning. Mr. SESSIONS. Yes, we could get it for the record. Senator JOHNSTON. I would like to have that. I think it would be well to have that. Mr. SESSIONS. We shall be very happy to do that. (The material referred to follows:) It is estimated roughly that the 2,500,000 square feet to be rehabilitated in Government-owned buildings would represent approximately 100 to 125 buildings. The 4,500,000 square feet of space in Government-owned buildings to be rehabilitated would represent approximately 200 to 225 buildings. ESTIMATES TENTATIVE Mr. SESSIONS. I would like to point out to the Senator that, because of a large number of intangible factors affecting the accuracy of these estimates, all estimates in this schedule are tentative and we would like to use the data only for the purpose of comparison of orders of magnitude. The reason I say that, gentlemen, is because we are dealing with a great number of cotnractors and private architects and various people, and it is not possible to know exactly how well they will keep their promises. But I think these are reasonable estimates and reasonable assumptions. I think under the pressure of a program of this type that we could expect about this kind of performance. any con Senator JOHNSTON. So it is true you have not entered into tracts? These are only estimates? These are the best estimates you could get? Mr. SESSIONS. That is right, sir. Mr. SUMMERFIELD. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make this observation at this point, that these are not finalized figures, of course, nor determinations of exact locations of some of these post offices, because there are a number of factors that could influence change. One region may require priority over another region, which only time will develop for us, and we could increase the number of new post offices and decrease, for instance, the amount of motorized equipment that we would buy. Senator ROBERTSON. Are there any further questions? Senator DIRKSEN. I think that is the story. I think that is what we wanted. |