Mr. THOMAS. Where is my State, about 26 or 27? Mr. THOMAS. Pretty high. Mr. KELLY. We have used the middle for it and under the new law we now have to determine the ADDITIONAL FUNDS REQUESTED Mr. THOMAS. Would you turn to the last page of your justifications. You want $5 million? Mr. KELLY. $1,815,000. Mr. THOMAS. You do not seek the full $5 million? Mr. KELLY. That is correct. Mr. THOMAS. It is going to be spent as follows: Delaware, $18,056: District of Columbia, $35,455; Idaho, $33,399; Maine, $145,725; and so forth. The entire list is already a part of the record. Are these all construction projects? Mr. KELLY. That is correct. Mr. THOMAS. How many different projects? The list says you have 11 of them and how many projects go to make up this figure of $1,815,573? As a matter of fact, you are going to spend about $3.5 to $4 million! This is only Federal funds? Mr. KELLY. The projects would involve considerably more money than the Federal share of $1.8 million. Mr. THOMAS. How much more? Another $1.8 million? Mr. MCCALLUM. No; it runs about five to one; five local dollars to one Federal. That is what our experience has been since the act was passed. Mr. THOMAS. It is not on a matching basis by any means, is it! When you get through with your formula, it is about 1 Federal to 4.5 local dollars? Mr. MCCALLUM. Yes, sir. There is one other point perhaps I did not make clear. The grant is not more than 30 percent of the cost of the project or $250,000 whichever is smaller. Mr. THOMAS. On the basis of that formula of per capita income and the number of people, how do you work out that formula? Mr. MCCALLUM. That formula on the per capita income and population is provided in the act. Mr. THOMAS. Allocated to the States? Mr. MCCALLUM. Yes; and then from that allocation the municipali ties come in for particular projects. If it should happen to be a larger project, the percentage would be less. Mr. THOMAS. No amount of Federal funds can exceed 30 percent of the entire cost of the project? Mr. MCCALLUM. That is correct. Mr. THOMAS. The way it usually works out is about 1 Federal dollar to 4 or 5 local dollars; is that the way it works out? Mr. KELLY. That is correct. Mr. THOMAS. How do you arrive at these figures of 1,815,573 Federal dollars? Mr. KELLY. We have allocated to the States the amount of money which the formula prescribes. They have applied for individual projects under that allocation and we have approved the projects in the same order in which we received them. The $1.8 million represents the Federal share of projects which are approvable within the allocation of $50 million, but which exceed the $45 million appropriation. FEDERAL SUPERVISION OVER PROJECTS Mr. THOMAS. The Federal Government has no say-so over the selection of the contractor or anything like that? Mr. KELLY. The State has to determine which projects have priority. The Federal Government has to determine that each project is in accordance with the requirements of law. Mr. THOMAS. The Federal Government is not the constructing agency? Mr. KELLY. That is correct. It is just a granting agency. Mr. THOMAS. The local communities pick their own contractors and so forth? Mr. KELLY. Yes. Mr. THOMAS. What supervision do you have over the price of the contract? Let us say that here is a contract that costs around $5 million and X municipality is going to let the contract for $5 million to Y contractor. Do you take a look at the contract to see that the price is somewhat near right and done by open competitive bidding, or do you require that? Mr. McCALLAM. Yes, sir; that is required. I might say that first of all these applications come to the States and all of these things we are talking about are carefully reviewed by the State agencies which, in most instances, are the health departments. Then beyond that they require competitive bidding. PROJECTS INCLUDED IN SUPPLEMENTAL REQUEST Mr. THOMAS. How many projects are involved in this $1,815,573 and how many are firm? Mr. MCCALLUM. I counted 22. Mr. THOMAS. We do not have a list of the projects. Do you have you can insert in the record? a list Mr. KELLY. Yes, sir. Mr. THOMAS. I beg your pardon. I see it is already in the record. Mr. KELLY. That is by State. project. Some of these are more than one Mr. THOMAS. Do you have any projects here? Mr. KELLY. No, sir; this is just a list of the total value. Mr. THOMAS. How many projects are involved in this $1,815,573? Mr. KELLY. We believe it is 22. Mr. THOMAS. Are they firm? Mr. KELLY. The States have submitted applications for these projects and they are awaiting approval for availability of funds. Mr. MCCALLUM. They have been submitted to us by the States. Mr. THOMAS. How firm is this figure of $1.8 million; do you need it all? Mr. KELLY. This is a firm figure. We now have applications submitted by the States for this amount of money which we cannot fund and as soon as the funds become available we will then approve the projects. Mr. JONAS. Will the chairman yield? Mr. THOMAS. Yes. Mr. JONAS. Have you given your approval to every one of the projects, subject to getting the money? Mr. KELLY. In effect, yes. Mr. JONAS. In effect? Mr. KELLY. The formal approval has to await the availability of funds. Mr. JONAS. But you have approved the projects subject to that? Hr. KELLY. We are prepared to approve them; yes, sir. Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Kirwan? Mr. KIRWAN. In what way are you prepared to approve them? Mr. KELLY. We are willing to advise the States, as soon as we have the funds available to fulfill the allotments we have made to them, that these projects are approved. Mr. KIRWAN. What is Puerto Rico doing with the $1,168,000 from the 1959 allotment? Mr. KELLY. So far, they have had approved projects only in the amount of $9,886 but they have pending projects that would add up to $689,410. Mr. KIRWAN. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Bow? Mr. Bow. No part of this amount is in the $600 million extra that the other body reported out for you? Mr. KELLY. No, sir. Mr. Bow, the Senate has not yet acted on our 1961 appropriation act. We understand that the subcommittee has marked up but we do not know the results as yet but we do know they are not considering this item and no funds in the regular bill would be available for these purposes. Mr. Bow. I looked at this language, and I cannot quite understand the language on page 27 of the committee print: To remain available until June 30, 1960, or until five days after the approval of this Act, whichever is later. Is the act approved? Mr. KELLY. NO. A couple of years ago the House enacted a supplemental like this which would have expired for obligational purposes on June 30 but the act was not signed by the President until after June 30, so that after you had given us the funds, we could not use them and had to come back and get a technical amendment to make them available. This language was drawn so that in the event this supplemental is not signed into law by June 30, these funds will be available for 5 days after the law is enacted and give us the opportunity to obligate them. Mr. Bow. In other words, if he does not sign by June 30 and you get this money, you have to hurry and in 5 days get rid of it? Mr. KELLY. That is correct, but we are prepared to obligate it within. 24 hours from the time it is enacted. Mr. Bow. I take it from an answer to one of Mr. Kirwan's questions, you have examined and approved every one of these projects? Mr. KELLY. That is correct. PROJECTS IN PUERTO RICO Mr. Bow. Let us get down to the subject of Puerto Rico about which Mr. Kirwan asked you some questions. What projects have been approved there? Mr. Bow. Where? Mr. MCCALLUM. Puerto Rico. Mr. Bow. I know, but that is a pretty big place and has a number of cities. Where is that to be done? Mr. THOMAS. Almost 700,000. Mr. Bow. Yes. Mr. MCCALLUM. These are six already approved. Mr. KELLY. The Puerto Rico Aqueduct Authority. We would have to supply you a list of these specific locations later. Mr. Bow. Send them up to me, will you, please? Mr. KELLY. Yes, sir. (The list requested follows:) Puerto Rico Aqueduct Authority--- Barranquitas___. San Lorenzo_ FaJarbo___. Ramal Oeste__. Miramar.. Puenta Las Marias.. $689, 410 44,100 53.400 107, 100 224,100 250,000 10, 710 FEDERAL SUPERVISION OF PROJECTS Mr. Bow. How much of an examination do you make? Mr. MCCALLUM. The act provides that the project has to be approved by the State authority. In Ohio that is the State Department of Health. The State has to certify that it complies with its State plan, for the prevention or control of water pollution. Then the State has to certify that that particular project has priority over other eligible projects and then that is certified and sent to the Public Health Service. Then there is what is called a grant offer by the Public Health Service. This covers certain conditions the municipality must meet. one of them being that they will finance the remaining cost of the project so that the Federal funds would not be tied up and not be used. Then they submit their engineering plans and specifications along with assurances and all of the engineering and technical data that technical people need to look this over to see that it is satisfactory. |