I might say that we were criticized on the Red River report by the same gentleman who is here, and that occurred some 3 or 4 days ago, because, as he said, "You are talking about rates. You cannot use traffic rates. Rail rates are going up and down." So, therefore, we go into the costs. That is a matter of judgment. We develop the total tonnage Senator ŎVERTON. I can understand all of that. Colonel FERINGA. I cannot answer regarding the 3,097 tons of salt in 1939 on the Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, and Tombigbee-Warrior waterways as compared with the estimated tonnage on the TombigbeeTennessee of 107,000. I would have to turn that over to our experts. Senator OVFRTON. Suppose you take the case of salt and see what you can find. Colonel FERINGA. Very well. Phosphate rock would largely be a predicted tonnage. One of the richest fields of phosphate rock is Florida, and undoubtedly the phosphate rock movement would originate there, due to the availability of that waterway up the Tennessee Valley. But they would not have any phosphate rock move there to any great extent. As to the matter of salt, I would like to see about that. Senator OVERTON. I am not asking you to go through all of these figures, but take this one item and see what is the matter with it. Colonel FERINGA. I will. Mr. PRINCE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to explain that these figures came from the report of the Army engineers, and this exhibit was put in before the House committee, and they have had quite a long time to look them up. Senator OVERTON. I want to find out about that item. Colonel FERINGA. As I see it, Mr. Chairman, you want me to look up the one item of salt, and then I will have completed my testimony on the Tombigbee-Tennessee project. Senator OVFRTON. Yes, sir. The committee will now recess until 2:30 o'clock this afternoon, at which time we will hear from Congressman Rankin. (Thereupon at 12:30 p. m. Friday, June 14, 1946, the committee recessed until 2:30 p. m. the same day.) (The additional information on salt is as follows:) TENNESSEE-TOMBIGBEE STATEMENT OF COL. P. A. FERINGA, DIRECTOR OF CIVIL WORKS, OFFICE, CHIEF OF ENGINEERS, UNITED STATES ARMY, WASHINGTON, D. C.-Resumed Colonel FERINGA. Finally, Mr. Chairman, I have the question of salt on the Tennessee-Tombigbee project. Can I put that in the record? Senator OVERTON. How long will that take? Colonel FERINGA. That will take only about 2 minutes. Senator OVERTON. I would like to hear about the salt. You may proceed. Colonel FERINGA. I have had to do much of this by telephone while I was listening to the testimony this afternoon, but it is obtained to the best of our information. In 1939 our annual report shows salt under the general heading of "nonmetallic mineral products." Under that general heading there are sulfur, salt, and items of that type. And, finally, there are other nonmetallic minerals. That catch-all item is used for the smaller amounts and there were accumulated on those 21,466 tons. I tried to find out how much of that could have been salt. The answer is, "Maybe all; and maybe none; probably a considerable quantity." The 107,000 tons in question in the report were routed mainly, actually routed movements from Louisiana as the bulk salt producing area available to a waterway. That salt would move to heavy industrial users on the Tennessee and the Ohio, such as have recently been located on the Tennessee River, as at Chattanooga; and those industries use bulk salt in tremendous quantities, and are of recent growth, mainly since 1938. They have been built on the water, so that they would be accessible to water transportation. I want to invite the attention of the committee again that the waterways have been made accessible to the salt-producing areas and the salt-consumption areas, that is, the bulk salt for industrial uses, only recently. For instance, the improvement of the waterway that reaches Jefferson Island was authorized by the last act. The salt that is now moving, and as an indication of the increase, 25,600 tons moved in 1942 on the Intercoastal Waterway, and the salt in question will move for bulk industrial use, because the waterway will be opened up. Now, to get that salt from Louisiana intercoastal waterway up the Mississippi River, up the Tennessee River, is a costly process. If the Tennessee-Tombigbee waterway is opened up it will be a comparatively cheap process. We justify the comparatively large amount of salt, due to the fact that a cheap waterway will be made available, and if industry is established on the waterways, it can avail itself of that cheap water rate. 1935. 1940 1943. Production of salt in the United States Tons 7,927, 000 10, 360, 000 15, 214, 000 It should be noted that salt production from 1939 to 1943 increased 60 percent. Also, that the rate of increase was twice as great during the period 1940 to 1943 as it was from 1935 to 1940. The salt companies sell rock salt in competition with salt imported from foreign countries and the cost for transportation is the major factor in the delivered price. It is not only necessary that they obtain the lowest available rates for transportation but also that they know, at the time the contracts are made, what rates will be in effect during the entire period of the contracts (226 ICC 699 at p. 700). Louisiana is one of the leading producers of salt. The areas of large production lie adjacent to the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway and the product is distributed to many of the States bordering on the improved channels to be connected with the Gulf Intracoastal by the lower-cost transportation to be provided by the Tennessee-Tombigbee project. Data furnished to the Board of Investigation and Research by the class I railroads covering their freight movement in 1939 show that the following-named States received rail shipments of Louisiana salt: Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Missouri. MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE INTERVIEW WITH MAJOR DE ANGELUS OF CHEMICAL WARFARE SERVICE (PROCUREMENT DIVISION) UNITED STATES WAR DEPARTMENT (From Industry Report of Department of Commerce Chemical Division, May 1946) States that shortages of chlorine and caustic soda and soda ash continue. Major De Angelus stated further that the demand for salt for industrial use especially in making chlorine, soda ash, caustic soda, and other alkalies has increased tremendously since 1939. Resumption of production by the steel mills, glass manufacturers, rubber goods manufacturers, etc., has stepped up the demand and created a critical shortage. None of the plants producing these chemicals out of salt for war purposes has been scrapped (June 1946) all are in production supplying industrial needs. This type of salt is crude rock salt adapted to transport loose in bulk in boxcars or covered barges. It does not require sacking for shipment. AFTERNOON SESSION The hearing was resumed at 2:30 p. m., upon the expiration of the recess, Senator John H. Overton presiding. Senator OVERTON. The committee will come to order. TENNESSEE-TOMBIGBEE WATERWAY, ALA. AND MISS.-resumed STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN E. RANKIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES FROM THE FIRST DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI Representative RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, I have listened very attentively to these hearings, not only before this committee but before the Committee on Rivers and Harbors of the House, and I often wonder if there ever was a waterway project that provided any transportation whatsoever that was approved by the railroads. Every time we undertake to develop water transportation we have a variety of opposition from the railroads and their statisticians. Some of them remind me of the old fellow in Louisville, who was employed by the Louisville & Nashville Railroad Co. He had been with that road for 29 years. One day the president of the company came in and someone said to him: "We have an old man who has been with the railroad 29 years and he has never missed a day." The president sent for him, and he was brought in, and the president said to him, "They tell me you have been with this company for 29 years and never missed a day." The old man said, "Yes, sir." The president said, "What is your job?" He replied, "When a car comes in I go up and down and tap the wheels with a hammer." "Why do you do that?" "Damned if I know." So the railroads do the same tapping every time there is a waterway project. If you shut your eyes, you would hardly know whether the matter involved was the Tombigbee or the Sacramento or the Missouri or any other river. It is all just about the same thing. Then here comes Mr. Corbett, representing the fellows who put on that strike last week, or were getting ready to, and he can't even remember what they are paid. He represents probably the highestpaid laborers in the country and is fighting a project that would relieve people who are just as able, hard working, and just as deserving. He said there was a toll on the roads in Wisconsin. I called up and I find that there is not anything at all to that. They have just the nominal license fees that they have on the highways in other States. Senator OVERTON. You mean, truck license fees? Representative RANKIN. Yes. He branded this as a communistic project. I do not think that if I were following Whitney, whose record I showed on the floor of the House the other day as connected with Communist front organizations was outstanding, I would be coming in here and branding the Ohio River project, the Illinois River project, the Tombigbee River project, the Sacramento River project, and all these other projects, as communistic. Of course I am used to that. I got used to it when I was helping to create the Tennessee Valley Authority. They had the same argument then, that it was a communistic scheme. Let us draw the line. Let us see where the difference comes between public and private enterprise. Rivers are public property. They belong to all the American people. That was not only written into the Constitution but decided recently in the Appalachian Power Co. case by the Supreme Court. The railroads tell you that all this power development, including the Tennessee Valley Authority, is communistic. The power business is a public not a private business. Electricity has now become a necessity in our modern life. It has to be handled by a monopoly. You cannot have four or five concerns supplying electricity to one town. The overhead would eat you up. Besides, water power already belongs to the Federal Government, just as does the surface and the flow of the stream. So, for anyone to come in here and brand as communistic all these waterway developments, including navigation and power, is just about as far afield as a man could get in making what he believes is a serious argument. Now, Mr. Chairman, there is no opposition to this project except from the railroads. It has been submitted to the Governors of the three States involved. That provision was written into the bill, that they submit these projects, where they traversed two or more States, to the Governors of those States. You may turn to the report and find the approval of all three of the Governors, the Governor of Alabama, the Governor of Mississippi, and the Governor of Tennessee. I think the Governor of Tennessee was a Member of Congress and voted for the project when it was up before. So we not only have him committed once, but we have him committed on the roll call. As I said, the only opposition is from the railroads, and they put in more time trying to localize it and make it appear that it affects only a little area than they did in discussing the real merits of the proposition. Let us see what the facts are. This [indicating on map] is the bottleneck in our great inland waterway system, this short neck connecting the Tennessee with the Tombigbee River. It has been said that in ancient times the Tennessee River flowed down the Tombigbee Valley; that sometime in prehistoric ages there was a great upheaval that turned the Tennessee northward right at the corner of Mississippi, at the mouth of Yellow Creek, where this project would end. It flows north to the Ohio River, joins the Ohio River at Paducah, and proceeds into the Mississippi at Cairo. A strange thing occurred in history. The Tennessee River was discovered by Hernando De Soto. He struck it in North Carolina, followed it down to Guntersville, left the river and went down to Tuscaloosa and had his great battle there with Chief Tuscaloosa. Then he turned north and went into northern Mississippi and spent the winter. When he left there he went west and discovered the Mississippi about where Memphis is, and he thought it was the same stream, just as you and I would have done. I have a copy of his map in my files, and I have inserted it in the record a time or two. De Soto's map shows the Tennessee River flowing on across here findicating] and curving southward. Whether there was ever any connection between it and the Mississippi River I do not know. The Tombigbee is formed by the confluence of Brown and Mackys Creeks, about 25 to 27 miles from the Tennessee River, and flows southward into Mobile Bay. For more than a hundred years there has been agitation in favor of a connection of those two streams; but I want to show you the barriers that made it practically impossible. In the first place, there is a sand ridge between the Tombigbee and the Tennessee, and up until 1938, when Pickwick Dam was built just below the mouth of Yellow Creek, you would have had to have lifts to raise the traffic up from the Tennessee River and also lifts to raise it up from the Tombigbee. There was no water at the summit. A small stream was there, but it was found to be of insufficient volume to supply the water necessary to operate these locks. I am familiar with this whole project. I was coauthor of the bill creating the Tennessee Valley Authority. I fought through every proposition to build every dam on the Tennessee River, in the House. When we built Pickwick Dam it raised the water 55 feet at the mouth of Yellow Creek, which made it possible to cut through this sand ridge. I think that up to that time engineers had contemplated going up Bear Creek which empties into the Tennessee River right on the boundary line between Alabama and Mississippi, 10 to 12 miles east of it. When they built this dam and raised the water level 55 feet higher they made it possible to cut through this sand ridge and place the summit of the project in the Tennessee River. Men came in and threw up their hands in holy horror because they said that at times the water got down to a foot deep on some of these wide shoals in the Tombigbee. As a matter of fact, if the Tombigbee were a dry ditch, even, the project would be justified, because the water to operate the first lock comes out of the Tennessee River and the summit of the project is in the Tennessee River where the supply of water is unlimited. Every time you use this lock [indicating on map] the water goes down into the next one, and then into the next one, and so on. But there is ample water after you get down to the confluence of Brown and Mackys Creeks, just below the first lock, to supply this project and keep it going for all time to come. It will shorten the water distance from the Tennessee River to Mobile or to the Gulf of Mexico by 807 miles. I know it has been said that these things should not be counted, but I deny that we should not include national defense in all our calculations when it comes to developing our waterways. Senator OVERTON. Let me say in that connection that as I understand it the Board of Engineers have considered certain factors; that is, actual benefits and actual costs. However, Congress itself when |