96884-63-pt. 4-13

Mr. ROBERTSON. The bulk of the increased employment has been in the agencies not directly related to the farm program as such. Most of this increase has been in new programs and new activities in the the Agricultural Marketing Service, Agricultural Research Service program, Soil Conservation Service, and the Forest Service.

Mr. HORAN. On page 102 of the committee print it says under "General administration" under personnel compensation, permanent positions, 1962 actual, 793; estimate for 1963, 1,517; estimate for 1964, 1,977. That does not say what it means, I guess?

MAN-YEAR REDUCTION TO MODE

Mr. GRANT. This has to do, Mr. Horan, with the working capital fund. The Congress established in 1944 a working capital fund for financing centralized services at the departmental level. This fund finances central purchasing and supply operations, mimeographing and reproduction operations, central arts and graphics and photographic work in the Office of Information, central library photocopying services, and certain other central services. We can put a complete list of them in the record. In fact, they are, I believe, on page 101 of the committee print.

But in addition this fund is now being used to provide for the centralized payrolling and other personnel statistics and other services under the automatic data processing operation at New Orleans. Mr. HORAN. MODE?

Mr. GRANT. Yes, and this increase in personnel is largely associated with the increased operations being put under this fund in 1964 as compared with 1963.

Mr. HORAN. That is the cost we are talking about?

Mr. GRANT. That is correct.

Mr. HORAN. The total number of permanent positions was 172 in 1962, 397 in 1963, and the same number for this year under "General administration"?

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir.

Mr. HORAN. That is better than a 100-percent increase.

Mr. GRANT. Yes. When we reported on this last year we indicated there were about 500 people throughout the Department engaged in this work at the present time. We estimated that the consolidation at New Orleans would require about 250 people there so that there would be a reduction of over 200 employees overall.

Mr. HORAN. That is what I am interested in.

Mr. GRANT. In this budget there is a reduction of $1.3 million resulting from this consolidated operation. It is shown in the estimates for the agencies and does involve a reduction in personnel in the individual agencies. In addition, there is a greater reduction in number of people because they are being shifted from the individual items to the working capital fund operation.

Mr. HORAN. I wish you would supply for the record a table that clearly indicates this, because we have had discussion before about what is in the summary tables in the unabridged budget, and there is a difference. We have already discussed it but this would appear to be a good place to have a table that would clearly reflect your own estimates, both personnel and the cost of running these things.

Mr. GRANT. Yes, sir.

(The table requested follows:)

The total cost of personnel and payrolling functions transferred to the MODE operation in fiscal year 1964 is estimated at $3,237,200. The cost of doing this work under the centralized data processing operation, however, is estimated at only $1,883,000. The difference of $1,354,200 is reflected in the 1964 budget as savings to agencies as follows:

Agricultural Research Service_
Extension Service_-_.

Farmer Cooperative Service__
Soil Conservation Service_
Economic Research Service_
Statistical Reporting Service_
Agricultural Marketing Service.

Foreign Agricultural Service_-_

Commodity Exchange Authority.

Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation Service..

Federal Crop Insurance Corporation___

Rural Electrification Administration__

Farmers Home Administration__.

Office of the General Counsel_.

Office of Information__

National Agricultural Library

Total___

$369,000

9,500

3,000

372,000

8,000

8,000

205,000

20,000

5,000

211, 000 24,000 12,000

97, 000

4,000

6,000

700

1,354, 200

As of the last study, it is estimated that there will be a net savings of 241 man-years due to the installation of this program. It is estimated that personnel involved in doing this work prior to the installation of the centralized data processing operation amounted to 563 man-years. The 1964 budget includes 322 man-years under the working capital fund for this work to be accomplished under MODE. A breakdown of this data follows:

Man-years in functions transferred to MODE

Agency

Agricultural Research Service_
Extension Service____

Farmer Cooperative Service__

Soil Conservation Service__

Economic Research Service and Statistical Reporting Service-

Agricultural Marketing Service___.

Foreign Agricultural Service__

Commodity Exchange Authority

Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation Service_

Federal Crop Insurance Corporation__.

Rural Electrification Administration_.

Farmers Home Administration___

Office of the General Counsel_.

Office of Information__.

National Agricultural Library

Office of the Secretary

Food Service..........

Total

Deduct man-years required to operate system--

Net reduction‒‒‒‒‒

Mr. HORAN. You mentioned pulling things together under "General administration." I assume that is to enable you to get better oper

ations?

Mr. ROBERTSON. You are talking now about the memorandum consolidating management services of the 17 agencies?

Mr. HORAN. Yes.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Yes, the purpose of this is to do two things, sir.

Mr. HORAN. And you indicate this reflects decreases elsewhere? Mr. ROBERTSON. Let me be sure we are talking about the same thing. We were talking, when Mr. Grant was speaking, about the reflection of a saving of $1.3 million in the budget.

Mr. HORAN. Because of MODE.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Yes, because of MODE.

Mr. HORAN. Economic research reflects $8,000 and at the same time their budget request has gone up. Statistical reporting reflects $8,000, but their budget has risen from somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 million to $6 million up to an overall complete budget of $12 million in 10 years.

Mr. GRANT. This is related to the improvement in the crop reporting system.

Mr. ROBERTSON. There is no increase for personnel to do the job that that $8,000 reduction represents.

Mr. HORAN. Marketing services indicates a saving of $116,700; and all these added together indicate a decrease of $1.3 million-plus all told?

Mr. GRANT. That is correct.

Mr. HORAN. But the overall request of each shows an increase.

Mr. ROBERTSON. That is correct, sir; but I say again, there are no increases in personnel for the job is involved in the reduction of $1.3 million in these agencies.

Mr. HORAN. When we instituted MODE we expected to find decreases, but we also find some new ways of spending money. What we would like to have is a showing of a decrease, if possible, because you have increased the efficiency and the per man work results of everybody; but we still go up in the budget.

Mr. ROBERTSON. In the program areas, Mr. Horan. MODE relates to the management aspect of operations, such as payrolling. This is where there is a saving.

If we had not had MODE, our 1964 estimates would total $1.3 million more than they do. I know that is a small amount compared to the increases we have, but it would have been that much larger had it not been for MODE, sir.

Mr. HORAN. Well, we have already gone over that, or you did with the chairman.

Mr. ROBERTSON. On the memorandum consolidating management services, I think it was the thought of the Department that we do not need in each of the small agencies a personnel officer, a budget officer, and an administrative services officer, and if you combine the talents of these people and pull them together in one place, there will be some savings. We think, for example, that the personnel staff will be more skillful and more highly specialized because they will not be scattered in all these small offices. When vacancies occur I hope we will not have to fill them until we get down to minimum staffing. The same is true in the budget and administrative services areas.

I hope in the period of a year or so we will be able to show this committee that we have achieved a saving. I told Mr. Kiefer, who is in charge of this operation, that we want to know what savings he achieves as a result of this action. We will have a detailed listing of the personnel and money that goes in this operation now and what it is a year from now and 2 years from now. If we do not do the