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inclusion of the Council will guarantee a the automotive industry, in his standfree flow of information between Fed- ards-setting process. With this admiseral authorities, State, and local bodies sion, the committee stated its preference concerned with the bulk of the safety ef- that such consultations be provided for fort envisioned in this act and supple- by law. mented by H.R. 13290, through driver The committee has treated the probLicensing and vehicle inspection proce- lem of safety standards for used cars by dures, the industries affected, and the including in section 108 a mandate that ultimate consumer of the vehicle the at the end of 1 year from the date of general public. With the Council, in- enactment of this act, the Secretary shall 19632 dustry can advise the Federal Govern- complete a study of the problems relating ment and other interested parties of the to the safety standards for used vehicles, safety innovations it has made in auto- and make recommendations to the Conmotive design, thus guaranteeing against gress for any additional legislation he any established Federal standards be- feels necessary. It is the intent of my coming a ceiling on performance, rather amendment that no later than 1 year than a minimum of performance. This from the date of the submission of the advice will guarantee against & status Secretary's report, the Secretary, after quo in engineering progress. Also, pub- consultation with the Council and other lic members can advise on needs and de- interested public or private agencies, mands of safety.

shall establish Federal vehicle safety inThe establishment of an Advisory spection standards applicable to used Council has precedence in the executive motor vehicles. These inspection standbranch of the Government. For ex- ards, expressed in terms of vehicle perample, the Defense Department has a formance, may be revised by the Secrenumber of industry advisory councils to tary from time to time after advice from work with departmental officials even in the Council. In this mandate to the such delicate questions as procurement Secretary, such used car safety inspecand materiel specifications, as well as tion standards would become effective research and engineering development. upon issue by the Secretary or within a The Surgeon General of the United reasonable time thereafter. The full efStates has and is effectively utilizing ad- fect of these used car inspection standvisory councils in matters such as the ards lies in the enforcement provisions awarding of contract grants for medical seen in H.R. 13290, which offers grant inresearch.

centives and withholds Federal road conThe Secretary of Commerce has stated struction funds to hasten adoption of vethat the Department intends to consult hicle inspections by the States. with the appropriate parties, including

Congressional Record-House
August 17, 1966, 19633

Mr. YOUNGER.

Mr. Chairman, I am in favor of the visory Council which he himself chooses. bill. I voted for it in committee and I We had better abolish the Advisory hope we can change the appointment of Council rather than to have a self-serythe Advisory Council to a Presidential ing Advisory Council. appointment, confirmed by the other Mr. Chairman, I am in favor of the bill body.

and I hope that it passes. Mr. Chairman, I believe it is wrong to have the Secretary appoint an Ad

Congressional Record-House
August 17, 1966, 19638 and 19639

19639

Mr. GROSS. Will it be within the As recommended in the highway safety scope of the Advisory Council to do some- bill, the “Committee shall advise, conthing about driving while intoxicated? sult with and make recommendations to, As previous speakers have stated this is the Secretary on matters relating to his one of the worst contributions to auto- activities and functions in the field of mobile accidents.

highway safety.” As established under Mr. WATSON. As far as the Advisory the motor vehicle safety bill, the SecreCouncil is concerned, they are to work tary "shall seek the advise and recomwith the Secretary, the Secretary having mendations of the Advisory Committee the ultimate authority, in the promulga- before establishing, amending, or revoktion of safety standards for the automo- ing any motor vehicle safety standards." bile itsell--and not for the operation or Since the effects of this legislation will not for the operator. Production is one bring the control of at least minimum part of it, but the operation is the most Federal standards down into the very important factor.

heart of State and local powers, I feel Mr. STAGGERS. Mr. Chairman, I that the proposed Advisory Committee yield to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. must be more than a paper organization. PICKLE) whatever time he might require. If I could have my way, I would make it

Mr. PICKLE. Mr. Chairman, I recom- much stronger. mend passage of this measure because This is one advisory Committee that the principles are sound and they are must be made to function, and I am needed in the public interest.

hopeful that, with the establishment of I found in the discussion of this legis- the Committee, it will not only serve a lation that the manufacturing industry useful purpose, but that a proper Statehas welcomed the opportunity to help Federal relationship will be established establish fair and reasonable motor ve- and maintained. hicle standards. I have found that the Traditionally, such functions as motor Governors of the States welcome the op- vehicle registration, driver licensing, veportunity to establish fair and reason. hicle inspection, and trafic enforcement able standards with respect to the opera- have been left to the individual States. tion of highway safety programs. If we allow the Federal Government to

One provision that we have established have control of this responsibility, then in this legislation and in the legislation the lure or appeal of grant money-withthat follows (HR. 13290) is the medium out their full approval-could lead to a of the Advisory Committee. I should like Federal police system, which I am sure to point out to this House that this is one no one wants. time that this kind of committee must be It has been under the States' leadermade to work in an effective manner. ship, direction, and financing that many There has been a feeling down the street of the highway safety programs were esover the years that an advisory commit- tablished and carried out. Whatever tee provided in legislation is just some- programs we have made over the years thing to be suffered with. We are trying have been through State leadership, not to provide in this legislation that we Federal leadership. give these people the industry, the In my home State, for example, an efStates, and the public voice in estab- fective annual vehicle inspection law has lishing the standards, and then the pub- been on the books for many years. Our lic interest will be helped, as it should highways are reportedly the best of any be.

State, and our department of public I would Uke to recommend passage of safety has long been recognized as perthe motor vehicle and trafic safety legis- haps the most effective in the Nation. lation that is before us today, and espe- I insist that the establishment of the cially call to the attention of my col- National Highway Safety Committee and leagues a provision of this legislation and the Motor Vehicle Safety Advisory Coma provision in H.R. 13290 that I feel is of mittee will mean a continuation of the paramount importance.

progressive State efforts in the field of I am making reference to the estab- highway safety. Ushment of the National Highway Safety It seems to me that it would be logical Advisory Committee-H.R. 13290_and and proper to call on the State experts, the Motor Vehicle Safety Advisory Com- such as Col. Homer Garrison, director of mittee-H.R. 13228.

the Texas Department of Public Safety, to help formulate highway safety plans. have done the only job. By and large Not to take proper advantage of the the States have done a good job. I do knowledge and experience of such men admit that we have reached & point as Colonel Garrison-or the various where we must have a clear delineation States-would appear to be wasteful. of authority between the Federal and

The increasing number of deaths on State Governments if we are to establish our highways has given birth to this leg- much needed minimum standards, but islation. I strongly assert that even I do not subscribe to the position that though such laws are necessary to curb each State has done a poor job in this this death toll, I trust that they would held of trafic safety. Indeed the numnot lead to only minimum participation ber of deaths and injuries per million by our States.

miles traveled during the past 5 years Somehow, the feeling has developed in my State and I believe most States throughout these hearings that “since has declined percentagewise most subthe States have failed to take proper stantially. This credit should be given steps by estabHshing uniform safety the States. If we are to have a meaningstandards, the Federal Government must ful highway safety program or motor now step in and do it for them.” This vehicle safety standards in the years to simply is not the case. It is better to come, it must be with the continued say that neither has done & sumicient leadership of the States. job, but the plain truth is that the States

Congressional Record-House
August 17, 1966, 19660-19662

AMENDMENT OTTERED BY MR. SPRINGE. jected to the language “by the PresiMr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman, I

dent with the advice and consent of the offer an amendment.

Senate." The Clerk read as follows:

Now, if I were the Secretary of Com

merce, I might want it that way. The Amendment offered by Mr. SPRINGB: On page 34, 11ne 14, strike out "Secretary," and

Advisory Council as we set it up apinsert in lleu thereof the following: "Presi.

pointed by the President with the addent with the advice and consent of the

vice and consent of the Senate is a Senate,".

pretty independent body, because it re

ceives the final approval of the Senate. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman, in

It was our feeling that a body as imview of this being, I think, only one of

portant as this, which is going to make two amendments, I would like to ask

up standards for this country in conunanimous consent that I be allowed to

sultation with the Secretary of Comproceed for 3 additional minutes.

merce, ought not to be under the imThe CHAIRMAN. Is there objection

mediate domination of the Secretary. So to the request of the gentleman from the Secretary began to exert pressure on Illinois?

everybody, including me, to see if he There was no objection.

could get this changed back from the Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman, this way that the gentleman from Florida, has to do with the Advisory Council. We (Mr. ROGERS) has put it into the bill feel that the formation of the Advisory finally. That amendment carried in the Council was one of the real important committee 13 to 12. Thirteen for making parts of this legislation. This Council the change to give all of the power to the is composed of 13 members, of which one Secretary with no hearings on the apis the chairman. Now, at the beginning pointment of the members of the Adthe original legislation had the provi- visory Council. I am sure if the Secresion as I want it in it. May I say this tary of Commerce had not intervened, is a rather unique situation. The gen- this bill would have remained exactly tleman from Florida (Mr. ROGERS) of- as it was. It was only because of the fered the first amendment and we pressure of the Secretary of Commerce adopted it. Under that amendment the that the change was made. bill then read that it, the Council, would Why is this not in the public interest? be appointed by the President with the I think that is pretty important to know. advice and consent of the Senate. Now, Under the language now in the bill, the within a very few days after this the Secretary of Commerce can appoint Secretary of Commerce strenuously ob- those 13 people this afternoon and they

go to work tomorrow morning and the The members of the Committee may first time anybody would know about well say that the President and the Secit is when those men were on the job, or retary are probably acting together. you read about it in the newspaper. Perhaps, they are. Perhaps, the PresiThere is no intervening time for any- dent is going to make the appointments body to make any objection. You would that the Secretary wants to have made. not even know who the candidates But the important thing is that when were.

these recommended appointments get to Mr. Chairman, this Council of 13 peo- the Senate, you will have a right to quesple is going to advise the Secretary on tion these men individually. automobile safety standards for 93 mil- Mr. Chairman, this is a very simple lion automobiles of which there will amendment. I have tried to explain it. roughly be 160 million people driving.

in language which everyone can underMr. Chairman, i there is anything stand. I believe it is important to sepathat can affect every home in this coun- rate this Advisory Council from being try more, I do not know what it is.

under the immediate instructions of the Now, Mr. Chairman, the amendment Secretary, and that is the reason for the which I have offered would strike out amendment. “Secretary” and insert "President with

Mr. Chairman, in the committee it lost the advice and consent of the Senate." by onio a vote o

by only a vote of 13 to 12. This will give Mr. Chairman, why is it important to to the members of the Committee an idea put this provision in here? In the irst as to how close the vote was, and may I place, everyone of these 13 members say that the vote was bipartisan. should be publicly exposed by a hearing Mr. STAGGERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise

in the Senate. I do not mean held up to in opposition to the amendment. 19661 ridicule: of course not. What I mean is

Mr. Chairman, I shall not take the full that when the President nominates them, within 30 days they will come down to

5 minutes, I just want to call upon the the Senate for confirmation and there

author of the amendment, because he is

the one who sponsored it, the gentleman will be a hearing on each one of these 13

from Florida (Mr. ROGERS).
people.
Mr. Chairman, there should be ques-

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Mr. Chairtions put to each of these appointees as

man, I thank the chairman of the Comto their qualifications.

mittee on Interstate and Commerce for Therefore, Mr. Chairman, you would

yielding to me at this time.

Mr. Chairman, I likewise rise in ophave an opportunity to examine those people. If they are not qualified, then

position to the amendment. they should not be accepted in the public

Actually, as has been explained, when interest-if their record indicates in the

I first offered this amendment I did have past that they were not capable of act

the Advisory Safety Council appointed ing in the public interest.

by the President and its members to be Mr. Chairman, there is a second reason

confirmed by the Senate. why we wanted the Council to be rela

Without any pressure, if I may say to tively independent. In other words, Mr.

the gentleman from Illinois, but simply Chairman, they should be standing up

as a result of discussions I had with repfor the public interest and they should

resentatives of the Department of Comnot be under the domination of the

merce, I changed my mind as to the adSecretary. I know that Members on both

visability of having the President appoint sides of the aisle were for the Advisory

the Council. The Commerce Department Council but said that the Advisory Coun

tried to point out to me what it felt were cil ought to be making its recommenda

the deficiencies in the amendment as it tions in writing so that there would be no

was first offered. I agreed with the Dedoubt that the Council was acting in the

partment and offered an amendment to public interest.

change the provision from having the In other words, Mr. Chairman, we

President appoint the Council to having

the Secretary appoint the members. have made it impossible for the Secre

First of all, the purpose of this Countary to consult with two or three of these

cil is to advise the Secretary. It is not to people and put these standards into

advise the President. It is not to advise operation tomorrow and say that they

the Cabinet. It is to advise the Secrehad been consulted.

tary of Commerce, on trying to set stand. Mr. Chairman, we made it mandatory

ards. that the Secretary had to consult with

Where do we place the responsibility the Advisory Council.

in this bill for the setting of standards? Mr. Chairman, this is the reason why We do not place it in the President-we this Council should be independent.

place it in the Secretary of Commerce,

and it is his full responsibility. It is only authority or the power of the Secretary right that he should appoint this group of Commerce. to help advise him. That is all it is. He The gentleman from Florida knows full does not have to accept their advice - well that the final authority is vested or he may accept their advice if he so in the Secretary. But I believe it will be desires. It is simply an advisory com- more meaningful to have this Advisory mittee for the Secretary.

Council appointed by the same method Furthermore, I think we are protected as my friend from Florida originally under the terms of office in that we have suggested. certain set terms, and independence I fall thus far to see the deficiencies enough for any advisory committee. We that suddenly manifested themselves begive them set terms that the members tween the original proposal and the lastwill serve. We have precedent for that. minute suggestion which just passed by

That is the same way it is done in the the skin of its teeth with a 13-to-12 vote. Public Health Service, the Surgeon Gen- I would urge the Committee to adopt eral appoints the advisory committee to the amendment of the gentleman from advise him. In the Department of De- Illinois. It will give us a stronger bill. fense we have the same sort of setup. It will not diminish the authority of the The advisory committees there are ap- Secretary of Commerce at all. I believe pointed by the Secretary, and not by the it will add immeasurably to the prestige President.

of this Advisory Council as they try to I think that an overall view of the pur- wrestle with this tremendously imporpose of the Safety Advisory Council as tant problem with which we are conset out in the proposed bill to advise the fronted. Secretary, who has the full responsibil- Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Mr. Chairity, is exactly as the committee should be man, will the gentleman yield? appointed and set up.

Mr. WATSON. I yield to my friend, I would urge very vigorously the defeat the gentleman from Florida. of the amendment as proposed by the Mr. ROGERS of Florida. I thank my gentleman from Illinois.

friend, the gentleman from South CaroMr. WATSON. Mr. Chairman, I move lina. I would say that it was not just to strike the last word.

at the last day. Of course, the substitute Mr. Chairman, my friend from Florida was put in the last day, but there were knows full well the high esteem that I discussions before that. have for him, and certainly I for one Mr. WATSON. I am sure the gentlewould never impugn his motives.

man knows there was later discussion But I well recall, as I am sure the after your original proposal. other members of the committee will Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Yes. recall, the persuasiveness and the elo- Mr. WATSON. And then it was voted quence of the gentleman from Florida down on that occasion. It was denied. when he first proposed this Advisory Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Yes. Council. It was his idea that it be ap- Mr. WATSON. And it was narrowly pointed by the President, with the advice passed on the last day. and consent of the Senate. He did anMr. ROGERS of Florida. All I wanted excellent job. He convinced us on it. to say was that at that time I had made

It was not until the last day that they the change. But, no matter, the fact came back with the idea that the Council that I first proposed it, as you say, I did must be appointed by the Secretary have the President appoint them.

Now, let me say why I can support the In further consideration of that quesamendment of the gentleman from n- tion I felt it would not be wise. If we linois. We have a serious problem con- would give this Council the right to set Ironting us. I want this Advisory Coun- the standards themselves and the recil to have as much prestige and respect sponsibility to do that, then I would as possible. I firmly believe that if it agree with the gentleman that it should goes through the process of recommen- be a presidentially appointed body. dation by the President, plus the advice However, in a situation where we will and consent of the Senate, that this have given the authority to and will hold Council indeed will have national pres- the Secretary responsible, surely it is tige. and we will get the best possible only proper that the advisory body members on this Council.

should be appointed by him. Bear in mind this: Whether you have Mr. WATSON. I refuse to yield furit by the method suggested by the gen- ther. If I might make this statement in tleman from Illinois, or whether you reply, I am sure the gentleman from will leave it as it is presently in the bill, Florida will agree with me that an ad. you are not diminishing one iota the visory council appointed by the Presi

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