Mr. SIKES. Yes.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Will somebody review what the $48 million in the SOSUS program is for?

Admiral MASON. To understand the SOSUS program there are several things.

There are others which you have perhaps seen, and that is the facility itself. That may have more than one station in it.

We are not talking about the facilities themselves. When we lump the whole program then you get to the total SOSUS program itself. (Discusion off the record.)

Mr. LIPSCOMB.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Admiral MASON. I think we are.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. That is what Secretary McNamara said. I am willing to accept the Navy's version.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. LIPSCOMB.

Is this coming out of your funds in any way?

Admiral MASON. Not out of my funds which I spoke of here.
Admiral KARABERIS.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Who is handling this?

Admiral KARABERIS.

Admiral MASON. If we were doing procurements we would know about it. They are not in this budget.

Let us provide that.

Admiral KARABERIS.

Admiral ENSEY. Through my office we contact foreign countries to whom the United States is giving military assistance or military sales.

I am certain we would do that because we are trying technically to convince them and to coach them into doing their own defense. That is my assumption.

Mr. LIPSCOMB.

Admiral ENSEY. Yes, highly sensitive.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Do you feel it is a good idea to put this technical capability into the hands of a foreign power at this point?

Admiral ENSEY. If it is a matter of technical know-how we are doing that all over the world.

Mr. LIPSCOMB.

Admiral ENSEY.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. That is what I am talking about.

Admiral ENSEY. Each line item of equipment goes through a release judgment by the Secretary of the Navy, with a board participating, to decide whether the subject is too secret and too sensitive to let it go, or not, before it is released. It would have to go through such a step.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. LIPSCOMB. It appears from the statement which was made that it is pretty well along the way. Somebody has already evaluated whether they should have technical support.

I hope this is looked at carefully, particularly with the problems we have in that whole area of the world.

Admiral ENSEY. I will confirm this and get some additional light shed on the question.

(Classified information was submitted.)

Mr. RHODES. The statement as I remember it was to the effect that we would furnish technical support to the Is that correct? Mr. LIPSCOMB. The rest of the statement reads "and in as much as we would be able to use the technical data it generates we propose to supply them the required technical support."

Mr. RHODES. Who in the Navy would be furnishing that technical support?

Admiral ENSEY. The technical support would be in the way of devices and in the way of spare parts. It might be in the way of assemblies, and it would come through Admiral Mason. He would be the agent to procure and distribute to them and then back them up with spares and technical know-how, and so on.

Admiral MASON. There would have been many preliminary negotiations before it gets to my level.

Mr. RHODES. The Secretary of Defense indicates this is underway. Yet, the man through whose shop this has to go does not even know about it.

Admiral MASON. That is very possible.

It could have come into his shop.

It would be done through the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations and through normal channels. We can verify it.

Admiral ENSEY. It would pass me on the way to him.

Mr. RHODES. Is any portion of this type of equipment furnished to any nation in the world under the military assistance program? Admiral ENSEY. I would think not.

Mr. RHODES. I hope not.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I would hope the Navy was as firm in its opinion on this exchange as it was on the sale of the STAR-3 research submarine to the Soviet Union, which means that I hope it would not be done.

Admiral MASON. We operate our own stations.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. That is a different matter.

Admiral MASON. There is no agreement I know where we give the data or let them operate it.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Not knowing a whole lot about it I would not mind the Navy operating it in the

Admiral MASON.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Then we could give the information to

PROCUREMENT OF AUTOMATIC DATA PROCESSING EQUIPMENT

Mr. SIKES. $5.7 million is requested for automatic data processing equipment for aircraft support. Where would this equipment be located?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. A portion of the fiscal year 1968 buy is to be located at the various air stations for support of the 3-M maintenance management system. Also, one unit is to go into the Pacific missile range at Point Mugu to furnish capability required there.

This computer replaces two smaller computers now at Point Mugu. One of these will go to the Naval Avionics Facility in Indianapolis for research purposes and the other to NAS, Pensacola.

Mr. SIKES. Can you identify savings which will result from this procurement?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN, I would like to furnish that for the record. (Information follows:)

The majority of the ADP equipment planned for procurement in FY 1968 is to provide the Navy with a capability which it does not now have. Improved readiness resulting from the Standard Navy Material Maintenance Management System (3-M) cannot be measured in dollar terms. The annual savings in rental and other associated costs for equipment now being leased is estimated at $313 thousand.

PROCUREMENT OF SHOP SUPPORT AND SERVICING EQUIPMENT

Mr. SIKES. On page 38 there is a large program for the procurement of various types of shop support and servicing equipment. Tell us something more about the requirements for these rather large programs.

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. This equipment is required to maintain, refurbish, replace, or augment test servicing, handling, and maintenance equipment used in line maintenance and also in the overhaul and repair shop. This equipment is handling and maintenance equipment provided for all Navy and Marine Corps aviation facilities.

Mr. SIKES. This seems to be a larger buy than usual. Is there a particular requirement for this large buy?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. We have reevaluated the requirement in view of the Southeast Asia operation and by sampling techniques at the Aviation Supply Office we have gotten a total requirement. We have split the total requirement between the 1967 and 1968 programs. The increase in the estimate for 1968 reflects the initial buy of Versatile Avionic Shop Test equipment.

Mr. SIKES. Spell out for the record the specific savings, if there are savings, to be generated by these programs.

To what extent have you been able to standardize on the procurement of items such as mobile electric powerplants, motor generators, testers, power supply units, and panels, within the Navy?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. We have not been too successful in the past in standardizing. We are involved in a program to attempt to standardize wherever possible because of the complexities in supporting this equipment both aboard ship and at the shore station.

Mr. SIKES. What have been the difficulties in getting this equipment standardized?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. The principal difficulty, as I see it, is that each aircraft or equipment manufacturer has designed his device without regard to the support equipment which is available, and then we must produce support equipment to meet the specific needs.

We are attempting now to shift to a system which will require that a contractor take into consideration the existing equipment before proceeding.

Mr. ANDREWs. How about with reference to the Air Force? Also give an answer with regard to the Army.

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. We always check to see what is available of the type equipments we require.

Mr. ANDREWS. Have you tried to standardize these plans?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Yes, sir, wherever possible. Wherever there is a piece of equipment which meets our requirement, we do this.

We can use the Versatile Avionics Shop Testing equipment as an example of our standardizing efforts. This is a new device designed to test as much as 85 percent of all our avionics equipment. It is a computer-controlled modular system.

STATUS OF THE VERSATILE AVIONIC SHOP TEST SYSTEM

Mr. ANDREWS. What is the present status of the Versatile Avionic Shop Test System for which you are requesting $22.1 million?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. It is in development. We hope to have these seven installations starting in calendar 1968. VAST will initially support the Integrated Helicopter Avionics System.

Mr. ANDREWS. Will it have servicewide application?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. It will progressively go to servicewide application.

Mr. ANDREWS. Where will the systems be located?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Santa Ana, New River, Futema, Danang, Japan, North Island, and Cherry Point.

Mr. ANDREWS. How many of those types of helicopters do you have? Admiral CHRISTENSEN. I will have to check that.

(Classified information was submitted.)

Mr. ANDREWS. Would you say that you had a few or many of those helicopters?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Many.

Mr. ANDREWS. What is the total cost of this program?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Total investment through fiscal 1972 is $278 million. We expect that over a 20-year period this will provide a net gain to us on the order of $1 billion in special support equipment which we do not have to buy.

The principal objective of this equipment is to first save personnel requirements. It will require 25 percent fewer people with lesser skills to operate to support the same number of aircraft.

It should require about 50 percent of the space.

The savings which we can expect to get in the immediate future will be minimal. It will not be until about 1970 or 1971 that we will see the results, when the impact of this will show.

Mr. ANDREWS. What will this system provide?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. The intermediate level test and the depot level test of 85 percent of all the avionics equipment. It will identify down to the so-called bit and piece the fault in the equipment.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you have anything comparable to it today? Admiral CHRISTENSEN. No, sir. We have so-called semiautomatic checkout equipment which is a much earlier version. It is a generation in back of this equipment.

Mr. ANDREWS. Most of this type of work is done manually today? Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Not all of it. We use tapes to run the system to perform the checks.

Mr. ANDREWS. What helicopter will this support?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Immediately the first test will be with the CH-46 and the CH-53. We will also check the A-7, certain parts of the A-7.

This is a progressive development. New equipment will have test points designed in so we can check it with VAST.

Mr. ANDREWS. You have spent approximately $278 million to date? Admiral CHRISTENSEN. $278 million is the expected cost through fiscal 1972, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. According to the figures that Mr. Sanders has here you have a total of 136 CH-46 and C-53's. The cost for servicing these 136 craft is $21.3 million, under the VAST program.

Is that a little high?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Yes, sir, but this is merely the initial installation. This is the objective of the system. It will be able to support all the aircraft at the location. It is merely being put in initially to support these particular ones and perform a proof and demonstration of the capability at that point.

Mr. ANDREWS. Will you fly choppers to these stations to be tested? Admiral CHRISTENSEN. These are the principal operating stations where the helicopters will be located. We would not perform the intermediate type maintenance on the equipment for these aircraft other than at these points.

Mr. ANDREWS. You think this is a money-saving program over the years?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. It will be expensive for the first few years but it will enable us to shift aircraft types on board a carrier by merely changing the tapes we put in the test equipment rather than the current problem we have. If we change from an A-6 to an A-7, for example, we now have to rip out test equipment at considerable expense, and so on.

Mr. SIKES. Are O. & M. funds required in support of the program? Admiral CHRISTENSEN. Yes, sir. There will be minor installation

costs.

Mr. SIKES. How are you meeting currently the requirement for which you propose the seven VAST test stations?

Admiral CHRISTENSEN. We are not supporting the same equipment at these stations at this time, sir. The equipment with which this will be initially associated is still in development.

Mr. SIKES. Spell out for the record what specific savings will result from this portion of the total program.

(Information follows:)

It is estimated that VAST System will permit savings in special support equipment purchased under the "Procurement of Aircraft and Missiles, Navy" appropriation, beginning in Fiscal Year 1970. Based on the programs contained in the tentatively approved Five Year Defense Program, net savings are estimated as follows: FY 1970-$17.1 million, FY 1971-$63.3 million, FY 1972— $51.3 million.

COMPATIBILITY OF VAST SYSTEM WITH ARMY AND AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT

Mr. SIKES. Can you tell us how the Army meets its requirement in this area?