Mr. BECKER. A little below the average.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. And yet, with a crop that is just slightly below average, the farmers are unable to pay their taxes? Mr. BECKER. Yes.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. And likewise unable to pay their interest?

Mr. BECKER. Yes.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. If this condition continues, with average crops and that is all you can expect is there any hope for the farmers to retain possession of their lands?

Mr. BECKER. Absolutely no hope at all.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. If that should happen, as you fear, of course, the farm life will be destroyed, the schools will be closed, and everything else will go back to primitive conditions. Mr. BECKER. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. If there are no further questions, we thank you very much, Mr. Becker.

Mr. SIMPSON. I will call next Mr. John Erp, president of the Farmers Union of Minnesota.

STATEMENT OF JOHN ERP, PRESIDENT FARMERS' UNION OF MINNESOTA

Senator FRAZIER. What is your home address, Mr. Erp?

Mr. ERP. Canby, Minn.

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have not prepared any written report, as I find that if I were to undertake to make a written report which would express the condition of agriculture in the State of Minnesota, it would take up a large volume. Conditions change so fast that it is hard to keep up.

I might say for your information that I came from Illinois, and landed in Minnesota on the 14th day of February, 1911. I have farmed nothing less than a half-section since I came to Minnesota.

I took money and loaned it out to my neighbor farmers, thinking that I could probably make a little something in the way of interest. In those days when I first came there, there was possibly a little chance of making something extra besides a living. To-day, I have bankrupt slips, and banks are also closed in many of our counties, so we are all going broke.

In 1929, I was elected to the Farmers Union as president, and I have come in contact with many farmers. The conditions are general throughout our organized territory. The people are inquiring for some kind of relief. The people are not able to pay their taxes. Many of them are not able to pay their taxes and their mortgage obligations.

The year 1931 was far more serious in Minnesota than 1930. In the beginning of 1931, or shortly after the Frazier bill was introduced, our State officials received a copy, and we analyzed the bill. We sent several thousand copies to our membership.

The membership of the Farmers Union in Minnesota is composed of local organizations. The local organizations within the counties compose the State organization.

I have with me, to present to our Senator, thousands of signatures indorsing the Frazier bill.

Last winter the Farmers Union organization introduced a resolution. A concurrent resolution was offered to both the house and senate of Minnesota, memoralizing Congress, indorsing farmers' farm relief bill; it was passed in the Senate unanimously, and in the House with only 1 dissenting vote. If the House member had had advance information as to what it was all about, we would have had a unanimous vote in the House.

So our people in Minnesota are very much interested in this Frazier bill or farm relief bill. They feel that the Government should grant this loan direct to the farmers. They understand that if this is done, this is not going to be a whole solution for the farm problem. It is just to carry them across, until we can get further constructive legislation to give the farmer the cost of production plus the interest on his investment.

When I left on Friday of last week our shipping association had a return of five decks of livestock. I saw the check, which was for two thousand two hundred and sixty-five dollars and some odd cents, for five decks of

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. What do you mean by a deck? Mr. ERP. A deck is a load. We have single decks, and double decks. Hogs and sheep are usually loaded in double decks, and cattle single decks.

Senator McGILL. Two decks to a car?

Mr. ERP. Two decks to the car-an upper and lower berth.

I am not positive about the date, because I was away from home, but in 1917 or 1918 I shipped a carload of hogs and received something over $2,700-just one deck.

Senator HATFIELD. How many cars did you have in this last shipment?

Mr. ERP. I think there were three carloads in this last shipment. Mr. SIMPSON. It amounts to five cars.

Mr. ERP. In other words, there was over 70,000 pounds of live weight.

Cream was selling at 19 cents a pound, or butter fat, as we call it; and eggs at 9 or 10 cents a dozen. I tried to compile some figures as to the number of tenant farmers, but they have increased so rapidly since the last census was taken that it was useless to try.

I tried to figure out the amount of uncollected taxes, the delinquent taxes. The commissioner told me that he could not say exactly the complete amount of delinquency, but I have here, which I might show you, a statement showing the total uncollected taxes, January, 1931, $36,928,210. I have this record here

Senator HATFIELD. How much of that is on farm property?

Mr. ERP. It is not separated. I have the various counties here. Senator MCGILL. Do you wish to put that in the record?

Senator HATFIELD. I think this would be a very interesting document for the record.

Senator FRAZIER. Let it be placed in the record.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

Statement showing amount of uncollected taxes for 1929 and percentage of total tax levy for that year, also the amount of uncollected taxes for 1928 and prior years, and total for all years in each county on the first Monday in January, 1931, also comparison with preceding years

[Compiled by the Minnesota Tax Commission]

taxes, Jan

$1,588, 659

493, 163

255, 310 2,786, 240 54,780 82,755 120, 289 20, 984 462, 701 8,070

1, 199, 951

25,795

52, 255

269, 788

292, 581

599, 396

38, 591

384, 980

78, 394

49, 265

47, 467

35, 784

19, 294

91, 293

25, 650

87,831

2, 359, 124

14, 404

284, 575

Statement showing amount of uncollected taxes for 1929 and percentage of total tax levy for that year, also the amount of uncollected taxes for 1928 and prior years, and total for all years in each county on the first Monday in January, 1931, also comparison with preceding years-Continued

ments, 1929

uary, 1931

years

uary, 1930

Total uncollected taxes, January, 1929

Mr. ERP. Now, as I have said, conditions are changing so fast in the last couple of years that we find that practically every farmer has made his last payment on interest on his mortgage, and he has not anything to come back with for his next payment in 1932. We have been hoping that we could get this relief measure, known as the farm relief bill, or Frazier bill, passed.

Many banks have failed this last year, and the farmers have passed a resolution, which I might read here, that has been broadcast over the radio at Yankton, S. Dak.

This is a copy of a resolution that was passed by the Lac qui Parle County organization of farmers or taxpayers-farmers' union members and nonmembers. They had assembled at Madison, Minn. This resolution was broadcast in order to advise people of the conditions. I will read it.

RESOLUTION

We, the taxpayers of Lac qui Parle County in a mass meeting assembled on January 7, do unanimously adopt the following resolution:

Whereas the present financial depression is causing honest, hard working ment and women to love their savings of a lifetime; and

Whereas prices on farm products have fallen to a level where it makes it impossible to meet overhead expenses and pay off financial obligations, which under normal conditions could be paid; and

Whereas farmers were, a few years ago, induced to incur these obligations through inflated values and extension of credits by those who had money to loan; and

Whereas we consider the predicament in which farmers find themselves in at present is not due to their fault: Therefore be it

Resolved, That we believe it to be unfair and unjust to enforce payment of these obligations through forced sales under present conditions; and be it further

Resolved, That, inasmuch as in many instances the forced sale of a man's property deprives him of his only visible means of making a living and may make him and his family objects of charity, that we in the interest of human rights and fair play refuse to bid on any article offered for sale where said sale is compulsory and without the free will of the owner of that property; be it further

Resolved, That in nowise shall the foregoing resolutions be construed to mean or apply to any other than forced sales and which threaten to take bread and butter from people who are attempting to make an honest living.

Our motto: "We place the rights of humanity above the rights of the dollar."

This is a resolution that was published————

Senator MCGILL. Adopted by whom?

Mr. ERP. This was adopted at a taxpayers' meeting of farmers' union members and other organization at Madison, Lac qui Parle County.

Senator MCGILL. Was that a State meeting, or a county meeting? Mr. ERP. A county meeting.

Senator MCGILL. You spoke a moment ago about the uncollected taxes at least, the uncollected tax list which you had incorporated in the record. Are there any industries in your State of any particular consequence other than agriculture?

Mr. ERP. There is mining.

Senator MCGILL. There is some mining.

Senator HATFIELD. Is that located in the agricultural section?
Mr. ERP. No; not in the agricultural section.

Senator MCGILL. Is not this uncollected tax list largely due to the failure of agriculture, whether it be city or farm property?

Mr. ERP. You give the farmers prosperity, and everybody can eat, and everybody will be buying.

Senator MCGILL. That is true; but a number of your cities are small, are they not?

Mr. ERP. Yes.

Senator MCGILL. Those are wholly dependent for their success on the agricultural sections surrounding them.

Mr. ERP. Yes.

Senator MCGILL. So, a defaulted tax payment in a community of that kind, whether it be city, country, or farm property, is due to the failure of the farms, is it not?

Mr. ERP. Give the farmer a chance to pay his obligations, and everybody else will pay his.

Senator HATFIELD. By furnishing him a market for his products? Mr. ERP. By furnishing him a market for his products, and assurance that he will not be forced off his farm.

Senator MCGILL. About what percentage of the farmers of your State are members of your organization?

Mr. ERP. I could not give you the percentage.
Senator HATFIELD. Could you hazard a guess?
Senator MCGILL. Can you tell approximately?

Mr. ERP. We have organized between 11,000 and 12,000 farmers. Senator MCGILL. About how many farms have you in the State? Mr. ERP. That would be pretty hard to say at this time. I could not say. I think Mr. Hyde over there would probably have the record for Minnesota.

Mr. TALBOTT. One hundred and eighty-nine thousand, Mr. Chair

man.

Mr. ERP. That is, farms, Mr. Talbott, is it not?

Mr. TALBOTT. Yes. That is the 1925 census report.

Senator MCGILL. He told how many farmers belonged to his organization. What I was trying to ascertain was how many farmers are there in the State.

Mr. HYDE. Minnesota had in 1930, 185,000 farms; in 1920, 178,000; in 1910, 156,000; in 1900, 154,000. There were operated by