STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD O. McCOWEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Mr. McCowen.

Mr. McCOWEN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am pleased to appear before your committee to make a statement in regard to the canal in the Big Sandy River, Va., W. Va., and Ky., including Levisa and Tug Forks. A large number of my constituents from Portsmouth, Sciota County, and some other parts of my district the Sixth Ohio, have protested to me in the past several months against the construction of this proposed canal. Many railroad employees in particular fear the loss of their jobs and positions eventually if the project goes through. My constitutents are firmly convinced that many interests of southern Ohio would be adversely affected if this project were to be made a reality. I am not only presenting their points of view as being opposed to the project, but I am also registering my own protest.

It is a well-known fact that decisions to build or construct Federal projects of this nature are always based on the economic ratio of cost to benefit. On the economic ratio of cost to benefit in the case of this particular project, its justification might be seriously questioned.

I shall not go into detail with facts and figures on this phase of the justification of the project on the economic ratio of cost to benefit because it is my understanding that this phase of the discussion either has been or will be brought fully to the attention of the committee. I might make this statement, however, that it is my opinion that if new cost estimates were made in the light of present conditions, it would develop that the original estimate based on 1940 cost estimates would be very much out of line. This would probably go a long way in showing that the economic ratio of cost to benefit would not justify the construction of the Big Sandy Valley canal project.

It may be argued further that the fact that the area that would be served by the canal is now being served by the railroads offering good service. This being true, it argues that a sufficient necessity for this construction does not exist. Furthermore, I wonder when we intend to put some brakes on Government spending. With the burdensome debt of $275,000,000,000 that now requires a tax entirely too heavy for the American people, is it not time to avoid embarking on projects that cost many millions of dollars that are not economically justifiable and now not necessary?

Mr. Chairman, may I state, in conclusion, that I think this project should either be not constructed at all or that its construction, if it must be, should be delayed until the finances of our Government are placed beyond a deficit-spending basis; that is, on a balanced-budget basis, a pay-as-you-go basis?

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. The committee will now recess until 1:30 o'clock this afternoon.

(Thereupon at 11:55 a. m., Monday, May 6, 1946, the committee recessed until 1:30 o'clock this afternoon.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The committee reconvened at 1:30 p. m., Hon. John E. Rankin presiding.

Mr. RANKIN. The committee will be in order. Colonel Feringa, are you ready to proceed?

STATEMENT OF COL. PETER FERINGA-Resumed

Colonel FERINGA. Mr. Chairman, I finished my testimony this morning, but there are two items I would like to clarify, with your permission.

First, I was questioned during the morning as to the sentiments of the unions towards this proposed project. I indicated that it was my belief that the higher echelons of their command were opposed and that the lower echelons, the miners and the local miners were for it. I have been looking back into the record of our hearing which was held by the Board of Engineers for Rivers and Harbors at the Mingo County Court House, Williamson, W. Va., on October 22, 1945. At that time Mr. Tom Rainey stated that he was the international board member representing District No. 30 and that he was pinch-hitting for Mr. Sam Kady, who was president of District 30. I think Mr. Rainey appeared in opposition.

Also, from that same hearing, I find that Mr. Garfield Stums said. he was a coal miner and he represented local No. 5728, and he was for it.

Mr. DONDERO. Would you say there was a sharp division of opinion on this matter?

Colonel FERINGA. It is hard for me to decide, but I am very anxious to be correct in everything I state to this committee and I wanted to bring out that viewpoint.

Mr. DONDERO. The reason for my question is this. I have seen a list of 34 public bodies who are registered in opposition to this project.

Colonel FERINGA. I just wanted to bring out that point.

Mr. DONDERO. There was one item that I failed to ask you about this morning, and that is this. What is the water supply of these two rivers, what is their source?

Colonel FERINGA. The water supply of the two rivers is the same as in normal cases, rainfall. We believe that for the major part that will be sufficient to supply the navigation demands for the streams. However, to be certain that it will not ever come to a point where there is not enough water, we have included within the cost of this project, a system of pumps to replenish the water for the first lockage and then it would be replenished farther down.

Mr. DONDERO. And what is the cost of that?

Colonel FERINGA. The cost of the pumps is included in this report, $1,735,000. There again, if it will not be necessary, it will not be done. But we are anxious to present to the committee all the outside eventualities, so that we are presenting to you the greatest possible cost.

Mr. DONDERO. That means that pumping facilities will have to be installed to pump water uphill, so that it will then run downhill in order to provide navigation?

Colonel FERINGA. Well, the water will be right at the pump, but any time you use a pump, you use it to lift water, whether it goes uphill or not. That is not unusual.

Mr. DONDERO. Has that been done in many projects?

Colonel FERINGA. We contemplated it in connection with the cross-Jersey waterway. There has been such a great advance in the construction of centrifugal pumps, which are coming more into favor, because they are economically sound.

I believe there is good reason to think that the pumps may not be necessary but again I want to assure you that we are anxious to present to you the outside cost.

Finally, a question was asked, which I asked my associate, Colonel Pockras, to answer, and he mixunderstood. He thought the question was whether we could construct this project during all days in the year. He said, "Yes." But the question was, "Would the project be operative during the entire number of days in the year?"

In our report we state that at the outside, the project might not be operative for a total of 60 days. That was due possibly to fog, a small amount of ice condition, and so forth. I do not believe ice will ever make this project inoperative, because with dams and locks you can let a surge of water come down and it will break the ice. But, to be sure to be on the outside, we set up this period of 60 days and I want to accent very strongly the fact that this is not a consecutive period of 60 days, that it is made up of 1 day in this month and a day in the next month and 2 days in the third month, and so forth. Therefore I do not believe it would entail any harm to the project.

Some of our people believe that we should not even have that 60 days as an estimate, that we should have a much lesser number of days. But in the interest of being conservative, which I hope we will always be, I think the figure of 60 days should be included.

Mr. DONDERO. May I say to the chairman of the committee and to you, Colonel, that there sit in the room Mr. Fred Letts and his wife of Lake Orion, Mich., from my district, who buy coal and it is shipped from the cities mentioned on the map, now under consideration by this committee. They have been intrigued by this project. Mr. RANKIN. We will now hear from our colleague, Mr. May, of Kentucky.

STATEMENT OF HON. ANDREW J. MAY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY

Mr. RANKIN. Will you state your name for the record.
Mr. MAY. Andrew Jackson May, Prestonburg, Ky.

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, we have here some 55 or 60 interested persons who are sponsoring this project. We have with them a gentleman from Pikeville, Mr. Hobson, one of the leading lawyers at that bar. The gentlemen who will testify are about 10 or 15 in number. I believe they have their statements prepared. They would like to read them, or submit them for the record and then be questioned by the committee.

Mr. DONDERO. I want to say for the gentleman from Kentucky and to his friends who are in the room, that no man in the Congress of the United States has earned the respect and admiration of his colleagues more than has Andrew Jackson May. [Applause.]

Mr. MAY. I am glad, Mr. Chairman, to have my constituents know for the first time that I am really recognized in the Congress of the United States. [Laughter.]

I would like to introduce Mr. Hobson at this time, who will present the other witnesses.

Mr. RANKIN. Let me make this suggestion before they appear, that if they have written statements, perhaps it would aid the committee if they presented them for the record. They may make oral statements briefly, if they wish and then submit to examination. We would like to expedite this matter as much as possible, because we must finish this week.

Mr. MAY. We will certainly cooperate with the committee toward finishing these hearings as quickly as possible. Mr. J. P. Hobson will present the witnesses. I shall reserve, with the permission of the acting chairman of the committee, my testimony, for rebuttal. Mr. RANKIN. We shall be glad to hear Mr. Hobson.

STATEMENT OF J. P. HOBSON, PIKEVILLE, KY.

Mr. HOBSON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, looking at this map here, and at the Big Sandy Valley on that map, brings to my mind the story of hard times, and peculiar stories of hard times and I believe that every other man here from the Big Sandy Valley can look at that map and put his finger any place on it and tell you a very pitiful story of hard times.

Questions were asked here this morning indicating that we all suffer under the immediate situation in Washington of not being able to have a ball game at night because they do not have any coal with which to make the lights. That makes us all feel that coal is a very scarce commodity. But down there we think of coal as a very plentiful commodity, but one that we have a mighty hard time selling. During these wartimes we were urged to produce coal. At other times people forget all about the production of coal and forget all about the folks who produce it, so that we have mighty hard sledding. When they see a sign up, "No work tomorrow," those are the saddest words we know in the coal fields-"No work tomorrow."

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Hobson, do you think this waterway will cure that situation or tend to cure it?

Mr. HOBSON. If I did not believe that with all my heart, I would not have worked on this project for the last 16 years, Mr. Rankin. Mr. DONDERO. Would you say that was the only reason for the sign "No work tomorrow"? That is, the failure to have this waterway? Mr. HOBSON. I say, sir, that in places where they do have these waterways, they do not have the sign "No work tomorrow" nearly so often as we do. They have them at times. But they have more days a week than we do when the old bullfrog says 1 and 2 days a week up in Pike County and Floyd County and Marion County, and he says 3 and 4 days a week over in Kanawha County and Logan County, where they have the advantages of this river transportation.

Coal is a heavy commodity. It is a commodity, especially the kind we have, that does not have any sulfur in it, that does not deteriorate with time. It will stand slow shipping. And we can save enough by shipping it by water to make up for the lost time.

We believe very sincerely that if our section can have the advantage of cheaper transportation, which the waterway will offer, it will not only be a great thing for us, but it will enable us more effectively to take our place in an expanding economy.

I believe very strongly with the colonel here that we are going to be blessed with a period of expanding economy. But I do not feel that that expansion is going to be strong enough to eliminate competition, and we have lots of competition in the coal industry, both among ourselves and among people in other lines of business-oil, gas, water power. And we want to see the coal industry go forward, because that is our salvation. We are selfishly interested in the coal industry, because we depend on it. We want to see the coal industry go forward.

We want to see the coal industry serve other sections of our country and enable them also to go forward. I wonder if I may be so bold as to invite Mr. Lawson, who is the chairman of the opponents, my neighbor and my friend, to come around here where he can see the maps and face these witnesses. Would that be in order, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mr. HOBSON. I want to introduce now Mr. Ernest Merrill, who is executive vice president of the Big Sandy Valley Association, the official sponsor of this project.

Mr. MAY. Which is a nonprofit, cooperative concern.

Mr. RANKIN. We will hear Mr. Merrill at this time.

STATEMENT OF ERNEST M. MERRILL, ASHLAND, KY.

Mr. MERRILL. Gentlemen, I only have a very brief statement to make at this time and that is explanatory of these maps. I am a civil and mining engineer. I always like to have a map and I think you folks ought to have a map. I want to explain these maps from our point of view for just a moment.

Mr. MAY. Are you going to qualify yourself as a witness?
Mr. MERRILL. I stated that I am a civil and mining engineer.
Mr. MAY. How long have you been that, 3 days or 30 years?
Mr. MERRILL. Of 40 years' experience, sir.

This map here was prepared under my supervision and shows the relation of Midwest America to the inland waterways.

These heavy lines are the improved inland waterway channels. The cross patches are the coal production districts as laid out by the Department of the Interior. The coal industry is organized under those coal-production districts.

Up here [indicating] is the Allegheny and the Monongahela, down the main line to the Little Kanawha, the Muskegon, the Great Kanawha; and over here the Kentucky, the Cumberland, the Tennessee, right in here, the Big Sandy. The small area in here is the Big Sandy. Then on over into these districts, which are the districts of Illinois and Indiana, west Kentucky, northern Illinois and Indiana and the western coal fields of Iowa, Missouri; and down here the coal fields of Arkansas and Oklahoma and over here into the coal fields. of Alabama.

Mr. DONDERO. The shaded portions of your map indicate the various coal fields of the United States?

Mr. MERRILL. Yes, sir. And the numerals appearing are the numbers of those districts that are assigned by the Solid Fuels Department and in all the records they are set up under those numbers.