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Reverend STUMP. That is right. We have come to a time that we have a number of unemployed in our community right now and it is gradually growing day by day. If we open up this waterway, in our honest opinion about it, picking up new trade and bringing in raw materials, we can employ a number of these unemployed and we shall have a number of days' work more than in normal times.

The question might have occurred to you as to why more men have not appeared, that is, miners. We have a number that would have appeared. We have a number of them that probably sometimes might be a little afraid to speak their minds.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Did they designate you as their spokesman here, these miners?

Reverend STUMP. Yes, sir; I am here for the interest of the miners; yes. I go to various different places in the interest of the miners.

Mr. RANKIN. Your position is that when things settle down and return to normal, it is then your theory that the other mines will get the trade and your mine would be closed down and your people would be out of work?

Reverend STUMP. That has been the record in the past. That is what we know. We have had past records of that.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You feel it will open up a field of activity by starting this waterway?

Reverend STUMP. The railroad is on the left-hand side of the Tug River as you go up. On the Kentucky side that high-volatile coal is lying over there, not being scarcely touched. However, that river is between the railroad, you see, and the coal field, and it would cost a lot of money to construct bridges and things across those rivers, but if this waterway were put in we would have access to these.

Mr. RANKIN. I think one of the most significant statements made here was made by the mayor when he told of the millions of dollars that was spent, you might say on relief, at a time when other coal areas were enjoying a reasonable measure of prosperity. At least they were making a fair living. If that condition is likely to come again in that area, and if this waterway were prevented, I think that is the strongest argument that has been made in favor of it.

Reverend STUMP. There is no doubt but what he is right. In those days I have seen those fellows go from time to time to get that relief. I was never on it myself, but I have seen people getting that relief by the hundreds. What we are trying to avoid is that very thing again. Mr. RANKIN. What are the other principal activities in that area? Reverend STUMP. Well, the chief industry right now is mining. Mr. RANKIN. What other industries are there?

Reverend STUMP. I do not know of any other big industry other than mining. If you leave the mining and get down to the local merchandise business, that is about all you find in that section. We have no manufacturing. We have nothing but the mining as an industry. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any farmers?

Reverend STUMP. We have people farming for themselves, but no farmers that farm for a living, of which I know. Perhaps they do have some.

Mr. RANKIN. How about dairy farming?

Reverend STUMP. We have very little dairy farming.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. What about the argument to the effect that this would inure to the benefit of the few large operators and that

the miners and the small operators would really derive no material benefit? That has been presented here in one or two of these letters. Reverend STUMP. That it would benefit the large operators and not the small?

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. That is right.

Reverend STUMP. I would not know just why they would state that. The opposition probably has some reason for presenting it, and they should have explained why. The fellow that presented that should explain why it would do that to this committee. They should have done that. I should think it would help the small man. He would get his coal to the river more cheaply and he could build tipples to the

river.

Mr. RANKIN. If the larger operators were operating the mines you would still have to have a large number of miners to do the work? Reverend STUMP. That is right.

Mr. RANKIN. I notice that every once in a while someone jumps on Henry Ford because he is a big operator, but I have never seen anybody else make a Ford car. It is not a question to me about the big operators. That is the business of the people of Virginia, Kentucky, and West Virginia. The question with me is, whether or not this waterway would stimulate production in that area and not only give you an outlet for your coal and keep those mines running, but give you an inlet for things you have to buy from the outside, and prevent the very condition that the miners are fearful of and which the mayor described a while ago.

Reverend STUMP. That is the goal we are trying to arrive at. Mr. RANKIN. The Government spent enough money, according to his statement, on relief down there, to build these locks and dams. Reverend STUMP. That is true.

Mr. RANKIN. I am just quoting what the mayor said.

Reverend STUMP. He was telling you the truth. The more trade we have the more of our men we can employ. We have a number of soldier boys in our area, and I know a number of them that signed up for unemployment insurance and are drawing $20 a week, whereas, if the coal mining business was expanded they could get work.

Mr. RANKIN. They did not overlook that area with the draft?
Reverend STUMP. No, they cleaned them out.

We would like to see this project accomplished. It is supported by the miners and by men of every walk of life. It will help every man of every walk of life, throughout that country. As I said, they are wholeheartedly watching how this is going along in Washington, and will continue to do so. A fellow called us hillbillies a while ago, because we are from the hills of Kentucky. However, you must not think that we do not know a little about what is going on in Washington, because we do. We are watching that very close and we hope with all of our hearts that you will consider us, and keep us out of this category in the future. Give us a chance equal with the other fellow. Let us all be brothers, as Abraham said to Lot, "Let us all be brothers". The local union of the people of the Kanawha Valley is protesting against us, although they should be willing to divide up some of that trade. They should not like to see us go on relief in a few years and then have all the shipment of coal.

Gentlemen, I thank you.

Mr. PETERSON of George. Reverend Stump, you have made a very strong and forceful statement.

Mr. HOBSON. I would like now, Mr. Chairman, to introduce Mr. John A. Kerper, executive secretary of the Dubuque Chamber of Commerce, Dubuque, Iowa.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. You may proceed, Mr. Kerper.

STATEMENT OF J. A. KERPER, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, DUBUQUE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

Mr. KERPER. My name is John A. Kerper, a resident of Dubuque, Iowa, since 1900. I am at the present time executive secretary of the Dubuque Chamber of Commerce. I have been closely identified with the development of river transportation for the past 25 years or more; am now and have been for many years a member of the board of directors of the Upper Mississippi Waterway Association, as also the Mississippi Valley Association; have been a member of the board of dock commissioners of the city of Dubuque since the commission was established in 1926, and for the past 8 years I have been chairman of the commission.

It is the function of the board of dock commissioners to have charge of all river-front development and foster and encourage the commercial use of the river as a means of transportation. In January 1945 I was appointed by Gov. Robert D. Blue, of Iowa, as one of the members from the State of the newly organized Upper Mississippi Valley Water Use Council, which is composed of three representatives from each of the following States: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa. The purpose of and objectives of this council are to encourage the use of our natural arteries of transportation, sponsor a program of improvement in collaboration and cooperation with the United States Board of Engineers and appropriate State and local agencies, and to sponsor and foster such activities as will tend to promote the full use of our inland waterways in relation to all public benefits, such as soil conservation, flood control, stream pollution, wild life preservation, recreation areas, transportation and economical movement of raw materials such as coal, iron ore, and other items used by industry and transportation of finished products at reasonable cost for distribution in the world's markets.

It is my privilege to represent a number of organizations and business interests at this hearing, since practically all such interests have appeared here in Washington when hearings were conducted by the Board of the United States Army Corps of Engineers. Every one of these organizations and individuals have such implicit confidence in the sound judgment, integrity, and ability of the United States engineers, who have approved and recommended the Big Sandy project, that it was deemed necessary to appear here again personally, believing that the recommendations of the Engineer Corps are conclusive evidence that the project is not only feasible but economically sound.

This hearing was considered to be a matter of such major importance that I was requested to be present and was authorized to submit such testimony as will follow.

First, I desire to indicate to you gentlemen that the citizens of Dubuque through the Dubuque Chamber of Commerce, which I rep

resent, are intensely interested in the project which is the subject of this hearing, because the carrying out of this proposal to canalize the Big Sandy and its tributaries which would provide an all-water route for transportation of the high-grade byproduct coal, is of primary importance to the many industries presently operating and those who desire to establish themselves in that area. Other users of solid fuel are naturally interested in any project which has for its objective the creation of facilities to reduce the cost of this type of coal available in the Big Sandy Valley, coupled with the interest in having our country make the fullest use possible of our inland waterway system as presently developed and all tributaries capable of development.

The upper Mississippi Valley section is witnessing the establishment of many new industries. At Dubuque the John Deere Dubuque Tractor Co. has acquired an industrial site of 730 acres, and construction of a $10,000,000 plant is now under way. The officials of this company assured me personally that one of the deciding factors in choosing this location and site was the availability of water transportation for bringing in raw materials such as high-grade coal, as well as shipment of finished products via an all-water route through the Mississippi Valley and foreign countries as well.

The Virginia-Carolina Chemical Corp. has under construction at Dubuque a new $500,000 plant and intends to bring in various raw materials by barge. They were attracted to our city because such transportation is available to them. I merely cite these two examples as concrete evidence of my previous statement relating to the growth of industry in our section. However, we realize that if we were to attract many other industries who require high volatile_byproduct coal in their operation, we must make it possible for them to obtain such coal at a price they can afford to pay, and the only way that can be accomplished is through lower transportation costs as will be an actuality when the coal produced in the Big Sandy can be transported by barge from the mines directly to the plants.

I submit herewith for the record a statement from the Board of Dock Commissioners of Dubuque, concurred in by the chamber of commerce, as also a statement in support of the Big Sandy River improvement by the Dubuque Chamber of Commerce and presented at hearing on this project before the United States Board of Engineers.

Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Without objection, it will be received in the record.

(The document referred to is as follows:)

STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF THE BIG SANDY RIVER IMPROVEMENT BY THE DUBUQUE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, DUBUQUE, IOWA

The Dubuque Chamber of Commerce, representing the business and professional interests of this community, has for many years been, and is now, deeply interested in the physical development of all of our navigable inland waterways, particularly the Mississippi and the Ohio and the tributaries of these two main arteries of transportation.

As evidence that this interest is real, the voters of this municipality approved a bond issue of $347,000 in 1926 for the construction of a modern river-rail terminal, which was leased to the Inland Waterways Corp., and has been used continuously by the Federal Barge Lines. Since 1926 the municipality, through the Board of Dock Commissioners, has made continuous and consistent efforts to provide additional wharf space for the handling of bulk commodities adjacent to industrial sites and areas suitable for storage.

This has resulted in the establishment of large storage facilities for the handling of petroleum products distributed from here by truck and rail by a large oil company and steam coal used by the Interstate Power Co., which concern supplies electric energy for industrial and domestic use. In 1941, this company shipped in 46,259 tons; 1942, 60,673 tons; 1943, 41,436 tons; 1944, 64,334 tons; and up to October 1, 1945, 58,646 tons.

The city of Dubuque is the owner of an island opposite and adjacent to the city in the Mississippi River, and its board of dock commissioners is now having an over-all comprehensive plan prepared by an outstanding firm of engineers for the improvement and filling of this island which comprises approximately 600 acres. This development contemplates the creation of additional wharf space and provides suitable and adequate space for the storage of coal as well as sites for industries desirous of locating plants immediately adjacent to the river.

The very fact that space can be readily provided to permit the storage of as much as 300,000 to 400,000 tons of high quality smokeless and byproduct coking coal will open up a tremendous market for domestic uses not only locally but also by rail and truck shipments throughout this area. It will attract such industries as are needed in the heart of the upper Mississippi Valley area. There is attached a tentative plan of the proposed development of the island above referred to. This plan may and perhaps will be changed somewhat after the engineers complete their surveys but will indicate quite clearly what is contemplated.

For one thing, it will provide an ideal location for blast furnaces that can bring iron ore to Dubuque from the iron mines of the Cayuna range in Minnesota and the deposits of such ore near Waukon, Iowa, which can be brought in by barge at low transportation costs, and who need high-grade coking and byproduct coal. The necessary limestone is plentiful in this area and much of it is right in the high bluffs along the river.

The Key City Gas Co., which produces artificial gas for commercial and domestic use, has not been able to obtain the type of coal required via the water route, and this company has for many years used coal produced in the Big Sandy Valley almost exclusively. It has for many years endeavored to secure a lower and more equitable freight rate on coal from the Big Sandy district without success, and is prepared to expand its operations by installing coke ovens if the cost of the type of coal needed can be reduced through the means of barge service. The company's plant is located immediately adjacent to the same inside canal serving the Interstate Power Co.

Large quantities of commercial coke are being used in this territory, most of which is shipped in by rail from ports on the Great Lakes in the vicinity of docks from which suitable fine coal can be secured at low cost--all of which should and could be produced by the local concern if low-cost river transportation direct from the mines is made available.

Under date of September 7, Mr. R. V. McKay, manager of the Key City Gas Co., wrote the following letter to me:

Mr. JOHN A. KERPER,

Secretary, the Dubuque Chamber of Commerce,

Dubuque, Iowa.

DEAR MR. KERPER: The Key City Co. is very much interested in any movement which will bring cheaper coal to its coke ovens. In this part of the country, the nsual coal supply for ovens manufacturing gas and high-grade coke originates in the East Kentucky-West Virginia fields. As you know, the main part of our coal mixture is Elkhorn coal for gas with a small percentage (5-10 percent) Pocahontas to stiffen the coke structure. The mines supplying these high-grade coals are located in the district which would benefit from the development of navigation on the Big Sandy River, Tug and Levisa Forks, W. V., and Ky. The coke produced from these coals is low ash and ideal for domestic purposes. It takes the place of anthracite coal and should be provided to our citizens at lower prices for better-analysis fuel. In other words, it has no natural competition in Dubuque.

Have you ever given thought to the fact that our operation in Dubuque is the only coke plant in Iowa, and at present we are not expanding our coke operations? Perhaps there is a good reason to be found in this matter of coal prices. Before the war, railroad freight was 1.70 to 1.75 times the cost of the coal at the mines. Today the freight is 1.30-1.35 times the mine cost of the coal, the improved ratio having been brought about by increases of coal costs at the mines

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