basis of annual estimates which have been justified each year before the Appropriations Committee and provided for in the annual supply bill. No calamity has ensued, and public business seems to have gone on as usual. In the Sixty-third Congress, second session, the Subcommittee on Permanent Appropriations under the chairmanship of the Honorable William P. Borland, held extensive hearings which resulted in the repeal of the permanent appropriation for the Reclamation Service by section 16 of the act of August 13, 1914. The report of the Borland committee is interesting and emphasized this statement: The committee believes that no new legislation should be enacted relating to the Reclamation Service without providing: First, that the annual estimates be submitted to Congress of the expenditures of the Reclamation Service; and second, that no new projects be begun without express authority of Congress. So it was that the Sixty-third Congress asserted and resumed its rights, but, as it so happened, as to only one phase of these constantly growing usurpations of past and dead Congresses. It left many of these vicious laws untouched. Since that time, laws have been repeatedly enacted, tying the hands of subsequent Congresses, and have added to the list of these "back-door automatic appropriations" whereunder millions of dollars have been annually withdrawn from the Treasury without the slightest scrutiny, supervision or control of current Congresses. THE SEVENTY-SECOND CONGRESS The issue as to permanent appropriations was thereafter allowed to lie dormant until the Seventy-second Congress when the Honorable Joseph W. Byrns, the then chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, revived the Subcommittee on Permanent Appropriations, under the chairmanship of Hon. Anthony J. Griffin. The other members were Hon. William C. Wright (now deceased), Hon. William W. Hastings, Hon. Louis Ludlow, Hon. Michael J. Hart, Hon. Burton L. French, Hon. Frank Murphy, and Hon. John Taber. This committee initiated a study of the whole panorama of permanent appropriations but the researches necessary could not be concluded before the end of the Seventy-second Congress. This committee had a number of meetings in executive session and made a somewhat superficial examination of the various items disclosed in the Annual Budget for the purpose of classification of the items and study of the laws affecting them. To assist in that work the aid of the Bureau of Efficiency was enlisted. It later submitted a very valuable report carrying all the departments of Government and giving the history of the laws whereby these funds and permanent appropriations were initiated. During the pendency of the committee's deliberations the Senate voiced its resentment at the amazing increase of these "back-door " permanent appropriations and in the appropriation bill for the Treasury and Post Office Departments inserted an amendment abolishing all permanent appropriations (with a few exceptions); but, on learning that this committee was making an intensive study of this subject, the amendment was withdrawn. THE SEVENTY-THIRD CONGRESS The new chairman of the House Committee on Appropriations, This committee concluded its hearings on Monday, April 2, 1934, ANTHONY J. GRIFFIN, Chairman. THOMAS S. MCMILLAN. GLOVER H. CARY. EDWARD W. Goss. R. B. WIGGLESWORTH. MONDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1934. FIRST EXECUTIVE SESSION The subcommittee met at 10:30 a.m., Hon. Anthony J. Griffin Present: Messrs. Griffin, McMillan, Cary, Goss, and Wigglesworth. TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1934. SECOND EXECUTIVE SESSION The subcommittee met at 10:30 a.m., Hon. Anthony J. Griffin Present: Messrs. Griffin, McMillan, Cary, Goss, and Wigglesworth. WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1934. THIRD EXECUTIVE SESSION The subcommittee met at 10:30 a.m., Hon. Anthony J. Griffin Present: Messrs. Griffin, McMillan, Cary, Goss, and Wigglesworth. permanent and indefinite appropriations, including special and trust THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1934. FOURTH EXECUTIVE SESSION The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., Hon. Anthony J. Griffin (chair- Present: Messrs. Griffin, Cary, and Wigglesworth. The subcommittee continued its study and consideration of the FIFTH EXECUTIVE SESSION The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., Hon. Anthony J. Griffin (chair- Present: Messrs. Griffin, McMillan, Cary, Goss, and Wigglesworth. WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 1934. STATEMENTS OF W. A. JUMP, BUDGET OFFICER; C. W. WAR- BURTON, DIRECTOR OF EXTENSION WORK; H. I. LOVING, CHIEF OF FINANCE, FOREST SERVICE; E. A. SHERMAN, ASSO- CIATE FORESTER; L. F. KNEIPP, BRANCH OF LANDS, FOREST SERVICE; C. W. KITCHEN, ASSISTANT CHIEF, BUREAU OF AGRICULTURAL ECONOMICS; C. L. FINCH, DIVISION OF COTTON MARKETING, BUREAU OF AGRICULTURAL ECONOMICS; AND Mr. GRIFFIN. We will first take up the item of meat inspection, Mr. JUMP. I have. Mr. GIFFIN. Are you prepared to make a statement in regard to it? Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir; I believe so. Mr. GRIFFIN. You may proceed by making a general statement. if you prefer. Mr. JUMP. Before speaking on this item, I would like to say a word for the information of the committee in a general way to this effect, that the Department of Agriculture, I believe, has a good reputation with this committee for coming before it well prepared with some systematic plan of presenting to the committee the things that we are asked to explain. However, I am afraid we will lose that reputation this morning for the reason that we have not had time to prepare the data covering these permanent items in a systematic way. Last year when I received a letter from this committee asking about this subject I prepared some quite extensive data. As you will recall, we were merely asked then to be prepared to come up here on these items, but we were never called upon at that time. This year we did not get your request in time to make the kind of systematic presentation that we would like to make. The clerk of the subcommittee said if we could possibly appear for a hearing here on Wednesday he would like to have us do so, and we are here on that basis. Some of these items are so obscure that it is difficult to pick them up on short notice. I should like to have had a week or 10 days to prepare to meet your purposes this morning. That, gentlemen, is more or less of the background nd of the testimony that we are in shape to give this morning. Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you followed our statement in preparing your data? Mr. JUMP. I have found that what we had prepared last year would be valueless for this year's purposes, because the figures would all be back figures. From my talk with the clerk, I understand we are to deal not only with permanent appropriations that are active and in constant use, but also with permanent appropriations which are no longer active and which are really dead and buried so far as we are concerned. I did not understand this last year, so that the presentation of the list we prepared then would be valueless to the committee now. Mr. GRIFFIN. Does that cover the statistics which are requested in our letter? Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir; but it would only come up to the fiscal year 1933, because since we prepared that data we have the fiscal years 1934 and estimates for 1935. I would like to give the testimony today, and later on file with the committee a systematic presentation of it. I believe we will be able to satisfactorily answer your questions in a general way this morning. Now, you sent up a letter in which you asked several questions about the meat-inspection item, and I think I can answer them at this time. Mr. GRIFFIN. I will ask the question: First of all, the committee would like to know the amount of the appropriation for the next fiscal year. Mr. JUMP. The appropriation for meat inspection for the next fiscal year consists of the $3,000,000 carried in the permanent appropriation, which is the principal subject of your inquiry this morning, and an additional amount of $1,828,823 carried in the bill which was reported to the House yesterday by the Appropriations Committee. This is an additional or supplementary amount to the $3,000,000, so that the total amount of the appropriation for meat inspection is $4,828,823. Mr. GRIFFEN. That is the amount provided in both the permanent appropriation, which you may draw upon regularly without the authority or the cooperation of Congress, and by the appropriation made by Congress annually. Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir. However, I would like to add this explanation: This is not the case in all of the permanent appropriations, but it is the case in this one. At the beginning of the fiscal year this $3,000,000 is merged in the Treasury with the annual or additional appropriations. However, while these two items are warranted separately by the Treasury Department, they are carried in one account under "Meat inspection, Bureau of Animal Industry ", on the books of that Department and of the Department of Agriculture. In other words, we get two warrants, one for the $3,000,000 and another for the $1,828,823. That also answers the next question. As I have said, they are merged and carried as one fund on the books, and therefore no distinction is made between the permanent and annual funds when we are incurring obligations or liabilities. In every way the permanent appropriation is treated the same as the annual appropriation. The expenditure schedules that are included in the formal Budget statements made to Congress annually have included those items as a lump sum. If you will examine the Budget schedules, you will see carried there the whole set-up as one appropriation for meat inspection. We ourselves do not know the difference. We do not know what is earmarked in the Budget as permanent or annual, or what supplies are to be bought from one or what supplies are to be purchased from the other. Therefore, it is a distinction without a difference, so far as the use of the money is concerned. Mr. GRIFFIN. That answers the question as to the procedure followed in the expenditure of the fund. As I understand it, you construe it as a lump sum. Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir. I would like to add this, that we suffered somewhat last year by reason of its being a permanent appropriation. Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you have for meat inspection last year? Mr. JUMP. We had $3,000,000 in the permanent appropriation, and $2,074,590 in the annual appropriation. Mr. Goss. This statement here shows $2,550,000 appropriated last year. Mr. JUMP. It was reduced for 1934 by the operation of the economy act. Mr. Goss. It is carried here as $3,000,000 for 1935, and $2,550,000 is carried for 1934. Mr. JUMP. A peculiar thing happened last year. This is something that got by us. It shows what can happen in connection with |