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NAME OF FIRMS WITH WHOM WE NEGOTIATED FOR ENGINEERING WORK

Sylvan Bien, architect, New York City
Cauldwell-Wingate Co., general contractors, New York City
John & Drew Aberson, architect, New York City
Gehron & Saltzer, architects, New York City
Kohn & Jacobs, architects, New York City
Ketchum, Gina & Sharp, architect, New York City
James King & Sons, Inc., general contractors, New York City
LaPierre & Litchfield, architects, New York City (formerly Alfred Hopkins

Associates)
William Loscaze & Associates, architects, New York City
Merritt-Chapman & Scott Corp., general contractors, New York City
Moore & Hutchins, architects, New York City
Nadal Baxendale, Inc., general contractors, New York City
John B. Peterkin, architect, New York City
George P. Pelham, architect, New York City

Pomerance & Breines, architects, New York City
Antonin Raymond & L. L. Rado, architects, New York City

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will now adjourn until Monday morning

I don't think that it will be necessary for you to continue on the witness stand, Mr. Strobel.

As I indicated, Mr. Robb, you will have opportunity for rebuttal. We will now adjourn until Monday at 10 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 4:25 p. m., the subcommittee adjourned, to reconvene at 10 a. m., Monday, October 31, 1955.)

CONFLICT OF INTEREST

MONDAY, OCTOBER 31, 1955

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
ANTITRUST SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,

Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m., in room 346, Old House Office Building, Hon. Emanuel Celler (chairman of the full committee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Celler, Rodino, Fine, and Keating. Also present: Herbert N. Maletz, chief counsel, and Kenneth R. Harkins, cocounsel of the subcommittee.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Mr. FINE. Mr. Chairman, before we begin, I have a statement I would like to make.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir,

Mr. FINE. I want to comment upon the way the investigation of Mr. Strobel has proceeded. Both during the preliminary investigation and during the course of the hearings, this matter has been conducted in a manner that reflects the desire by all parties to have an objective analysis after full disclosure of all relevant materials.

Mr. Strobel and the various Government agencies have given the utmost cooperation to this subcommittee in its efforts to ascertain necessary facts. Mr. Strobel has responded fully and frankly to all questions directed to him.

Committee counsel's questioning has been designed to elicit all the facts. Counsel is to be commended for this.

In keeping with the chairman's statement when we started the hearing on Mr. Strobel, the chair has conducted this hearing in a fair and fully objective manner. This objectivity is underscored by the request of the chairman and the counsel for Mr. Strobel that he present witnesses to rebut any testimony which has been received and to assure that all matters that Mr. Strobel thinks are relevant are presented for the subcommittee's deliberations.

I want to take this opportunity to commend the chairman for his attitude, and it is refreshing to participate in an investigation conclucted in such a fair and comprehensive manner.

The CHAIRMAN. The chair wishes to thank the gentleman from New York for those very kind words about himself.

Mr. Maletz?

Mr. MALETZ. Mr. Chairman, at page 117, I offered in evidence a document entitled, “List of the outstanding architects who submitted questionnaire information requested by letter of July 20, 1955.” At the bottom of this document there is a handwritten notation, "Sent by

, PBS to CIA as suggested firms."

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I move, Mr. Chairman, that this document be accepted in evidence at page 117 of the record.

The CHAIRMAN. That will be done.

(The document referred to was received in evidence at page 117 of the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. John E. Hill, of the General Services Administration.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN E. HILL, DIRECTOR OF COMPLIANCE DIVI

SION, GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION—Resumed

Mr. MALETZ. Mr. Hill, I believe you have already been sworn. Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MALETZ. You are the Executive Director of the Office of Compliance of GSA; is that correct?

Mr. HILL. I am Director of the Compliance Division. Mr. MALETZ. I see. Now, Mr. Hill, you testified on Friday about a document entitled, "List of outstanding architects who submitted questionnaire information requested by letter of July 20, 1955”; is that correct?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MALETZ. I show you a document so entitled which has been received in evidence at page 117 and ask you whether that is the list concerning which you testified ?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MALETZ. Now, this list was sent to CIA by the Office of the Commissioner of Public Buildings, was it not?

Mr. HILL. That is right, sir.

Mr. MALETZ. Can you tell us when this list was submitted to the CIA by the Office of the Commissioner of Public Buildings?

Mr. HILL. Within 1 week after August 3, when it was prepared.
Mr. MALETZ. It was prepared on August 3?
Mr. Hill. That is right, sir.
Mr. MALETZ. I see.
Mr. FINE. He said it was sent within a week after that.
Mr. HILL. I beg your pardon, sir?
Mr. FINE. And you said it was sent within a week after that?
Mr. HILL. Within 1 week after that, I am informed-

Mr. MALETZ. Was the preparation of that list completed on August 3?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MALETZ. Now, Mr. Hill, do you know whether the New York architectural firm of Ferrenz & Taylor has asked to be considered for an architectural contract under the Public Buildings lease-purchase program?

Mr. HILL. Sir, if I can put it this way, on July 20, a form letter was sent out to a large number of architects and architectural firms. asking those firms and architects if they would be interested in awards for architectural services. On July 30, the firm of Ferrenz

Mr. MALETZ. Is that 1955?
Mr. HILL. I beg your pardon?
Mr. MALETZ. Is that 1955 ?
Mr. HILL. July 30, 1955.

The firm of Ferrenz & Taylor submitted a brochure and indicated that they were interested in receiving such awards.

Mr. MALETZ. Are they presently being considered by the Public Buildings Service!

Mr. Hill. Not actively. They are on record as a firm that will be and would be considered if the occasion arises.

Mr. FINE. Excuse me. How do you know all this? Is this within your own duties?

Mr. Hill. I conferred with the members of the rating board established by Mr. Strobel. The members are Mr. Otis Poss, Mr. Leonard Hunter, and Mr. Howard Dominick. And I receive my advice from them.

Mr. FINE. What was the occasion of your making the inquiry?

Mr. HILL. After this question arose about the validity of this document.

Mr. FINE. Oh, you mean since the last hearing?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.
Mr. FINE. You made the inquiry since Friday?
Mr. Hill. That is right, sir.
Mr. FINE. I see.

Mr. MALETZ. Is it not correct, Mr. Hill, that I communicated with you by telephone and asked GSA to check that information for the committee?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MALETZ. And you checked in accordance with the committee's request?

Mr. Hill. That is right, sir.
Mr. MALETZ. Thank you, sir.

Mr. KEATING. Your contact with this committee has been with the counsel, Mr. Maletz?

Mr. Hill. Yes, sir.
Mr. KEATING. And you have had how many conversations with
him on it?
Mr. HILL. I suppose I may have had a dozen, all together.

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Mr. KEATING. When did they start?

Mr. HILL. The early part of September, after Mr. Maletz had been in communication with our office of General Counsel, and General Counsel was advised that the Compliance Office had already initiated an inquiry, Mr. Maletz then got in touch with our office, that is, the Compliance Office. That was early in September.

Mr. KEATING. When did you initiate your inquiry?

Mr. Hill. We initiated our inquiry at the request of the Administrator, Mr. Mansure.

Mr. KEATING. When was that?

Mr. Hill. Just about the 1st of September, I believe. It was immediately after Mr. Strobel had submitted his list of clients, which I believe was on August 30.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair wishes to state that the activities of Mr. Maletz have been continually under my direction and supervision, with my complete knowledge.

Are there any other questions?
Mr. MALETZ. No, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. That is all, Mr. Hill.
Mr. Sol Schwarz, of Strobel & Salzman.

Mr. Strobel, will you come to the table, too, please! There may be some questions of you.

TESTIMONY OF SOL SCHWARZ, ACCOMPANIED BY PETER STROBEL

AND ROGER ROBB, COUNSEL—Resumed

Mr. Malerz. Mr. Schwarz, I believe you have already been sworn; is that right?

Mr. SCHWARZ. That is correct.

Mr. MALETZ. You are with the firm of Strobel & Salzman; is that correct?

Mr. SCHWARZ. That is correct.

Mr. MALETZ. Is it true that you are the business manager for Strobel & Salzman!

Mr. SCHWARZ. That is so.
Mr. MALETZ. And how long have you had that position?
Mr. Schwarz. How long?
Mr. MALETZ. Yes.
Mr. Schwarz. I would say since 1948, approximately 1948.
Mr. MalETz. And what are your duties with Strobel & Salzman?
Mr. SCHWARZ. My duties with Strobel & Salzman are that ---
Mr. FINE. Will you keep your voice up?
Mr. SCHWARZ. I beg your pardon?
Mr. FINE. Keep your voice up.
Mr. SCHWARZ. Yes, sir.

My duties with Strobel & Salzman are that of seeing that the general-office end of the work is properly performed, and to consult with the various people in the office to see that we produce the work as it is supposed to be done from a time standpoint, and to determine whether we have a sufficient amount of work or not in production.

Mr. MALETZ. Mr. Schwarz, there has been introduced in evidence a letter dated August 30, 1955, from Mr. Strobel to Mr. Mansure. To this letter there is attached a list of clients of Strobel & Salzman, together with another list setting forth the names of firms with whom Strobel & Salzman have negotiated for engineering work.

I show you this letter with attachments and ask you whether you prepared the attached lists.

Mr. FINE. Is that in evidence already?
Mr. MALETZ. Yes.
Mr. FINE. May I have the number?
Mr. MALETZ. We have not numbered them, sir.

Mr. SCHWARZ. Yes, this is a copy of the list which I prepared for transmission with this letter.

Mr. MALETz. Did you prepare the list?
Mr. SCHWARZ. Yes; I prepared the list.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Schwarz, if these photographers annoy you, I will dismiss them. Is it all right for them to take pictures?

Mr. SCHWARZ. If I don't have to read anything, it is all right. But now I won't be able to see anything for at least 10 minutes.

The CHAIRMAN. That is enough, boys. Mr. MALETZ. Now, Mr. Schwarz, I show you a document entitled, "List of outstanding architects who submitted questionnaire information requested by letter of July 20, 1955, sent by PBS to CIA as sug

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