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Mr. HILL. May I say how this started, sir? After Mr. Strobel submitted his list of clients the Office of Compliance and Security immediately initiated an inquiry.

Our initial purpose was merely to find out whether Mr. Strobel's clients had received any contracts with GSA-I don't know where we would have gone from there—just about the same time the committee initiated its investigation. And then we were instructed

Mr. KEATING. How did you know the committee was initiating an investigation !

The CHAIRMAN. I would say that I communicated with Mr. Mansure, that we wanted all information

Mr. KEATING. This is under oath. I would like his testimony rather than the chairman's.

Mr. HILL. I believe, if I recall

The CHAIRMAN. It seems rather anomalous and strange that a member of the committee would voice objections to a department cooperating with a constituted committee of Congress.

Mr. KEATING. I wanted to see these

The CHAIRMAN. It seems to me your question was impugning the motives of those who gave us these documents.

Mr. KEATING. I wasn't impugning anyone's motives.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to afford this gentleman every protection. We asked for the documents and we got the documents. If we shouldn't have the documents, that is another story. But we are entitled to the documents, and we have gotten the documents. as a result of Mr. Mansure, and I will say, very frankly, of Mr. Strobel, who cooperated to the nth degree with this committee, we got the documents.

And so I want to offer him every conceivable praise for this.

Mr. Elliott, will you raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. ELLIOTT. Yes, sir. I wonder if I could be helpful

TESTIMONY OF MAXWELL H. ELLIOTT, GENERAL COUNSEL,

GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION

The CHAIRMAN. What is your name?

Mr. ELLIOTT. Maxwell H. Elliott, General Counsel for the General Services Administration.

I wonder if it would be helpful to the committee if I could explain our general policy with reference to making information available to congressional committees. It is our policy, and we conceive this to be the policy prevailing under the Executive orders, that we should make information readily available to an equal coordinate branch of the Government, to wit, the Congress, as and when requested, subject, of course, to classification with respect to disclosure when they are classified for security reasons and subject to the relatively rare circumstances where in the opinion of the executive branch, disclosure to a committee would prejudice the public interest.

A question of that kind, if it ever comes up, we do not decide ourselves; we go to the Attorney General, and he perhaps goes to the President. I wanted to clarify that, because our position with respect to furnishing information to this committee in this case is no different than it is in furnishing information to any other committee in any other cases.

Mr. FINE. I thought that Mr. Keating was trying to find out just how the files were opened, whether or not there was a carte blanche investigation first made by Mr. Maletz, and Mr. Maletz picked out the documents, and then Mr. Hill delivered them in accordance with instructions.

Mr. ELLIOTT. I see, sir. I wasn't trying to divert the particular facts, but I think it would be helpful if we explained our general policy.

Mr. KEATING. Is that correct? Is that the way it was done?
Mr. ELLIOTT. How is that, sir?
Mr. KEATING. The way Mr. Fine has indicated.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Mr. Keating, I can't testify as to the details of how it was handled.

Mr. KEATING. Mr. Hill, can you testify as to that?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. Maletz would request a certain file, and I would send for the file and make it available to him. Frequently I would not have reviewed the file at all.

Mr. KEATING. And you would turn over the whole file ?

Mr. HILL. Turn over the complete file to Mr. Maletz, knowing that it was not a security file or classified file. And Mr. Maletz would indicate the particular document, a copy of which he desired.

Mr. KEATING. Has that always been the practice in your department?

Mr. HILL. I can't answer that. It may not always have been the practice, but I am sure it has always been the policy.

Mr. KEATING. The policy of making those matters all open to let counsel for a congressional committee come in and examine the file and pick out anything he wants to?

Mr. HILL. I don't recall any instances to the contrary, sir.

Mr. KEATING. I don't know anything about General Services. As I say, when I was chairman of the committee making such an investigation, we were not allowed to see any files and were required to pinpoint exactly what documents we wanted and then they would be examined and usually delivered to us.

It is very refreshing to find that at the present congressional committees are allowed to go down and look at the files and pick out anything they want.

The CHAIRMAN. I wondered whether or not we could get the same cooperation as we got from the General Services Administration from the Department of Commerce. We have been endeavoring for months to get certain documents and records from Mr. Weeks' Department, and we have an Iron Curtain drawn against us, and we can't get a thing there, and that has stymied the work of this committee. I didn't hear the gentleman from New York bemoaning the fact that we were treated that way, even discourteously, by the Secretary of Commerce. He refused to give us any conceivable information,

Mr. KEATING. The gentleman was trying at one time to get some documents—I don't know the full story-some documents of a private agency that happened to be physically located down in the Office of the Secretary of Commerce. And the Secretary felt that he couldn't very well disclose that any more than the gentleman would want to disclose the files of his own clients.

The CHAIRMAN. I am very happy to note that the gentleman from New York considers the Business Advisory Council a private agency. I understood that the Secretary of Commerce has barred our access to the files of the Business Advisory Council on the ground that it is part of the Department of Commerce and a public agency.

Now I am very happy to know that the gentleman from New York considers it a private agency. If it is a private agency, we shouldn't be denied the privilege of seeing the files.

Mr. KEATING. If you go about it the right way, you might be able to see them.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would tell us what to do.

Mr. KEATING. You have got a bunch of counsel here that are able and energetic.

The CHAIRMAN. We have a very astute and wise member from New York. Maybe he can give us the benefit of his advice and counsel and tell us how we can get these documents that are impervious to our subpena. We issued a subpena to the Director of the Business Advisory Council, and apparently, in common parlance, the Secretary of Commerce actually thumbed his nose at us.

Mr. KEATING. If the subpena is properly directed, it is a matter of course.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions of Mr. Hill or Mr. Elliott?

Mr. FINE. You were the liaison between the committee and the Department; isn't that so?

Mr. Hill. Yes; in this particular case I was.
Mr. FINE. Everything was cleared through you?
Mr. HILL. Yes.

Mr. MALETZ. I offer in evidence a letter dated August 30, 1955, which has previously been identified as being from Mr. Strobel to Mr. Mansure, to which there is attached a list of clients and the names of firms with whom Strobel & Salzman negotiated for engineering.

Mr. STROBEL. It is my impression that that has been offered before.
Mr. MALETZ. I don't believe so. Would you like to examine it?
Mr. STROBEL. That is the document.
(The document referred to is as follows:)

LARCH MONT, N. Y., August 30, 1955.
IIon. EDMUND F. MANSURE,
Administrator, General Services Administration,

Washington 25, D. C. DEAR MR. MANSURE: The following is to confirm and amplify what I told you about my business background and interests.

My professional record and experience is already a matter of record and requires no repetition.

Now as to my business background, associations, and contacts, I have been in hiusiness as a professional engineer, on my own, since 1943. In 1945 I started a partnership with Joseph Salzman, under the name of Strobel & Salzman. Salzinan made no financial contribution and has no financial interest in the assets ('xcept partnership participation in the net profits from outstanding accounts. The partnership renews itself automatically from year to year. This arrangement has existed from 1945 to the present day.

When I assumed public office, it was publicly announced that I was turning over the active management of the firm to Joseph Salzman. Despite my great linancial interest in the firm, I have adhered to this policy and have left the active management in his hands.

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I laid down certain basic rules to govern Strobel & Salzman in their activities, during my public office responsibility. Among them were:

1. Strobel & Salzman would disqualify itself and it has disqualified itself from taking on any contract or subcontract which involves or comes under the jurisdiction of the Public Buildings Service of the General Services Administration.

2. Strobel & Salzman would not and it has not taken on any new clients (who were not clients or in the process of negotiation prior to my entry into public office) even for wholly unrelated work, where the new client is interested in or in the process of seeking a contract or subcontract with the Public Buildings Service of the General Services Administration.

3. Neither the firm or I have any financial interests, stock or otherwise, in any architectural or construction firm and none would be or has been

acquired. When I took office, on July 1, 1954, as Commissioner of the Public Buildings Service of the General Services Administration (after spending about 90 days familiarizing myself with the work) Strobel & Salzman had over 100 clients, which included architects, general contractors, builders, owners, public agencies, and industrial organizations. I am enclosing a list prepared by the office of Strobel & Salzman, which substantially represents the clients up to June 30, 1954. I am also enclosing a list of approximately 15 concerns with whom the partnership had been in negotiation for providing engineering services. I believe this letter gives you the information you want. Cordially yours,

PETER A. STROBEL, Commissioner, Publio Buildings Service, General Services Adminis

tration, Washington, D. C.

LIST OF CLIENTS, STROBEL & SALZMAN, CONSULTING ENGINEERS, 70 WEST 40TH

STREET, New York 18, N. Y., AUGUST 30, 1955
Louis Allen Abramson, architect, New York City
Amos Parrish & Co., Inc., designers, New York City
Alfons Bach, industrial designer, Stamford, Conn.
Bethlehem Steel Co., New York City and Bethlehem, Pa.
Brown & Guenther, architects, New York City (did business with Bernard

Guenther of this firm previous to his partnership)
Brown, Lawford & Forbes, architects, New York City
Buchart Engineering Corp., York, Pa.
Carl Buhr, Inc., general contractors, New York City
J. Gordon Carr, architect, New York City
Irwin S. Chanin, architect, New York City
Chapman, Evans & Delehanty, architects, New York City
Childs & Co., restaurants, New York City
Christiani & Nielson, engineers and constructors, New York City
Cinerama, Inc., New York City
Corps of Engineers, Department of the Army, United States Government
Department of housing and buildings, city of New York
Department of public works, city of New York
Lathrop Douglass, architect, New York City
George F. Driscoll Co., general contractors, New York City
Dunwell Concrete Construction Co., New York City
Dyker Building Co., builders, New York City
Edwards & Stoye, architects, Sayville, N. Y.
Eggers & Higgins, architects, New York City
Engineer Service Co., New York City
Federal Sweets & Biscuit Co., Clifton, N. J.
Fellheimer & Wagner, architects, New York City
Irving M. Fenichel, architect, New York City
Fordyce & Hanby, architects, New York City
William H. Fuhrer, architect, New York City
Gouverneur Talc Co., Balmat, N. Y.
Grand Iron Works, New York City
Gregory, Roth, Shenker Corp., builders, New York City
G. B. Gusrae, engineer, New York City
Halliburton Portland Cement Co., Corpus Christi, Tex.
Harrison & Abromovitz, architects, New York City

John W. Harris Associates, Inc., general contractors, New York City
Hegeman-Harris Co., general contractors, New York City
Humphrey & Harding, Inc., general contractors, New York City
Ingalls Iron Works, New York City and Birmingham, Ala.
International Incinerators, Inc., Atlanta, Ga.
Johnson & Johnson, New Brunswick, N. J.
Seymour R. Joseph, architect, New York City
Karl Koch Erecting Co., Inc., steel erectors, New York City
Karp Metal Products Co., New York City
Kelly & Gruzen, architects, New York City
Krey & Hunt, engineers, New York City
Douglas Leigh, Inc., advertising displays, New York City
Ley Construction Co., general contractors, Springfield, Mass.
Raymond Loewy, industrial designer, New York City and Chicago, Ill.
Luria Engineering Co., New York City and Bethlehem, Pa.
Luria Steel & Trading Corp., New York City
Kenneth Lynch & Sons, metalsmiths, Wilton, Conn.
Memco Engineering & Manufacturing Co., Commack, N. Y.
Charles Mink, architect, Larchmont, N. Y.
Mitchell Mobilhangar Corp., New York City (for Department of the Navy, Cherry

Point, N. C.)
Ekmel Moran, designer, New York City
Moran, Proctor, Mueser & Rutledge, engineers, New York City
Alexander P. Morgan, architect, New York City
National City Bank, New York City
John Norvig, engineer, Bethlehem, Pa.
Omar, Inc., bakeries, Omaha, Nebr.
Guy B. Panero, engineer, New York City
Samuel Paul, architect, New York City
Serge P. Petroff, architect, New York City
Port of New York Authority, New York City
Robert J. Reiley, architect, New York City
Isadore Rosenfeld, architect, New York City
Emery Roth & Sons, architects, New York City
John W. Ryan Construction Co., general contractors, New York City
Michael Radoslovich, architect, New York City
Raymond Concrete Pile Co., New York City
Reinhard, Hofmeister & Walquist, architects, New York City
Riverside Cement Co., Riverside, Calif.
Robert & Co. Associates, architects and engineers, Atlanta, Ga.
Joseph J. Roberto, architect, New York City
Maurice R. Salo, architect, New York City
Sears & Kopf, engineers, New York City
Shreve, Lamb & Harmon Associates, architects, New York City
Simon Ackerman Clothes, Inc., New York City
Max M. Simon, architect, New York City
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, architects, New York City
Skinner & Cook, Inc., general contractors, New York City
F. L. Smidth & Co., engineers, New York City
Smith, Douglass Co., Inc., fertilizers, Norfolk, Va.
Snead & Co., metal works, Orange, Va.
Eldredge Snyder, architect, New York City
Steiner & Massari, builders, Fort Lee, N. J.
James Stewart & Co., general contractors, New York City
Thompson & Barnum, architects, New York City
Paul Tishman & Co., Inc., general contractors, New York City
Lester C. Tichy, architect, New York City
Urbahn, Brayton & Burrows, architects, New York City
Wates & Co., Inc., general contractors, New York City
Webb & Knapp, real estate, New York City
Western Foundation Co., New York City
Wilcox & Erickson, engineers, New York City
Simon B. Zelnick, architect, New York City

69220-55—10

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