The Board met, pursuant to adjournment, at 2 o'clock p. m.

Present: Messrs. A. O. Wharton (chairman), J. J. Dermody, G. H. Sines, C. E. Lindsay and F. F. Gaines.

The Chairman: The hearings today, gentlemen, are brought about as the result of a request received from the Order of Railroad Telegraphers, and as Chairman of the Board I desire to submit the following statement:

These hearings are being conducted pursuant to instructions contained in a letter received from the Director General dated November 10, 1919, with which he transmitted to this Board a proposition submitted by the Order of Railroad Telegraphers:

In order that the record may be complete I desire to read the letter, which is as follows:

"I enclose herewith letter from the President of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers, requesting a hearing before your Board in regard to a proposition which they have prepared covering:

"1. Request for standardization of several rules governing working conditions. "2. Readjustment of wages through the process of equalization.

"3. General increase in wages to meet the present costs of living and to reestablish pre-war standards.

"In accordance with letter of August 26, 1919, it will be proper for your Board to grant a hearing as to items 1 and 2, submitting your report and recommendations in the premises; but item 3 will have to be handled in accordance with policy outlined by the President concerning changes in pay due to the increased cost of living."

With respect to Item No. 1, which is a

Thursday, December 4, 1919. request for standardization of rules gov. erning working conditions, the Board has deemed it advisable to follow the usual procedure and has therefore organized a joint conference committee consisting of seven representatives of the Regional Directors and seven representatives of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers, who are now engaged upon the work of formulating a set of standard rules which will be submitted to this Board for its consideration and recommendation to the Director General.

Item No. 3, which deals with general increases of wages to meet the present cost of living and to re-establish pre-war standards, having been eliminated by the provisions of the Director General's letter to this Board dated August 26th, confines these hearings to Item No. 2, which involves readjustments of wages through the process of equalization.

From an examination of the proposition submitted by the Order of Railroad Telegraphers, it appears that the representatives of the employes seek a readjustment of wages on the ground that employes performing similar service are receiving on some roads higher rates of pay than on other roads, and in this connection it seems proper to read into the record a letter received from the Director General under date of October 31st, which deals with a request made by employes engaged as telegraphers on the Missouri Pacific Railroad, wherein request was made for a revision of rates of pay in order to equalize their rates with the rates paid by other companies to employes performing similar service.

"Referring to your letter of October 9th, Docket 597, relative to revision of rates of pay of telegraphers on the Missouri Pacific Railroad:

"The Missouri Pacific situation is sim

ilar to that of a great many railroads throughout the United States on January 1, 1918. Numerous negotiations were in progress and many of them had been practically completed, but upon the publication of General Order No. 5 in January, 1918, announcing the appointment of the Railroad Wage Commission to consider the compensation of persons in the railroad service, the negotiations were terminated. In a few cases, such as the Frisco line, the negotiations having been completed, were signed up in January, 1918. There are still other cases where it was not understood that General Order No. 5 forbade completing negotiations, and schedules were signed as late as February 21, 1918, the date of General Order No. 8.

"Supplement No. 13, Article VIII, Section (b), deals with the adjustment of inequalities in individual cases. Article IV, Supplement No. 13, makes special provision for supervisory agents and agents at small non-telegraph stations. Otherwise there are no provisions for adjustments of inequalities, even on individual railroads.

"In the light of the methods pursued in the past in negotiating telegraphers' schedules, this request does not appear to involve the principle set forth in the letter of the Director General dated August 26, 1919, and it is not understood that the claims have been presented on that basis.

"The telegraphers on the Missouri Pacific have received the same increases as the Frisco and other lines; the controversy is as to the adequacy of the basic rates on January 1, 1918.

"For these reasons the Director General has decided that unless the telegraphers are able to show the Wage Board that there has been an inequality in the increases granted telegraphers as compared with those granted other employes, no increase could be made in the case in question."

In addition to the Order of Railroad

Telegraphers, the Order of Railroad Station Agents and the American Association of Railroad Ticket Agents, who assume to represent certain employes coming under the provisions of Supplement No. 13, have filed a request to be heard, they have also been notified to appear at these hearings and under Article No. 7 of General Order No. 27, other employes coming under the provisions of this supplement or their representatives, upon request, may also appear.

Confining itself to the policy of the Administration as defined by the Director General in his letter to this Board dated August 26th as regards requests for general increases based upon the high cost of living; and the decision of the Administration on the question of equalization of wages as between railroads as expressed in the Director General's letter to this Board under date of October 31, 1919, the Board is ready to proceed with the hearing.

Mr. Manion, as these hearings were primarily opened at the request of your organization we will now call upon you as the representative of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers to present such facts in line with the instructions which this Board has received from the Director General as you see fit.

Mr. Manion: The wage schedules now existent on the several railroads operating under Government control, as shown in our submission now before you, contain one hundred and eighty-two different rates of pay, which, it must be conceded creates and maintains too many differentials among the classes of employes coming within the scope of Supplement 13 to General Order 27. We have endeavored as far as possible to minimize the number of differentials as evidenced in our memorandum showing revised rates requested. This, we believe, is in line with the policy of the Central Railroad Administration. Such differentials as are proposed in our request are considered necessary in order to

maintain practically the same relationship between certain classes and between positions respecting rates of pay, as obtain as regard their relative work and responsibilities.

In submitting our proposition for readjustment and minimization of present rates of pay and the number of units comprising same, we do so in accordance with the instructions contained in a letter of the Director General to your honorable Board under date of August 26, 1919, and transmitted to us by your chairman.

We hold that the changes requested in our submission do not constitute adequate remuneration for our constituents and we must have further consideration from the Central Railroad Administration to the extent at least of a horizontal increase in wages of 17 cents per hour applied to the proposed rates in our memorandum of readjustment of rates. The duties and responsibilities devolving upon those whom we represent are comparable with those of any other class or classes of skilled employes in the service of the railroads, which fact must be recognized by the Central Railroad Administration in its application of increases in pay to employes.

Our present average rate of pay is $.5575 per hour and the readjustment requested raises this to $.6418 per hour, an increase in the average rate of $.0843

per hour. This proposed readjustment does not contemplate a final disposition of the wage matter but is intended solely to establish a more comprehensive basis than now exists upon which to apply a uniform hourly increase of 17 cents per hour after the proposed readjustment has been effected.

That was the basis upon which we presented our request here for readjustment to the Board on the grounds that the Director General's letter under date of August 26, which reads:

"The President has also made it clear, however, that the Railroad Administration

is not precluded from giving prompt and careful consideration to any claims that may be made by the various classes of employes for readjustment believed to be proper to secure impartial treatment for all railroad employes."

We maintain that our proposition contemplates a more equitable wage, with consideration to the relation existing as to the responsibilities of the employes whom we represent. We have not gone outside of our own field in order to find these differences in rates of pay as between the railroads and we have in compiling this proposition maintained an average rate of pay for the entire country lower than now exists on the Southern Pacific Railroad, and we feel that we are perfectly within the meaning of the letter of the Director General when we do this.

The Chairman: I do not think, if you are expecting that I should give an answer to that, that it would be a proper question for me to decide at this time. We are not objecting to your p esenting such evidence as you desire to submit to justify the claim you have advanced, and that I believe would be in accordance with the provisions of the letter written to the Board in reply to the letter we sent him in connection with the request that you have submitted.

Mr. Manion: I see. Our request for the readjustment in the schedule rates of pay for the employes classified in Supplement No. 13 to General Order No. 27 shows that the average hourly rate of pay now in effect on the Southern Pacific Railroad System, namely: 64.19 cents per hour should be used as the basis in the readjustment of the hourly rates of pay of employes on railroads under Federal control, and that the following method be used, which, when applied will not exceed the average hourly rate now paid on the Pacific System of the Southern Pacific Railroad.

Under the caption of Agents we show 5,421 positions with 173 rates now in ef

fect which we seek to reduce to twentyfour rates.

Agents Telegraphers-do you want me to read that all, Mr. Wharton.

The Chairman: You can use your own judgment about it. We have not the infomation before us.

Mr. Manion: Then I do not think it is necessary but I would like to give you this. Under Agents and Telegraphers there are 15,666 positions and 135 different rates of pay which we seek to reduce to eleven rates.

are

Under Agent Telephoners there 2,718 positions with 101 rates of pay which we seek to reduce to eleven rates. In the General Office and Relay there are 2,239 positions which include the managers, wire chiefs, telegraphers and telephoners, the four different classes shown under the caption of General Office and Relay, and there are 121 rates of pay in effect now and we seek to reduce that to nine.

Under the caption of Division or Superintendents' Offices there are 1,468 positions, 91 rates of pay in effect now which we reduce to seven.

The Yard and Terminals 3,197 positions with 83 different rates of pay in effect reduced to seven.

Telegraphers 17,785 positions, with 94 rates of pay in effect that we reduce to eight.

Telephoners 2,229 receiving 59 different rates of pay reduced to eight.

9,238 Towermen, 98 rates of pay, reduced to eight.

4,390 Block Operators with 59 rates of pay reduced to eight.

149 Staffmen with 15 rates which we reduce to eight.

of pay

Mr. Gaines: Mr. Manion, I would like to ask right here now why, in view of the hearing of last year in which you did not wish to disturb the existing status of things, you now want to turn around and standardize. What has caused that change of feeling?

Mr. Manion: Probably a change of policy in the organization.

Mr. Gaines. It was a fact that in the previous hearing a request was made that there should be no change in the differentials then existing?

Mr. Manion: I do not know that, Mr. Gaines.

Mr. Gaines: That is the fact according to my recollection, unless I am wrong.

Mr. Dermody: Would not the minimum of 60 cents asked at the last hearing standardize many rates in your present tabulation?

Mr. Manion: It would cover 51,281 of the 64,736 positions shown in our tabulation.

Mr. Gaines: And that is, if the minimum you have requested had been granted it would have wiped out these differentials?

Mr. Manion: Yes, sir.

Mr. Gaines: However, that does not quite satisfy me as to why last year you requested the differentials to be not disturbed

Mr. Manion: Well, Mr. Gaines, we have not asked that all differentials be wiped out. You will note from our submission that we still maintain differentials that make a little higher rate for the agents than we do for the telegrapher or telephoner. We try to establish him in a little bit higher class than any of the others as a class.

Mr. Manion: Now, we have summarized this as follows: This is a comparative table showing employes covered by Supplement No. 13 to General Order No. 27 by classes between certain hourly rates.

The Chairman: Call that Exhibit A. The statement referred to is as fol lows: