that search our depository sets. We give a copy of all of our current cataloging to these libraries and they report back to us any title that they cannot find in the first search. We determine whether the item has been cataloged or is in the process of cataloging, or needs to be ordered. When the material that has been ordered comes in it is assigned priority 3. We are not 5 years behind in those areas.

LIBRARY OFFICES IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES

Mrs. GREEN. In how many countries do you now have branches for the acquisition of books under that program?

Mr. WELSH. The full justification for that is in the book. Are you speaking of the number of offices?

Mrs. GREEN. In how many foreign countries do you have offices for the acquisition of books and cataloging?

Mr. WELSH. Under the Public Law 480 Program, five offices. Under the acquisitions and cataloging program, three regional acquisitions offices. Also 10 shared cataloging centers operated under subscription by the local book supplier.

COOPERATION WITH PRIVATE COMPANIES

Mrs. GREEN. Private companies also have offices for acquisition and cataloging in several of the same countries. What is the cooperative arrangement, if any, between the Library of Congress and the private companies that acquire books in such countries?

Mr. WELSH. Are you speaking of the Richard Abel Co. ?
Mrs. GREEN. Yes and one other primarily.

Mr. WELSH. We have no cooperative arrangement with Richard Abel. We rely instead on the local dealers and working with the national bibliographies. For example, in London we work with the firm of Stevens & Brown and with the British National Bibliography.

Mrs. GREEN. Isn't it true in the cataloging of books, colleges and universities find that the Library of Congress is so far behind they contract with Richard Abel and others to provide the catalog cards?

Mr. WELSH. There are certainly a number of research libraries that do contract with Richard Abel, but I don't know there is any absolute evidence it is for that reason.

Mrs. GREEN. I have letters in the file which indicate this.

Mr. WELSH. In response to the Higher Education Act, as amended, we are, as you know, to submit a written report each year. We have now completed the 1972 report, and there are letters in that written report that testify that we are providing catalog copy for research libraries at the rate of 76 percent for those countries that we are now in. We have before this committee now a request to expand, to complete the shared cataloging program in Western Europe, and we think that that will further reduce the gap.

Mrs. GREEN. Has consideration been given to the amount of money that might be saved by the Library of Congress if they did not duplicate the service in these foreign countries and relied on the private companies which are doing exactly the same thing in at least some of the countries?

Mr. WELSH. We don't believe that a private company has the ability to do the job worldwide that is required of this program. We have not only the matter of purchase but the matter of acquiring materials through other sources. We have 22,000 exchange agreements with agencies throughout the world through which we acquire materials. Through many, many years of experience we have come to evaluate the local dealers and we have found them to be quite successful in getting materials. We also rely upon gifts as a source of material. We acquire about 8 million pieces a year throughout the world. We utilize as many sources as we possibly can.

NATIONAL COMMISSION ON LIBRARIES AND INFORMATION SCIENCE

Mrs. GREEN. On the Library Commission, what is the relationship of that commission established in the 91st Congress with the Library of Congress? What is their responsibility?

Dr. MUMFORD. The National Commission on Libraries and Information Science?

Mrs. GREEN. Yes.

Dr. MUMFORD. It is charged with studying the whole library situation of the country and to make recommendations to the Congress and to the executive of what is needed to improve library services throughout the country. As to its connection with the Library of Congress, the Librarian of Congress is a member ex officio of the Commission and we do participate in the discussions.

There is a subcommittee on the Library of Congress and we have indicated to its members the kinds of services and activities that we provide and what we could do additionally to assist libraries and individuals throughout the country.

Mrs. GREEN. As an ex officio member of the Commission, do you understand that part of the responsibility of that Commission is to look at newspapers?

Dr. MUMFORD. Look at newspapers?

Mrs. GREEN. And see about the coordination of newspaper information services, plus other information services provided by libraries? Dr. MUMFORD. I think it would be concerned with the preservation of newspapers and microfilming of them but I don't

Mrs. GREEN. I am speaking of information services.

Dr. MUMFORD. Information service from these people?
Mrs. GREEN. Yes.

Dr. MUMFORD I don't recall that.

Mrs. GREEN. What do you consider the responsibility of the Commission in regard to television?

Dr. MUMFORD. The Commission is undertaking to look at the entire picture, but I did not think it addressed itself specifically to television. The Library of Congress does attempt to keep examples of television and radio programs. It cannot undertake to keep them all.

Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Chairman, I ask these questions because I had the Chairman of this Commission come to see me the other day. A bill came out of the Education and Labor Committee and I thought it was to coordinate library services, but he told me now their responsibility

included coordination of information provided by newspapers and cable TV and television generally.

Dr. MUMFORD. May I amend what I was saying? I think the Commission is very much interested in the possibilities for educational and library purposes of the use of cable television.

Mrs. GREEN. Are they going to be up before us?

Mr. CASEY. The Commission? Would you like them?

Mrs. GREEN. It might be interesting because I didn't quite understand the original intent to have this commission get into newspaper and television coordination of information services. I still do not understand what they intend to do.

Mr. LORENZ. The Commission is interested in the use of new technology, cable television et cetera, as they would apply to libraries and other information service agencies in the dissemination of information across the country. I think they are also interested in cable television because that has been one of the issues in the copyright revision bill. It is only in terms of resolving the cable television issue and getting the copyright revision bill passed they would be concerned. Mrs. GREEN. Do you know what their budget is this year?

Mr. LORENZ. About $200,000, I think.

Mrs. GREEN. I understand it was to be $400,000.

Mr. LORENZ. They are requesting $400,000 for fiscal 1974. That comes before the Labor-Health, Education and Welfare Subcommittee of the Appropriations Committee. It is in the HEW budget. The Commission is an independent agency but for administration they are located within the HEW budget. In other words, HEW provides their administrative services.

Mr. CASEY. Mrs. Green, we will have an opportunity to hear them when they appear before our other subcommittee.

Mrs. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CASEY. Mr. Flynt?

Mr. FLYNT. Thank you.

REVIEW OF PRESENT STAFFING LEVELS

Dr. Mumford, when you and your staff request authorization for additional personnel, is any study made to determine whether any divisions or sections are overstaffed and these personnel could be made. by transfer rather than additions?

Dr. MUMFORD. I would say this is a continuing process, Mr. Flynt, to determine whether we have adequate staff or excessive staff in any one place. With the growth of the Library we are not very likely to find that we have excessive staff in any place.

Mr. FLYNT. I am certain that no division or section chief would admit that he has an excess. Was an objective study made to determine if such exists?

Dr. MUMFORD. Each department director, before he submits his budget request to me, looks at the picture carefully, and later so do I, as to whether the present staff is adequate or more than adequate or is deficient in number. There is constant attention paid to the matter, but not a formal study as you suggest.

Mr. FLYNT. From the answer that you have given, it would appear that this would be a subjective study rather than an objective study. Therefore, you would never find any division was overstaffed. It would be like trusting a rabbit to guard the lettuce part of the garden. Is any objective study made to determine excess?

Dr. MUMFORD. We know what the

Mr. FLYNT. I am delighted that you feel that there is no excess, but I am also quite certain from what I have observed over the years that if you were to ask any division or section chief in the U.S. Government if he had an overage in what he was required to perform his mission the answer would be no. I think that I will put it this way: Would you agree with me you might get entirely different answers if an objective rather than subjective study of this question were made?

Dr. MUMFORD. It is not just the opinion of the division chief. We have standards of how much work a particular person can be expected to accomplish and we know what the arrearage or the volume of work waiting to be done there is, so that it can be looked at objectively. It is not just accepting the individual's word that he needs more staff.

MADISON BUILDING

Mr. FLYNT. I think you said a few minutes ago no funds were requested, no additional funds in this year's budget, for the construction of the Madison addition to the Library?

Dr. MUMFORD. Not for construction; no. There is an item in the furniture request.

Mr. FLYNT. Has the total cost of construction been appropriated? Dr. MUMFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLYNT. Do you know of any plans other than the Page School and dormitory proposed for use of the old Providence Hospital site? Dr. MUMFORD. No, sir; I don't think any of it would be available to the Library of Congress.

Mr. FLYNT. I have no further questions.

NATIONAL PROGRAM FOR ACQUISITIONS AND CATALOGING

Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Chairman, where do I find the acquisition and catalog items?

Mr. WELSH. That is on page 105, "National Program for Acquisitions and Cataloging."

Mrs. GREEN. How many people do you have employed in that program now?

Mr. WELSH. 428.

Mrs. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CASEY. Are there any other questions at this point? [No response.]