Mr. MISSLAN. I heard a lot about that. Mr. RAKER. Have you talked with any of those men? Mr. MISSLAND. Once in a while they came over and paid somebody so much and so much for their passage, like from southern European countries. Mr. WHITE. Do you know of any instances where these persons under discussion, musicians, and others, have paid large sums of money? Mr. MISSLAND. No, sir; they paid a little graft. Mr. RAKER. How does this graft go? Mr. MISSLAND. In the consul's office in Germany. Mr. RAKER. How about the master of the vessel? Does he get anything? Mr. MISSLAND. Some private secretary, or something like that. Americans can not get the job. Mr. SABATH. These men are engaged and signed in foreign ports? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes, sir. Mr. SABATH. That is what we are trying Mr. MISSLAND. They are paid off in the United States. Mr. SABATH. Your testimony is as to the men hired in foreign ports, whether Italy, China, or Norway, or any foreign countries, that they put on a lot of men, or take on a lot of men who were not seamen and say to the captain or some one to get on merely for the purpose of being able to get to the United States, and then to get off the boats and vessels and disappear. That is the thing we want to know. Do you know anything about that? They would not engage Americans abroad. We have not gotten any over there. Mr. MISSLAND. We had 600 at one time in Hamburg. Mr. SABATH. Were they Americans? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; and they were starving. The consul had to send them back, or the Germans had to deport them. Is not that correct? Mr. FURUSETH. I do not know. Mr. MISSLAND. I heard a lot about it when the Americans were refused. That happened time, time, and time again. The CHAIRMAN. What did they mean? Mr. MISSLAND. The employment of aliens that would pay for their jobs. The CHAIRMAN. At a foreign port? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. The American ship was at the foreign port and needed a crew? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And did not have a crew? Mr. MISSLAND. They needed men especially in the fall, when lots of tourists came back. The CHAIRMAN. They had the chance now to employ Americans? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; they had the chance. The CHAIRMAN. And the Americans did not take it. Mr. MISSLAND. No, sir. Mr. RAKER. But they employed the foreigner, who might not be a seaman, and when the vessel got here the man was paid off so they would not have to take him back and the man would not have to desert. He was paid off? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Were these American sailors? Mr. MISSLAND. Why, sure; some of them were sailors amongst them. There were 600 in Hamburg. That was after the time the exchange was so big. I am talking about two years ago. Mr. FURUSETH. Some sailors, firemen, cooks, or stewards? Mr. RAKER. Is there any complaint that the captains and the other officers of these ships draw down anything by bringing these men over this way? Mr. SABATH. A graft? Mr. MISSLAND. You can never find it. You can not make a statement. Mr. RAKER. You got that information from the men that come over? Do they admit that? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; a crooked steward might bring some over, smuggle them, and put them ashore. That is done for so and so much. I have heard that many times, but I can not see them. Mr. RAKER. From your observation since you have been in the work in seeing the 'vessels coming and going, can you see any reason that a ship coming in should not take away the same amount of men that it brings in? Mr. MISSLAND. It ought to. Mr. RAKER. As a crew? Mr. MISSLAND. They ought to have just as many going out. Mr. RAKER. Would they have any trouble, from your observation, in taking away as many as they bring in? Mr. MISSLAND. They would not have any trouble at all. They go in and out, and they should take as many out as they bring in. The CHAIRMAN. Suppose three or four I. W. W.'s left the ship at the time the ship was getting clearance, what would happen? Here is a ship already to go, clearance and everything, and just about that time the I. W. W. men employed in the pantry department walk off. Mr. MISSLAND. They do not walk off. They strike on the job. Mr. DICKSTEIN. Let me ask you this question: Is not there a law whereby the master of the ship is to make a record of all able-bodied seamen or all persons manning the ship which he must submit to the authorities? Mr. MISSLAND. A record. The CHAIRMAN. A manifest? Mr. DICKSTEIN. Does not that include all persons that come in? Mr. MISSLAND. They are in the articles. Mr. DICKSTEIN. It appears in the manifest? Mr. MISSLAND. On the articles. Mr. DICKSTEIN. So that if they come in here and they pay them off and get away in some part of New York, or other parts of the country, would it not be easy to find out their names and where they come from? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; it would be easy to find out. Mr. SABATH. Yes; but there are many of them not put down on the list. There are the stowaways, and those that some of the dishonest captains or stewards bring in, and they can change their names on the manifest. Mr. FURUSETH. They go by any name. Mr. SABATH. You said that in the fall when the travel from Europe is great our American vessels and other vessels go from here with a limited number of people on the vessels, especially in the stewards' division. Coming over, of necessity they are obliged to put on larger numbers. Mr. MISSLAND. Larger numbers to serve the people. Mr. SABATH. And when they go back again they do not need them? Mr. MISSLAND. They do need them. Mr. SABATH. They leave a lot of them here? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; but they need them. Mr. SABATH. They leave a lot of them here, do they not? Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; they leave a lot of them here and take less back. Mr. WHITE. That statement then admits of this construction, admitting that they do need more coming over, does it not admit of the construction that they bring then more than they need coming over? Mr. MISSLAND. Sometimes I see a surplus, and they do not do much work, but they have a paint brush in their hand, earning their $42, what they get a month. Mr. WHITE. I do not understand, if I may interject this statement here, if it is the principle and theory and practice of the I. W. W. to practice sabotage-now logically and reasonably why does any ship captain or purser or manager want to hire them under any circumstances, knowing that fact, and they ought to know it better than we do. It has been set forth here time and time again. Mr. MISSLAND. Yes; it happens, and they have a blacklist. But it is hard to find out. I many times try to get a man on the blacklist and the Shipping Board officials get statements. Now, who will back me up? How can I get the statement? The man says, No: I am not an I. W. W." Mr. FURUSETH. That is another reason that is very important here. Mr. WHITE. This occurred to me. Mr. FURUSETH. You are right. There is a reason. We have got such an organization as the Protection and Indemnity Association. Every loss incurred by the vessel is paid for by the Protection and Indemnity Association, and the Indemnity Association gets so much money from the shipowner every year or every month or every six months, as the case might be, and the whole entire losses are divided so as to go amongst them, all in this way, and then the premiums are put onto the overhead expenses and the public pays for it all. The shipowner does not pay anything. Mr. WHITE. Would that indemnity be available in the case cited? Mr. FURUSETH. Why, of course. Mr. RAKER. It is to the interest of the I. W. W. to get on the vessel and then sabotage when he gets on the vessel? Mr. WHITE. Well, according to the statement of the witness—— Mr. MISSLAND. They strike on the job, do anything he can do. The CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you for your statement. It was very interesting. STATEMENT OF MR. JOSEPH FELTON, 6769 FRONT STREET, NEW YORK The CHAIRMAN. What is your name? Mr. FELTON. Joseph Felton. The CHAIRMAN. Where do you live, Mr. Felton? Mr. FELTON. 6769 Front Street, New York City. Mr. FELTON. I am 32 years old. Mr. RAKER. How long have you been a seaman, if at all? Mr. FELTON. I have been a seaman since 1912. The CHAIRMAN. What is your residence? Mr. FELTON. 6769 Front Street, New York City. The CHAIRMAN. What is your business? Mr. FELTON. I am a sailor. The CHAIRMAN. What kind of a sailor? Mr. FELTON. I am in the deck department. Mr. RAKER. Have you sailed over the seas considerably? Mr. FELTON. I have sailed the seas since 1912, right up until April, 1923, when I started working for the union, and I was working for the union right up to February, 1924, when I made a trip to the west coast, and I came back and paid off in April, and I went to work for the union again. Mr. Box. What are your duties for the union? Mr. FELTON. I am the agent of the New York branch of the Sailors' Union. Mr. RAKER. What do you do? Mr. FELTON. I go around trying to convince the men that they should get into the union for their benefit, and resist the efforts made by the I. W. W. and their slogan of sabotage which we are utterly opposed to, and we fight them every time we get the chance. Mr. Box. You understand your union, the legitimate union, their forces are at war with those of the I. W. W.? Mr. FELTON. At war? Mr. Box. I mean industrial war and economic war. I do not mean that you are carrying guns, but you are fighting each other all the time. Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. Mr. Box. They are trying to destroy you and you they; is not that true? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. Mr. Box. I read this in the preamble, "Moreover the trade-union aid the employing class"; is that their general attitude? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. Mr. Box. What is yours? Mr. FELTON. My attitude is to harmonize with them if I can and get along the best we possibly can. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead with your experience as a sailor. Mr. FELTON. My experience with the seamen situation is such that I come in contact with quite a bunch of men, seamen, especially on some of these foreign ships that are bringing in a whole lot more men than they actually need and go out with a whole lot less. The CHAIRMAN. When they bring the extra men in do they have them on the manifest? 1 Mr. FELTON. Sometimes they do, and they have a system that some of the heads of the departments, namely, the steward's department— they have among themselves an understanding that they call a "submarine way”—they go out of sight, do all utility work around the steward's department, and when a vessel docks in port they automatically disappear. The CHAIRMAN. They are stowaways? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir; they are stowaways. The CHAIRMAN. Prearranged stowaways. Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. If the thing were corrected they could bring what men they thought they needed on the crew list, pay them, and discharge them on arrival. Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Turn them loose in the United States with the assumption that they are going to ship foreign? Mr. FELTON. They can do that. The CHAIRMAN. If there is no ship going out he can not ship foreign. Mr. FELTON. They can. The CHAIRMAN. Sometimes they leave them? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. They have submarine arrangements, so-called? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. By which they are attached to a ship; and do they get any pay? Mr. FELTON. Some of them get paid as high as the first-class passenger fare. I can cite one case. I do not know the man very well. I have been talking to him-a ship coming from Glasgow. The man has been over before as a passenger and has been barred. He could not come into the country. He claims that he has paid the steward first-class passenger fare to come in as one of his crew, which he did, and left the vessel as soon as he got here. The CHAIRMAN. This particular man paid the steward some money, the equivalent of a fare? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What I was trying to ask is, are these men who come the submarine route, assisting on the ship, paid any money by anybody on the ship? Mr. VAILE. Do they get paid for the work they do? Mr. FELTON. No, sir; they do not. extra men at maybe 25 cents a month. These men are signed on as The CHAIRMAN. They are on the pay of the ship, paid without knowledge of the ship captain? Mr. FELTON. No, sir. Americans are signed on as counselor passengers; others on regular pay. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know any other class that comes on? Mr. FELTON. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You think they would pay if they could be slipped on? Mr. FELTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Is that going on to any extent? Mr. FELTON. It is going on to a large extent, I would say. |