We are fully capable here of electing our officers and, personally, I am opposed to the resolution.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. I am granting recognition to Mr. Holt twice, because he is the sponsor of the motion.

MR. HOLT. Another way of looking at it is on the amendment. Now, Mr. President and gentlemen of this convention, it seems to me the motion was to settle this question. It is not a question of money, it is a question of principle. We should not stop to think how much it is going to cost to conduct this referendum, we should think about the principle at stake. I contend, and I think I have every reason to contend, that the proxy system is an evil. I know it to be a fact that at one national convention a national officer actually cast 52 proxy votes, and I know one thing more to be a fact, that those two proxy Votes sent to me from Lorain, without my solicitation, were sent to me without any instructions at all. I can vote to suit myself.

The same evil exists with this proxy system of Brother Zinsmeister. He may cast them for the best interests of the United States, and yet that is not democratic representation. We want to know how these small towns and small Branches vote, what their desires in regard to the election of our national officers are. It is not for the interest of the large Branches, but any one can see that it is for the interest of the small Branches; that the small Branches throughout the United States can have a vote on the subject and elect their national officers. Are we delegates here more intellectual than the members back at home? I say, "No." They are just as well qualified to elect our national officers as we who sit here in this national convention.

Do you pretend to say to me that if this were adopted tomorrow, do you not suppose that Ed. Gainor would run again for president; don't you suppose Secretary Cantwell would run for secretary? Of course they would. I would not be much surprised if an overwhelming majority would reelect those men to the same offices, but they would not be elected by proxy, they would not be elected by the few delegates in this convention, they would be elected by the rank and file, and elected by the men, not only from the big cities, but the men from small cities throughout the United States. (Applause.)

MR. F. H. DARR, Canton, Ohio. Mr. President, it looks to me like the same old attempt made years ago to cut the small Branches out from actual representation in this convention. It was due to the proxy vote that we compelled the large offices of this country to submit to an equalization of the salary bill, as finally passed, and if it had not been for that we would be in the same situation today as we were some years ago when one of us was getting one compensation and another office was getting another compensation.

I, in most things, am in accord with what Brother Holt advocates, but I am not in accord with Brother Holt on this question of the election of national officers. I believe that after my experience in national conventions-and without being egotistical -that I am better qualified to decide upon the national officers than a majority of the members of my own Branch, simply because I have seen them in action. have some idea of their ability, and so forth, and I maintain that I am somewhat better qualified to decide upon the qualifications of the national officers than the boys back home who never saw or scarcely heard of them. Brother Holt says these gentlemen might run for reelection.

Pos

sibly; and as they have been for a long time in office, and all the boys at home know about these gentlemen. they will probably vote for them in preference to somebody they never heard of.

There is no doubt in my mind that if they were candidates, and leave it to a referendum vote, they would be overwhelmingly elected.

There was a remark made by one of the committeemen that did not strike my ideas of being fair. He made the remark that the sun will likely set at Cleveland, Ohio, inferring by that, that the Cleveland Branch was selfish, or something to that effect, looking after their own interests, etc., and I know that is not the truth. I know there is no more live wire bunch in the United States than Branch 40 of Cleveland, Ohio. I have been with them; I met them in conventions, not only national but State and district conventions, and they are not for the interest of the Cleveland Branch.

but for the entire association, and I hate to hear that kind of a remark made from a man who is supposed to pass upon the merits of these resolutions.

If we let them have the proxy vote, I doubt very much if this association could ever have had the valuable services of the present president and one of the assistant secretaries of this association, if it were not for the proxy votes that made it possible for the small offices to be represented on the board of officers and in the various positions that they might fill.

If it had not been for those proxy votes, there would be mighty few men elected from-what we used to call-the second class offices in this country.

MR. WADSWORTH, Indianapolis. I wish I had the command of words and eloquence of speech to prove the convictions of my heart on this question. There have been several allusions made to Mr. Holt's speech on this. I would like to make allusion myself, in reference to the two proxy Votes received unsolicited. That only goes to prove that any Branch that sends their proxy have confidence in a man to do that, and then when they entrust those proxies to you, you are not going to abuse that confidence.

Therefore, I believe if it is carried on the same plan as before, that a man is not going to misplace that trust that is put in him.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The question is now before you, and the question is on the amendment offered by Brother Guntrup, of Toledo, Ohio, which strikes out the initial whereas, and leaves the substance of the resolution largely the same as in the concluding part of the resolution. The question is on the amendment. All in favor of the adoption of this amendment, signify by saying "Aye," opposed, "No." The amendment is lost. Now the question is on the original motion. The committee approved the resolution, and the question is now upon the report of the committee. If you vote "yes," you are for the resolution; if you vote "No," you kill the resolution. All in favor of this motion signify by saying "Aye," opposed, "No." The motion is lost.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 54, "Testimonial for Andrew W. McKee."

Resolution No. 54-Testimonial for Andrew W. MoKee

Whereas Brother Andrew W. McKee has been pre-eminently identified with the Retirement Movement for the past sixteen years, during which time he sacrificed time, health and personal comfort in furthering the cause, and

Whereas the postal employees in New York City desiring to manifest their appreciation of his untiring efforts in behalf of retirement legislation, have decided to tender to Brother Andrew W. McKee a suitable testimonial for his earnest devotion to this cause by popular subscription among the government employees of the country, and

Whereas we believe the enactment of a Retirement Law is to a great extent due to the earnest hard work performed by Brother Andrew W. McKee and that such sacrifice of health and time in our behalf should not go unrewarded; therefore be it Resolved, That the National Association of Letter Carriers in Convention assembled at St. Louis, Mo., September 5th to 10th, 1921, do heartily endorse the tendering of a suitable testimonial to Brother Andrew W. McKee, and that the National Secre tary be requested to notify every Branch of the National Association of Letter Carriers of the adoption of this resolution, erging that subscriptions be taken up among their membership for the purpose of ndering said testimonial to Brother Mc

nee.

Submitted by Branch 36.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. The committee disapproves of this resolution for these reasons: In the first place, the work of securing these subscriptions adds work in the secretary's office, a condition that we believe should not be. The secretary has work enough to do. The secretary would have to send out the subscriptions. The National Association would have to pay the postage. The money would have to be returned to Secretary Cantwell, and he would have to turn it over to New York.

We believe, that as the resolution came from New York, they should handle it and see it is circulated throughout the coun

try. We are not opposed to this testimonial to Andrew W. McKee, because we know the work he has done, but we are opposed to saddling this work on the association. Furthermore, there were other men who have done legislative work, such as mentioned in this resolution, who have not received any recognition, and we do not think it right to discriminate in favor of Brother McKee, and saddling the work on the National Association.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The question is on the report of the committee, who disapprove the resolution.

MR. THARP, New York. Mr. Chairman, brothers, I am more than surprised to hear the recommendation of the committee on that resolution. I will say a few words, lest we forget. Here is a man, one of our own members, who took up the retirement movement many years ago, who gave it careful study and analysis, as possibly no other man in this country has given the movement. Brother McKee studied every feature of every retirement bill, not alone in this country, but he has the data and statistics on retirement of every country in the world.

Brother McKee had those statistics and data interpreted into English so that he could read them. He spent days and he spent nights. He traveled around this country. He was selected the president of the Retirement Association, working industriously to the detriment of his health and his home. You know the conditions at that boy's home. Many is the time we traveled on the train and he would say to me: "My heart is in the movement, but I am thinking of home, too." He had sickness at home. He had a wife afflicted with insanity. He had only one little boy, and we know that insanity is subject to conditions of climate. On certain conditions they become violent.

Brother McKee worked industriously studying this movement and forwarding this movement in the city of Washington. One night he collapsed in the hotelnervous breakdown. He was sent to his home. He had a report, "If you can not report in ninety days, you are dropped." I took that up with our local postmaster, Edward M. Morgan, and when Mr. Morgan heard of that he in conjunction with your national officers fought tooth and nail to keep that boy in the service, and we kept him in the service, and for nearly a whole year the Branch contributed some of the funds in order that he could live.

After that year, what did he do? Again dug into the retirement movement, gave the best that was in him, and we have the results today, and he is a broken down man, unable to perform his duties. Unfit-I would not use the word unfitbut I will say the examiners of the retirement movement examined him physically and believe his physical condition prevents him from entering the service. Now, I would like to place before this convention whether or not we are loyal to our friends out of the service, and do we forget the work that our friends in the service have done.

When we come to a convention, do not pass over the work that that little fellow did, who sacrificed health for your benefit and mine; that is not like the National Association of Letter Carriers; that is not the way they treat their friends. I do not get on this floor for the sake of soliciting alms for him. I support that resolution that his friends, the men in the different cities of this country, who know the work he has performed for his fellowmen, should not forget, and I do know there are many in this convention, many in the cities and towns at home, who will not forget.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I hope that this resolution will pass this convention. (Applause.)

MR. TRAFTON, Cleveland. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of this convention, there is no one who has been more interested in the retirement movement than I have myself. At the inception of this association, thirty-two years ago, I was present. Twenty-five years ago, at the convention in Grand Rapids, we introduced a resolution pertaining to pensions. It is almost a facsimile of your present law, only more elaborate. I am in favor of honoring any member of this association who has done anything that is going to be of material benefit to the letter carriers of today, or for the next generation, and for that reason, I would like to have this resolution deferred until we take up the matter of retirement and act upon it properly.

In that manner, we may be able to also add the names of many other men of this great National Association, who have taken many hours, and many days, for the benefit of humanity, which I believe this movement is, and is one of the greatest things established for letter carriers of this country. I hope this resolution can be deferred until that time, and then probably acted upon. I do not believe we are in the frame of mind just at present to take it up.

MR. CHAPMAN, Toledo, Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the New York Branch regarding a communication sent out by the New York Branch about six months ago. We took up a collection for Mr. McKee, and sent it to New York.

MR. FOY, New York. Mr. Chairman, in New York City we organized the McKee testimonial. I introduced a resolution in Branch 36 that the national officers be asked to take up this question. I do not know for what reason the national officers forwarded back a report to the secretary of that organization and said they could do nothing. There were other members through the country who had done good work, I am willing to admit. There have been plenty of men in the country who have done good work, but, thank God. their health is not gone the same as Andy As Brother Tharp said, that man McKee. is not able to work, is under the doctor's care at the present time, and that is why we took up this contribution, and more shame to say it, out of the whole United States, or 33,000 carriers, there was $2,000 contributed.

Now, there are a half million men in the United States that have benefited by the work of McKee and his co-laborers, and that is why I hope to see this testimonial. Do not think of the work the National Secretary has to do, think of the work Andy McKee has done for 500 men and 33,000 carriers.

MR. FREY. Mr. President. I had the pleasure of being at the first retirement meeting, at which Mr. McKee was elected. Before I go on, the brother says out of 33.000 men in the whole country there was only $2,000 contributed. They could not have put up $10 apiece in New York, then, if I can figure right. (Applause.)

MR. FOY, New York. They did not. MR. FREY. I, in my humble way, did as much as Andy McKee, because I gave the best that was in me; so did every other man. I have at home, in my pocket. the proceedings of the first convention of the National Association of Letter Carriers, that Mr. Trafton talked about, in which his name is mentioned from top to bottom, and one of the preeminent features there was the retirement feature. From that time he has battled. and in every convention you find men like Trafton, our old war horse, who have battled for retirement.

Do not try to throw this in here: take it up again; try it again. You local men, probably you will do better the next time. PRESIDENT GAINOR. The resolution is before you. You are voting on the committee's recommendation. The committee disapproves. If you vote "Aye" the resolution is out, if you vote "No." then the resolution before you remains in the affirmative form. All in favor of the adoption of this motion signify by saying "Aye," opposed "No." The chair is in doubt. Once more. All in favor signify by saying "Aye," The opposed "No." Ayes have it and the resolution is defeated. (Applause.)

Chairman Herkenham read No. 55. "Franked Mail."

Resolution

Resolution No. 55-Franked Mail

Whereas the Post Office Department is facing a large deficit, and

Whereas the Post Office Department receives no credit for franked matter; therefore be it

Resolved. That our national officers do all in their power to urge Congress to enact a law which will give the Post Office Department credit for all mail franked. Submitted by Branch 40.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends its adoption.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? Agreed to.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 56, "Lord's Day Alliance."

Resolution No. 56-Lord's Day Alliance

Whereas we should ever be mindful of those who have been so kind as to favor us in any way; therefore be it

Resolved, That we express to the Lord's Day Alliance and other kindred organizations our thanks and appreciation for their past favors and present earnest efforts in our behalf.

Submitted by Branch 14.

The committee approves this resolution and recommends its adoption.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? It is agreed to.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 57, "Sanitation and Health."

Resolution No. 57-Sanitation and Health

Whereas the health of the employees is important for the good of the service as well as for the employees, and

Whereas good working conditions, especially ventilation, are necessary to that end, and

Whereas the mezzanine floor is unhandy, unsanitary and uncomfortable; therefore be it

Resolved, That the national officers be instructed to urge that the mezzanine floors be discontinued as workrooms for postoffice employees.

Submitted by Branch 404.

The committee approves this resolution and recommends its adoption. PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? It is agreed to.

Chairman Herkenham read No. 58, "Cooperation."

Resolution

Resolution No. 58-Cooperation Whereas during the past few years we have received many benefits through legislation, and

Whereas our country is passing through a prolonged business depression that has seriously affected its income, and

Whereas President Harding has issued a "call for the most rigid economy in all departments of the Government," and

Whereas Postmaster General Hays has asked all postal employees to cooperate to eliminate all waste and unused time, asking only that we give a fair day's work consisting of eight hours and assuring every postal employee that nothing unreasonable or impossible will be asked of them; therefore be it

Resolved, That we, the members of the National Association of Letter Carriers. in convention assembled, go on record to cheerfully and willingly heed our country's call and do all in our power to assist the Government during these trying times. Submitted by Branch 34.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends its adoption. PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? It is agreed to. Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 59, "Eight-in-Ten-Hour Law."

Whereas this custom has resulted in added work on routes and has in many cases prevented additions to the carriers' force in these offices, and

Whereas in many cases it has worked a hardship on the rank and file; therefore be it

Resolved, That we, the members of the National Association of Letter Carriers in convention assembled at St. Louis, Mo., September 5th to 10th, 1921, go on record as approving a ruling of the department providing that all carriers end their respective tours of duty at their postoffice. Submitted by Branch 34.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends its adoption.

MR. REITZ, Buffalo, New York. Mr. President, a point of information. I would like to know if it is in order to amend that, prohibiting the carriers going in their district and returning on bicycles, as obtains in many cities. PRESIDENT GAINOR. Brother Edward F. Reitz, of Buffalo, N. Y., inquires whether an amendment could be added that would be germane, regarding bicycles. The chair will entertain an amendment of that kind.

MR. EDWARD F. REITZ. I wish to make an amendment to prohibit carriers from riding to and from their district, on duty, on bicycles, or other vehicles furnished at their own expense.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Mr. Reitz wishes to add an amendment prohibiting carriers from riding to and from their districts, on duty, on bicycles and other vehicles, furnished at their own expense. CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. The committee accepts that amendment.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The question is on the original motion.

MR. EASON, San Diego, Calif. I want to offer an amendment, "except under unusual circumstances,' or some such matter. We, in our town, have several times wanted to attend the funeral of a brother carrier, and we have been able to do that by ending our tour of duty on our route, not habitually, but under extraordinary circumstances. I would like some sort of an amendment that would cover that.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The chair cannot furnish the amendment. The question is upon the report of the committee. All in favor of adopting the report of the committee will signify by saying “Aye," opposed "No."

The resolution was carried. Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 61, "Swings."

Resolution No. 61-Swings

Whereas in many offices carriers are required to swing for a very few minutes at a time, several times daily, and

Whereas we believe that this condition is not fair; therefore be it

Resolved, That this Twenty-third Convention of the N. A. L. C. recommend legislation eliminating all swings but one, and that not less than 30 minutes. Submitted by Branch 176.

The committee approves this resolution and recommends its adoption.

MR. WALTERS. Mr. Chairman, I understand the committee has reported favorably on this resolution. That practically means, brothers, as I understand it, a tour of duty of eight hours with thirty minutes.

I would like to ask the chairman if he reports this resolution favorably, and it does not mean if it is adopted that it provides for a tour of duty of eight hours with thirty minutes.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. We interpret it where it is the custom to swing carriers more than once a day; this is not the lunch hour.

MR. BROWN, Chicago. I would like to offer an amendment, by adding to it, "Not less than thirty minutes or more than sixty minutes." That would make the eight hours in nine.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The amendment is lost for the want of a second. The question is on the report of the committee. Question called for and resolution was adopted.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 62, "Bulletin Service."

Resolution No. 62-Bulletin Service Whereas it is the custom to have all laws, amendments and any legislation affecting the interests of the Letter Car

riers of the United States to be published in the Postal Record, the official journal of the N. A. L. C., in the number following the enactment of such laws, and

Whereas believing that the membership of the N. A. L. C. is entitled to a bulletin service in connection with the Postal Record; therefore be it

Resolved, That the delegates from Ozark Mountain Branch No. 203 be instructed to work for such a bulletin service, and to impress upon the delegates assembled at the Twenty-third Convention of the N. A. L. C., at St. Louis, Mo., September 5th to 10th, 1921, the importance of this resolution, and to vote for same. Submitted by Branch 203.

The committee disapproves the resolution.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Any objection? It is agreed to.

MR. WITHERSPOON, Springfield, Mo. What I want to say, Mr. President, is when there is legislation in Congress affecting postal employees, there is an organization of clerks who send out a bulletin every time anything comes up affecting them, and they advise their members to get in touch with their Congressmen and have them vote for or against the bill, which ever way it affects them. With us carriers, we do not know what is going on, it is either passed or defeated before we get hold of it. What we want is that when any legislation is up that affects us, we will get a letter about it, we will get it every week; we do not want to take a back seat with the clerks.

a

I believe we ought to get bulletin every once in a while on these matters. I have been in the service for three years, and I have never seen a bulletin. We are paying more per capita tax than those fellows, and yet they are getting better service.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. If the convention desires, I will request Secretary Cantwell to say a few words on this subject. SECRETARY CANTWELL. Mr. President and brothers, from my experience in watching the different bulletins that have been sent out by postal organizations to the employees throughout the country, they have had a very detrimental and bad effect. I have now a series of those bulletins, and in going over them, there has been more misinformation sent out to the employees than the actual facts.

Now, in conducting a campaign for legislation, it is very necessary at times to acquaint the membership with certain work that should be performed, and when those occasions arise, we try to get up a statement of the facts, and then advise the membership of the very best thing that should be done to accomplish results. I find that in doing this the membership is very responsive.

If these unreliable bulletins-and all they are are statements taken from the daily newspapers in Washington and from the Congressional Records-are sent out, if that kind of mush is sent out to the employees, when we do want something done, they consider the important thing in the same manner as this other stuff. Those are the actual facts.

It is not a desire to shirk any work, for if you placed this bulletin service on the national officers, you would have to employ a man to take care of it, and 2.000 two-cent stamps every week is forty dollars. You cannot employ any kind of a man to do competent work for less than thirty or forty dollars a week and, in my judgment, it is money ill-spent and will have no good result, and I say that in all earnestness. It will be harmful, if anything.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. The com

fifty feet long. You would have marched more than that if it had not rained Monday. The letter carriers should not kick about walking. (Laughter.)

Mr. Chairman, I want to say that we would like to have every delegate in line, we want to show the citizens of St. Louis how many people we have here.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Remember, Brother Hammer made the motion this morning, you voted for it unanimously, so you are all guilty. (Applause.) Let us go through with our own agreement.

MR. HAMMER. The permit has been secured and we have an escort of police and the traffic squad will see that we get a clear roadway without a stop. PRESIDENT GAINOR. And you march right down and get on the boat and stay on it until two o'clock tomorrow morning. (Laughter.)

MR. HAMMER. If any band members are here, they are to notify their organization of this parade and they are requested to be present with their instruments at the Claridge Hotel at twelvethirty. You will have lunch on the boat. (Applause.)

MR. CASEY, Memphis. Now, we want to understand this situation, gentlemen. We have met with some conditions here that are very unsatisfactory to us, and we hope to not meet any more. Mr. Hammer said "everybody," he didn't include us as carriers, I suppose. At noon we got the instructions-our ladies' auxiliary did-that they were not to ride with the white ladies, but to go with somebody else who had provided for them. We want to understand what we are to do. This thing is local and we want to know what to do; we do not want to be kicked around as if we were inhuman.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Brothers, let us face this condition bravely. Is there any condition on the boat that would cause inconvenience because of color?

MR. HAMMER. I could not answer that question. I would have to find that out and let you know in the morning. The local committee has elected a colored delegate and has selected two other members of the Branch and has placed in their hands the full power to entertain all colored delegates and colored visitors. I do not know what more has been done. I would answer the gentleman and state that I will find out for you before tomorrow morning and advise you as to whether there will be any objection to your participating in that affair. I do not believe there will.

MR. CASEY, Memphis. I want to make this explanation: We were left on the sidewalk and finally a colored undertaker came along and saw us there. I suppose he had some sympathy for us, he said, "There are some fellows that have been left behind." Everybody rode off and left us. He said, "I will send an automobile back for you," and he sent one back for us.

I feel like I would rather be in Memphis, Tenn., than in St. Louis and be treated that way. We are human just like anybody else, and I protest my right. Now, of course. some one told us as soon as I got here that this is a Southern city. We came here on invitation, we came here to participate in this national work, we love the work, and everybody has something to say about the color line. If that is the case, never again will I visit north of the Mason-Dixon line.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. We will not permit any further discussion of this matter now. Brother Hammer, will you give me the information in the morning, and I hope the conditions will be such that there will be no embarrassment. Whatever it is, give me the information.

MR. MARCKS. St. Louis. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I can give you the information right now. I want every delegate to understand that any entertainment that is directly under control of Branch 343 no distinction is made as to race, creed or color. (Applause.) If, unfortunately, entertainments are given at various places where this distinction is raised, we cannot help it. we are sorry, and, therefore, the committee has enendeavored to elect and did elect a colored delegate on their delegation and gave him full power to avoid any unpleasant

ness.

I want to say this much, that I know positively that there are no mixed excursions on these boats. If it is under the auspices of an organization and white people frequent those excursions, the colored person is barred, and it acts in the

opposite direction when the colored people give their excursion, which they often do on the same boat, when the white men are barred. I think that is a fair proposition.

a

I want every man at this convention to understand that while this may be Southern city, we are not against any particular race or against any other proposition, and that Branch 343 has just as big a heart for the colored brother as for the white brother. (Applause.)

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Brother Hill, I would like to give you recognition, but regular business is called for.

Cries from floor, "Let him speak." PRESIDENT GAINOR. Five minutes is the limit.

MR. P. M. E. HILL, Yazoo, Miss. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen. Today the gentleman said there was no discrimination made. He put a little table back under a cover there and told me to go back down there. I told him I could not do that, for the stand that I have taken against discrimination and segregation before at Dallas and other places, and have written in the Postal Record, that I would not go back there, so I did not. The gentleman from New York can tell you that I did not go back there. There was a little place set there, so there was some discrimination.

The man you put out there, Mr. Marcks, offered me some of those tickets and things. I told Mr. Marcks that I am a free man and the place where I am from would not countenance this. I am from Nebraska, if you will know. I left the war and came to Yazoo City as a carrier and have remained there, but so far as my home and my children are concerned, they are educated where there is absolute freedom.

I do not care where I go, I will stand for all men up and no men down. I never expect to cater to any place for its prejudice. Dallas, Texas, which is away back yonder, did not offer the same discrimination that we are getting here. When you come to talk about what happened at other conventions, I am one to tell you what happened at other conventions, and not one convention has offered us the very thing we have gotten at this place. That is what I want to tell you.

Now, gentlemen, I will agree with Mr. Casey; if we are to be set aside in any way, I say I won't go down there. I have not been any place where they give me a separate thing. I believe in freedom to everybody, as much to the white or anybody. I cater to the man who can give me the best thing, if it is a white man, it is all right; if it is a Jap, it is all right; if it is a Chinaman, it is all right. I care not for your color, for God said, "Out of one blood came all generations to live and dwell upon the face of the earth," and when we go further than that, we are disobedient to the moral laws of God. to say nothing about the States. The State of Nebraska has one of the most drastic civil rights bills you ever have seen, and they did not dare to do this when we had the convention; neither did California; neither did Texas. Texas, I want you to know, did not offer us the same kind of an insult. Therefore, if anybody discriminates against me, if it is a millionaire, I will not accept it.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. We will continue with the report of the Resolutions Committee.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 63. "Work Done by Supervisory Employees."

Resolution No. 63-Work Done by Supervisory Employees

Whereas it has become a growing practice in the Post Office Department for supervisory officials and clerks to perform such duties as should be strictly allotted to letter carriers, namely, boxing up and holding out of firm mail, casing and routing mail on carriers' routes, redirecting mail and entering removal notices, and

errors

Whereas the responsibility for committed under this system are generally charged to letter carriers, which practice under such circumstances is most unfair, and this practice often results in considerable delay to the public; therefore be it Resolved, That the Twenty-third Convention of the National Association of Letter Carriers instruct our national officers to use every effort to have this unsatisfactory condition corrected through the officials of the Post Office Department

or by legislation, and have the street work of letter carriers limited to not more than five (5) hours, thereby allowing three (3) hours for the proper routing of all mail and any other work as enumerated above in connection with their duties.

Submitted by Branch 36.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends the adoption of the report.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? It is agreed to.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 64, "Lost Registered Mail Matter."

Resolution No. 64-Lost Registered Mail Matter

Whereas Section 973 of the Postal Laws and Regulations provides, "In case of the loss of domestic registered mail in the postal service, indemnity shall be paid the sender, or at the request of the sender to such interested person as the sender may designate, for the value thereof, not exceeding $50 in any one case of first-class matter, and not exceeding $25 in any one case of third-class matter,' and

Whereas in the case of loss of registered mail matter by a city letter carrier, he is held responsible for the full value of the lost piece of registered mail matter even though the value be in excess of the amounts guaranteed the senders, and must pay same over to the Post Office Department, and

Whereas

we feel that no employee of the postal service should be held personally responsible for the loss of registered matter in excess of the amounts guaranteed the senders by the Post Office Department; therefore be it

Resolved, By the Twenty-third Convention of the National Association of Letter Carriers, that we do instruct our incoming board of officers to secure, either by a regulation from the Post Office Department or by a law from Congress, an amendment to the Postal Laws and Regulations which would limit an employee's liability to $50 on any one piece of firstclass registered matter, and $25 on any one piece of third-class registered mat

ter.

Submitted by Branch 1.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends its adoption.

MR. KENNEDY, Buffalo. Mr. Chairman, why make the limit fifty dollars?

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. Did you get the point of this resolution?

MR. KENNEDY, Buffalo. Yes, I believe I do.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. The Government insures a package of first-class matter for fifty dollars; if the carrier loses the package or registered letter, he is required to pay the full amount, and the Government only makes a return of fifty dollars.

MR. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I would like to have something to say on that. Loss of registered mail appeals to me at this time, because there is a case pending in Buffalo now. There does not seem to be any way of determining when a letter carrier is to blame.

A substitute letter carrier in the city of Buffalo, in May, 1919, delivered a letter addressed to the Main Arcade. It was addressed to a man who received his mail at the news stand there. It was not addressed carefully; the proprietor's wife signed for this registered letter, and, as I understand the postal laws, that was perfectly legitimate delivery. She was the owner of that stand.

a

Two years after the carrier was notified that he would have to make good this fifty dollars. This is what happened to the letter: The woman signed for the letter, placed it on the cash register, somebody else came in, some other man who was in the habit of receiving his mail there; he took the letter, opened it up, put it back on the cash register, and it was afterwards returned to the sender, minus the fifty dollars.

The claim was made on the proprietor of the news stand. She paid the fifty dollars, under protest, and the last news I had from this man he was told that the first installment would be taken out of his pay. I understand there is redress, but the point is: When is a delivery a proper delivery? The postal law says that in the matter of guests in rooming houses and hotels, a registered letter or package can be signed for by the proprietor, but is not to be delivered to minors.

MR. LARNER.

I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is not speaking on the resolution.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The chair will rule the point not well taken, because Brother Kennedy has permission to explain this.

MR. KENNEDY. That is the point I want to get out-when is a piece of mail properly delivered? If that was not a proper delivery, then he is liable. Following that "guest rule," it may be delivered to the proprietor and when he so delivered it he was through with it. PRESIDENT GAINOR. You have heard the report of the committee. objection? It is agreed to. Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 65, "Payment to Service Men."

Any

Resolution No. 65-Payment to Service Men

Whereas many cities and corporations throughout the country paid their employees who were called to the colors during the World War. the difference between their service pay and their salary; therefore be it

Resolved, That the Council of Administration be instructed to use their best efforts to secure the same for the men in the carrier service.

Submitted by Branch 3.

The committee disapproves of this resolution.

MR. REITZ, Buffalo. For a point of information, I would like to know why they disapprove of this resolution.

MR. HERKENHAM. The committee disapproves of this resolution for one or two reasons. In the first place, did the carriers who went into the service sell their patriotism? In the second place, there are not many corporations or anyone who paid their service pay, paid the difference in the pay to their employees who were in the service, and this would involve a great deal of litigation and trouble on the part of our national officers and we do not think it consistent to take up a proposition like this.

MR. REITZ. I do not believe it is a question of what litigation falls upon our national officers; it is just a question of the number of local cities and corporations who did pay their men part of the difference in their salary and their service pay, and I know the boys in Buffalo are looking for the same thing, and I imagine all the boys in the country are looking for the same thing. I move the resolution be adopted.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The question is on the report of the committee, which disapproves the recommendation. All in favor of adopting the report of the committee will say "Aye," opposed "No." The "Ayes" have it, and the resolution is disapproved.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. Resolution No. 66 was disposed of Tuesday morning. Read Resolution No. 67, "Union Label.

Resolution No. 67-Union Label

Whereas it is the duty of every member of the National Association of Letter Carriers to aid and cooperate with his brother workman in the other branches of the organized labor movement, and

Whereas the purchase of union-made goods is a powerful weapon to use in advancing the cause of labor and should be used in justice to friendly employers of labor, who have recognized the right of the workingmen to organize for their protection and the advancement of their interests; therefore be it

Resolved, That the Twenty-third Convention of the National Association of Letter Carriers urge the members of the association to demand the Union Label and to purchase only such articles as bear the Union Label.

Submitted by Branch 36.

Whereas when an applicant for the position of letter carrier is subject to the necessary civil service examination nothing is mentioned or required of him relative to any knowledge or qualification as a chauffeur, and

Whereas it is a well-known fact that a carrier is assigned to a parcel post motor vehicle as a chauffeur without proper training and experience in driving automobiles, thereby endangering himself and others, as well as the car, for which he is held responsible; therefore be it

Resolved, That the Twenty-third Convention of the National Association of Letter Carriers urge the national officers to use every effort to remedy this situation and endeavor to have the present system abolished.

Submitted by Branch 36.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends the adoption of the report.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? MR. DUFFY. Does the committee contemplate the abolition of the letter carrier's chauffeur.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. No. Very often a man comes up to take the civil service examination. They will ask him if he is willing to work on a motor vehicle. He has had no experience; he takes the civil service examination, which contains nothing in it in regard to motor vehicles. Then he passes the examination; as soon as he gets in the service, they put him on a motor vehicle.

MR. DUFFY. They train him in Chicago. If we do not put a letter carrier in this position, somebody else would be put in. Have you abolished this? It means the elimination of letter carriers as chauffeurs, unless they are trained, and they are trained.

I would like to have the committee of the Post Office Department adopt the viewpoint of this convention and put it to a vote. What will happen?

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Brother Duffy wants to know if the Post Office Department adopts the committee's viewpoint, what will then happen.

CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. It is my opinion the Post Office Department will see these men are duly trained before they are put on motor vehicles.

MR. J. GRAMLICH, Washington. D. C. We have that same system in effect in Washington, D. C., now. There are several men in the service knowing nothing about driving vehicles. They are trained after they signify their intentions to take over a car. The city authorities will not permit you to run a car unless you are properly qualified.

MR. JAMES L. FOY, New York City. Mr. Chairman, the reason that resolution was introduced is because a carrier in New York is not asked if he wants to go on a motor vehicle. He is simply told to go on it, and if he does not he will never get a delivery route. He is forced to go. He does not want to be trained properly because he did not come in to take the job as a chauffeur. That is why that resolution was introduced.

None of the men in the stations that I am in would get on that wagon. They sent down to another station and got another man, who is not a member of the national organization. He came up and took that wagon. What is the outcome? He is now on a delivery route and some man who came in long after those men. who were too timid, is next in line for a delivery route. That is not fair. The Department should ask a man if he is willing to serve as a chauffeur, or if he thinks he is qualified. A great many men will not take that examination, for the reason the Department will not protect them if they run over somebody, or will not take care of their family if they are injured.

MR. R. J. ROONEY, Portland, Oregon. The first of July of this year, Government-owned parcel post trucks were installed in the city of Portland. Previous to that time, about the last week of June. the carriers were not asked if they cared to go on those trucks, they were ordered to by the supervisory officials, and with an hour or two instructions in their own time. They were ordered to report after working hours to take a few lessons on driving trucks. One of the carriers in particular said he did not wish to have anything to do with them. He was of a very nervous temperament, and he tried to get out of driving a truck. He was told he would have to go on. The first part of the month of July, I saw this car

rier in particular. In running a truck no greater distance than the length of this hall he stalled the truck four different times, and at that time he was in one of the principal streets of the city, going from the garage to the postoffice.

The chauffeur who was teaching him, connected with the garage, had left him three times, but when he saw the predicament the carrier was in, he stayed with him until he got him going down hill.

There is a question in my mind: Was that carrier obliged to work on that automobile truck; was he obliged to take his instructions without the time being shown on the clock after the day's work was done?

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The question is called for. The question before you now is on the report of the committee, which approves this resolution. All in favor of adopting the report of the committee will signify by saying "Aye," opposed "No." The resolution was adopted. We have four more resolutions.

put them through.

Chairman Herkenham read

Let us

Resolution No. 69, "Two Carriers on Parcel Post Vehicles."

The committee approves the resolution and recommends the adoption of the report.

MR. HILL. Mr. Chairman, will you allow me to have the floor for a few minutes ?

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Certainly. MR. HILL. Mr. Chairman, I have been sitting here all afternoon and listening to every word that has been said.

Mr. Duffy there mentioned something about automobiles a few minutes ago, and I do not believe there is another man in this audience today that has had more experience than I have had in running those "cans"-the word "cans" is a nickname for Fords.

Now, then, brothers, to give you an illustration of this

MR. HEGWER. Is he talking for the motion or against it? PRESIDENT GAINOR. Are in you favor of this resolution?

A point of information.

came

were

or were arbitrarily removed, at one grade lower than that at which such employee left the service, if reinstated within one year from date of separation therefrom, and at two grades lower if reinstated within two years, is unfair because of the experience and training of such employees, and Whereas in the case of an employee, who has been arbitrarily removed from the service, reinstatement is permitted after review of his case, at a reduction in salary, the injustice done to such employee has not been corrected, and believing that if he is capable as a letter carrier, no good reason exists why he should not be restored to his former grade of salary; therefore be it

Resolved, That the Twenty-third Convention of the National Association of Letter Carriers instruct their national officers to use every effort by representation to the officials of the Post Office Department, or by legislation, to have this injustice corrected, and to provide that all applicants for reinstatement, approved by the Post Office Department, shall be restored to their former grade of salary upon reinstatement.

Submitted by Branch 36.

The committee approves the resolution and recommends its adoption.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. No objection? It is agreed to.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 71, "Treasury Savings Securities." Resolution No. 71-Treasury Savings

Securities

Resolved, That the Twenty-third Convention of Letter Carriers endorse the campaign of the Government Loan Organization in its sale of Treasury Savings Securities, and urge the membership of the N. A. L. C. to give this matter all the publicity possible.

Chairman Herkenham read Resolution No. 72, "Resolutions."

Resolution No. 72-Resolutions Whereas the Resolutions Committee of the Twenty-third Convention of the N. A. L. C. had a large number of resolutions submitted to them, among which than one resolution appears on a single sheet and very often without duplicate copies, and

more

Whereas this condition caused the committee a great deal of arduous and unnecessary work, as well as loss of valuable time; therefore be it

Resolved, That this Twenty-third Convention instruct the National Secretary in the future not to accept resolutions unless each resolution is prepared on a single sheet of paper, and in duplicate form. Submitted by Resolutions Committee. CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. I want to state, you can see the pile of resolutions The retirement resolutions have been separated, and that is what is left for this committee to wade through.

MR. HILL. I want to add something to it. (Laughter.) Mr. President and brothon the table. as this thing has been brought up, ers, now the twenty years I have been in the service, ten years I have been carrying, five years I have been collecting, and the last five years I have been running one of these Ford "cans." Ever since they into existence-they substituted for horses since July 1, 1916-there is no man knows more about the conditions in the garage in Chicago than I do. Here, my partner, whom I have worked with for five years, is laid up for five weeks on account of being struck by a machine. I, myself, had a narrow escape two weeks ago, and that is only one of many escapes, mishaps through no fault of my own.

Question called for.

MR. HILL. I would like to finish this. PRESIDENT GAINOR. The convention will come to order, a little bit of merriment is all right. Brother Hill, you have had five minutes, and your time has expired.

MR. HILL. If that is so, I will have to sit down. (Applause.) Resolu

PRESIDENT GAINOR. The tions Committee approves the resolution. Is there any objection? Agreed to. read Chairman Herkenham No. 70, "No Reduction in Grade on Reinstatements to Service.'

Resolution

Resolution No. 70-No Reduction in Grade on Reinstatements to Service Whereas the present rule of the Post Office Department, providing for the reinstatement of employees who resigned,

We found seventeen resolutions on two sheets of paper, no duplicate copies whatever. We had to wade through all these resolutions. If that had not occurred, we would have had this report in the hands of the printer a half day sooner. We bring this up so the Secretary can instruct the Branches how to send in these resolutions. The committee approves this resolution and recommends its adoption.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Is there any objection? It is agreed to. How many resolutions has the Committee? CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. Seven or eight. We will have them ready tomorrow morning.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. You will have them ready for some subsequent session. MR. SNYDER. I would like to ask the chairman of the committee if he has not a resolution in regard to fires in garages. CHAIRMAN HERKENHAM. Yes, have. We can report that right (Read Resolution No. 73.)

we now.

Philadelphia, Pa., August 18, 1921. To the Officers and Members of Keystone Branch No. 157, N. A. L. C. Gentlemen: At present there are approximately 100 letter carriers assigned to operate Government-owned trucks in the delivery and collection of mails in the city of Philadelphia, Pa., and

Whereas, while engaged in the operation of said Government-owned mail trucks cer

tain of said carriers have been involved in collisions and accidents, in some few instances causing serious injury to pedestrians on the highways, and

Whereas these accidents in a majority of cases are caused by contributory negligence on the part of the injured persons, and

Whereas said carriers, as a result of these accidents, have been arrested and held in bail, which they have been obliged to furnish at their own expense, and at trial also obliged to furnish counsel to defend them, and

Whereas all employers of chauffeurs in other industries furnish bond and counsel for their employees in case of accident, therefore be it

Resolved, That this matter be brought to the attention of the delegates assembled in convention at St. Louis, Mo., September 5th to 10th, for their attention and action, and be it further

Resolved, That this resolution be brought to the attention of the Post Office Department through the officers of the organization.

On January 22nd, 1920, a fire broke out in the paint shop of the Philadelphia postoffice garage, destroying paint shop, stock room and locker room, and as a result of the fire the employees of the Philadelphia postoffice garage suffered a monetary loss, due to the fact that their clothing and other personal effects were destroyed in this fire, and

Whereas, a bill was introduced by the Hon. Geo. P. Darrow, of the Sixth Pennsylvania Congressional District, looking to the reimbursement of said employees for their loss, and

Whereas said bill has been referred to the claims committee and no definite action taken on same, therefore be it

Resolved, That this resolution be referred to the delegates assembled in convention at St. Louis, Mo., week of September 5 to September 10, and that they be urged to try and bring about a fair and equitable adjustment of these claims.

EDWARD S. RODGERS, Philadelphia Postoffice Garage. JOHN J. CULLEN,

JOHN S. MONROE. Approved Keystone Branch, No. 157, N. A. L. C.

JOHN J. NATHANS, Secretary.

read the names of the committee of thirtyone, on M. B. A.

Mr. Stinson read list of names.

MR. MORGAN. I would substitute George S. Davis, of Nashville, Tenn., for Rudolph E. Warner.

MR. FICKEL. Mr. Chairman, will you please have this list read again tomorrow morning, for the benefit of the membership on this committee. Heretofore I have had to run around and hunt these committeemen up personally. I have arranged with Brother Hammer for the outfitting of this room to the right of the hall for our sessions, and we will meet there tomorrow morning immediately upon the convening of the convention.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. Fine, Brother Fickel, I will cooperate with you and I believe I can assure the members of the Committee of Thirty-One, who worked so hard at preceding conventions, that their work will not be so hard this time, and I suggest that they attend these sessions and be prepared to make a hurried report.

MR. FLAHERTY. Is that question settled, Mr. Chairman? I would like to ask the chairman of the Resolutions Committee a point of information, if I am in order. PRESIDENT GAINOR. We cannot bring them back now. We want you to come up and submit your report, as chairman of the Substitute Committee.

MR. CUSICK, Duquesne, Pa. We put in a resolution there that has not been reported.

PRESIDENT GAINOR. There are several more still out. Speak to the chairman of the Resolutions Committee.

MR. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, may I be permitted to offer a substitute? At the last five conventions, Buffalo has had a member on that Committee of Thirty-One. PRESIDENT GAINOR. Yes, I think you gave me a name and it escaped me. Put in the name of Edward F. Reitz.

The chairman of the National Committee on Substitutes will now present his report.