The CHAIRMAN. The strictly rural travel is very largely for marketing purposes, is it not?

Mr. MACDONALD. The strictly rural traffic would be that which began at a rural point and ended in a rural destination, whatever its purpose. But it is only 13.8 percent. The 36.6 percent

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Would include bringing goods to market?

Mr. MACDONALD. Yes, sir. There is a variation when we get into a highly populated and highly industrialized State like Ohio. That has origin and destination both urban running as high as 67.5 percent. But in Utah, a State that is sparsely populated, having vast distances, it runs down to 8 percent.

Mr. CAPOZZOLI. Do you have New York in that group?

Mr. MACDONALD. No; we do not have New York.

The CHAIRMAN. Does the fact that the heaviest traffic seems to centralize in the eastern half of the United States make the financial burden very much greater on the Western States by reason of their long distances of travel and relatively sparse settlement?

Mr. MACDONALD. Yes, Mr. Chairman; that is true. There is considerable discussion among various State highway departments as to the allocation formula to be used for apportioning Federal funds between the States. There is an inclination on the part of some of the Eastern States to look askance at the formula that is supported by some of the Midwest and Western States. Actually, so far as Federal funds are concerned, the States as States have very little if any effect. Our taxes are individual taxes that we pay to the Federal Government. The States as such pay no taxes to the Federal Government.

The CHAIRMAN. But with their 50 percent-contribution they have that burden upon them, do they not?

Mr. MACDONALD. Yes. If analysis is made on that basis, the indi`vidual in a Western State has to pay very many times more than an individual in an Eastern State pays for the maintenance which he guarantees and for his contribution to the Federal-aid roads.

The CHAIRMAN. I was wondering, with reference to this proportion of 75 percent to 25 percent, whether it might apply more particularly to the western section on account of the sparse population and the great distances than to the eastern section, which is so highly populated.

Mr. MACDONALD. If we could find some way of getting agreement among the States to accept that, yes; I think that that would be fair.

The interregional system is shown here in relation to the areas in which wartime employment has been expanded. The graph is shown in thousands. So the larger circles represent increased employment to the extent of a million and more. If we have prospective unemployment in the same areas and in the same proportions as we have had increase in employment, this chart shows where the impacts will be felt most severely. But the greatest employment increase has been in the urban or metropolitan areas.

FIGURE 15.-The recommended interregional system in relation to centers at which the war has caused significant increase in employment. (Based upon data supplied by the Department of Labor.)

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, out in the rural sections, that are given over to the various branches of agriculture, there is not likely to be the great burden of unemployment that there will be in the highly populated cities?

Mr. MACDONALD. No, sir. We feel, on the contrary, that there should be every encouragement for the city worker who has come from the country to return there, so that we will have sufficient labor returning to the rural areas.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, the unemployment situation is going to be particularly heavy in the cities, is it not?

Mr. MACDONALD. Oh, yes.

FIGURE 19. The recommended interregional system in relation to industrial sites served by roads improved as access road projects.

The CHAIRMAN. That comports with the suggestion you have made that the highway problem is also now principally an intracity problem. Mr. MACDONALD. Yes, sir. However, there is not full agreement on that fact, Mr. Chairman. I shall touch on that later. But so far as the volume of traffic and the number of people who are using the highways and the amount of congestion are concerned, there is no doubt that that is our No. 1 highway problem.

This chart shows the relation of the proposed interregional system to the industrial sites which have been selected as sufficiently important to the war effort to justify the improvement of access roads to them. That is, these are industrial sites or industries contributing to the war effort where the Army or the Navy or the War Production Board has certified the necessity of access roads, and where we have actually spent access-road funds.

The CHAIRMAN. The adoption of them into city highway systems would in the period following the war give the greatest employment where employment is most needed, would it not?

Mr. MACDONALD. I think that that is pretty well demonstrated, Mr. Chairman, by this graph which shows the locations of these industries to be almost wholly on or within easy reach of the interregional system. The CHAIRMAN. That was the opinion I drew from that chart. Mr. MACDONALD. I may say that these charts will be available to the members of the committee in the interregional report. These are all taken from the interregional report.

The CHAIRMAN. I wonder if they will be included in the hearings now being held before the Committee on Public Roads.

Mr. MACDONALD. I do not know.

The CHAIRMAN. They really ought to be made available generally, I think, to the Members of Congress in some way, because they show very clearly the force of the suggestions you are making.

Mr. MACDONALD. The report is being printed as a congressional document, and it will be ready soon, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I was just thinking that it might be a good idea to reproduce them in these hearings, if the plates are going to be available anyway through the Government Printing Office.

Mr. MACDONALD. They will be.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it would be well to have them reproduced in these hearings.

Mr. MACDONALD. We shall be very glad to insert them.

I have talked of the traffic as it affects cities. This graph indicates the degree to which the city becomes the destination of traffic. That varies somewhat in relation to its size. We find in cities from 500,000 to 1,000,000 that all but about 3 or 4 percent of the traffic approaching the city is going into the city. When we get to cities of 2,500 or less, we find that 50 percent of the traffic is going into the urban area, but about 50 percent wants to bypass it. Between those we have various percentages. But until we get down to cities of 2,500 or less, we find that more than half the people that are traveling on roads approaching the cities are going into the cities.

The CHAIRMAN. The bright lights lure them into the big cities.

Mr. MACDONALD. That is right. By the improvement of these main roads and by the fact that the public desires to go to the cities, we are dumping more and more of this tremendous amount of traffic at the borders of the cities, and we have not done too much about it as yet. That even reflects itself in accidents. This graph shows the location of the traffic accidents in the year 1937 in the city of Houston. The

FIGURE 29.-Graph showing two divisions of the total traffic on roads approaching representative cities of various population groups: (1) The average percentage city bound, and (2) the average percentage which could have bypassed the cities.

information is taken from the report of the Houston traffic survey, conducted by the Works Progress Administration in 1939.. Practically all of the accidents in the city happened at intersections at grade. That is a condition that we shall have to do something about. The recommended answer is the redesigning and replanning of the principal arterial routes in the cities, to eliminate most of the grade intersections. These maps show how it might be done. Of course, these are largely idealized and diagramatic, but they resemble some plans that are already in progress, and they illustrate typical possibilities in dealing with the major highways under three conditions: Bypassing the small trading center, with connecting roads that will permit those who wish to do so to enter the center; then the medium city with an interregional