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As a result of expanded interest, there has been, in the last few years, a rapidly expanding scale of national investment in oceanography. The construction and conversion of 42 ships has been completed or authorized over the period 1960 through 1965. We now have a fleet which constitutes the most advanced set of oceanographic vessels possessed by any country in the world. The very first priority for an expanded program was ships, but that need has largely been met now So that our expenditures for ship construction are currently tapering off. We obligated more than $25 million for oceanographic ship construction in fiscal year 1964, $21 million in fiscal year 1965, and our estimate for fiscal year 1966 is $13 million.

The CHAIRMAN. May I go back, because Senator Cannon and I had another matter. You say we now have a fleet which constitutes the most advanced set of oceanographic vessels possessed by any country in the world?

Dr. HORNIG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not need to do it now, but could you document that a little more for the record, the comparison?

Dr. HORNIG. Yes, sir; I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Dr. HORNIG. Now that we are beginning to have the ships in hand, emphasis is shifting to their best use. For this reason the research and survey expenditures of the Federal agencies have increased steadily over the past few years and are growing. In fiscal year 1964 the research and survey expenditures totaled $86 million. This figure was $99 million in fiscal year 1965, and will rise to approximately $116 million in fiscal year 1966.

Altogether, by the end of fiscal year 1966, we will have spent approximately three-quarters of a billion dollars on oceanography since fiscal year 1960. Of this, approximately $400 million will have been spent in fiscal years 1963 through 1966. That is in the latter half of the period.

To put the $140 million budgeted for oceanography this year in perspective, I might point out that the fiscal year 1966 estimate for water research and surveys amounts to $100 million. We are thus proposing to spend substantially more for oceanography than we are for our internal problems of water supply and water quality. On the other hand, the President's budget for fiscal year 1966 for the atmospheric sciences amounts to $220 million, substantially more than in oceanography. I make these comparisons simply to give the committee a basis for assessing our relative investment in these important

areas.

One of the central problems which was pointed up in the original National Academy of Science report was to expand the numbers and to strengthen the scientific foundation of the research workers in oceanography. Very considerable prograss has been made in this direction, but it is hard to say precisely where we stand because we encounter a very difficult problem of measurement. Oceanography is not a single discipline, but rather an area of activity requiring the talents of people with the most diverse professional backgrounds. As a rough estimate, about 3,000 people are now engaged professionally in oceanography.

The CHAIRMAN. At that point, how many schools, universities, now give a degree in oceanography? Do you know?

Dr. HORNIG. I know of only one that gives an undergraduate degree in oceanography, and that is Washington. Graduate degreesThe CHAIRMAN. Well, I wanted that in the record, of course.

I think the University of Rhode Island has made some moves toward that. Massachusetts, is it? Well, anyway, we will get it for the record.

Dr. HORNIG. We will check it, but the number for graduate degrees is approximately 16.

The CHAIRMAN. Go right ahead.

Dr. HORNIG. Now, the people engaged profesionally in oceanography include physical oceanographers, fishery biologists, engineers, physicists, marine biologists, chemists, and geologists. I am sure there are more. Graduate enrollments in oceanography, as such, have approximately tripled since 1959, but most of the expansion in the number of reseach workers occurs by the entry of people with other training into the field. The development of the field has not been hampered by having too few people available for research or survey work. Nevertheless, competent observers are still concerned whether enough people are available to provide scientific leadership and imaginative innovation. The primary manpower problem in oceanography is one of expanding the number of people capable of exercising imaginative scientific leadership of the highest quality.

In summary, then, the situation at the moment is that we have brought about a very impressive expansion of our physical facilities over the past 5 years. We have expanded the pool of talent available for work in the area and the scientific accomplishments have been impressive.

So far as research is concerned, we must continue to develop not only ships and seaborne instruments, but the set of resources on shore that are required for healthy evaluation of the field. Oceanography, like other sciences, flourishes best in a scientific environment. This means that the strengthening of oceanography as part of the science structure of universities is important, because this association is perhaps the best way to provide the intellectual stimulus, the injection of new ideas, and the scientific criticism that is essential to sound scientific work.

Much also remains to be done in the related areas of surveys. The data that could be collected are infinite. Therefore, rational choices, based either upon a scientific idea or upon a need to test or exploit some immediately practical opportunity, have to be made. One of the most difficult problems of surveying, and one on which a great deal of progress has been made, is to design a total program that provides the maximum return-in terms of science and in terms of immediate exploitation of the resources of the sea-for the investment.

The varied areas of challenge and opportunity in oceanography point up its diversity. Oceanography is not a discipline in the sense that physics, chemistry, or geology is a discipline. It is a broad area of inquiry requiring the skills of many disciplines. It is not a field of activity that is built around a single technology, nor is it a field which is centered upon a homogeneous set of applications. The practical results of research and surveys in oceanography relate to expansion of food resources, extension of our reserves of nonferrous metals,

extension of the period over which we may make reliable long-range weather forecasts, and an extension of our national defense capability. The only unifying element tying oceanography together is the link to the sea, to the sea bottom and what lies below the sea bottom, to the volume of the seas themselves and to the air above the seas.

The magnitude and character of the effort in many of the subdivisions of oceanography are more properly assessed in the context of the purposes they serve, and hence in the context of the missions of an agency, than they are in the general context of oceanography.

Let me be explicit on this point. The Department of the Navy must steadily expand its knowledge of the oceans because it must be prepared to defend this country by operations conducted on, in, and above the seas. This knowledge must be diverse. For example, schools of marine life affect the transmission of sound. The contours of the ocean bottom are related to long-range underwater navigation. All these affect the operations of the Navy.

The Public Health Service is interested in the flow of river water into the ocean because the nature of this flow affects offshore pollution. The Bureau of Commercial Fisheries is interested in the vertical patterns of water movement in the oceans because the phenomenon has an important effect on the distribution of organic material, and hence upon the concentration of fish.

Each of these Federal agencies is not interested in oceanography as such, or for the sake of oceanography itself. They need the varied kinds of information provided by the activities encompassed by oceanography in order to do their jobs. In fact, this link to the missions of the agencies makes the oceanographic program productive and viable. At the same time, different agencies often need the same information, and only one agency then need obtain it. The information collected by a single agency has to be available to all agencies, and to the scientific community. In short, the necessary dispersion of activities also generates a need for coordination.

Retention of the major base for oceanography in the programs of the various agencies is sound and should continue. It would be a mistake in principle to attempt to centralize in a single agency the great bulk of the work which is carried on most effectively and most properly in connection with the missions of the various agencies.

About half of the Federal investment in oceanography is made by the Department of the Navy. The activities of the Navy, which Dr. Morse can describe in great detail if the committee wishes, include the construction of facilities, an ocean survey program, and a diversified research and development program. This broad array of activities is related to the mission of the Navy, but it should be and it is available to the civilian agencies, except for that part which is militarily classified.

Ninety percent of the Nation's oceanographic program is contained within four agencies, the Navy, the National Science Foundation, the Department of the Interior, and the Department of Commerce. A large number of additional agencies have interests in oceanography, but the big four constitute the center of the Federal oceanographic effort. The role of the National Science Foundation is to provide the core of basic science relevant to the oceanographic activities of all agencies and to the field of oceanography itself. It should be pointed

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out, however, that although the National Science Foundation is indispensible to the progress of the basic science related to oceanography, a great deal of basic research is properly and necessarily carried on by each of the major agencies in the course of carrying out their missions. The CHAIRMAN. Do you recall offhand the number, other than the so-called big four, of other agencies involved?

Dr. HORNIG. Dr. Morse says he will give that for the record during his discussion.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Dr. HORNIG. The existence of varied activities divided among a number of agencies and requiring coordination is not unique to oceanography. Whenever a scientific or technological activity with common characteristics is conducted in several Federal agencies we have the problem of coordination. This situation is often encountered because science is simply not organized to fit the structure of the Federal Government. Whenever programs cut across agency lines, a means of coordination must be developed.

At this point I would like to indicate to the committee how the Executive Office of the President is organized to deal with these problems. In the Executive Office of the President there is the Office of Science and Technology. This organization, created by Reorganization Plan No. 2 of 1962, is a small executive agency which reports directly to the President. It is ultimately responsible to the Congress as are other executive agencies. I am the Director of OST, as it is called, and I also serve in a different but related capacity as the special assistant to the President for science and technology. The essential task of OST is to advise and assist the President with problems of science policy and with the coordination of Federal activities in science and technology. The Office has other functions, but these are the essential ones so far as oceanography and other coordinated Federal programs are concerned.

Two important committees provide advice to the President on Federal activities in science and technology. I am currently chairman of both groups, and OST provides the staff for both of them. The first group is the President's Science Advisory Committee, composed of distinguished scientists, experienced in public affairs as well as in scientific matters, drawn from universities, from industry, and from other nongovernmental research institutions. The President is fortunate in having a group of this quality as advisers. The great contribution of this committee is that it can look with an informed, experienced, and detached eye across the full range of Federal scientific and technological programs. For example, I periodically ask the President's Science Advisory Committee to review the Nation's program in oceanography, and the opinions of the members are influential.

The second advisory group is the Federal Council for Science and Technology. This is composed of the policy officials in the executive agencies who are responsible for research and development activities. The Federal Council for Science and Technology provides the central forum for discussion of common problems, technical problems in general, by Federal officials. It is the channel through which views and information are exchanged through which a coordinating structure for Federal programs is established. The primary mechanism for coordination is the establishment of committees of the Federal Council

composed of those agencies with interests in a given subject. There are, for example, committees dealing with atmospheric sciences, high energy physics, and water resources. With respect to oceanography, an Interagency Committee on Oceanography has been established under the Federal Council for Science and Technology.

Dr. Morse will explain the operation of the Interagency Committee on Oceanography in some detail, but I should like to remark briefly on the accomplishments of this organization. It has in my judgment performed well. The committee has served as the agent for accumulation of data relating to the total Federal activities in oceanography. The Interagency Committee provides a mechanism through which each agency can know and does know what the other agency is doing. It has organized and presented data in a way which provides the Executive Office of the President with a comprehensive picture of the Federal activities in oceanography. The committee has drawn together for examination, both by the President and by the Congress, comprehensive reports on Federal activities. It has analyzed areas of advance, the distribution of efforts among agencies, and has pointed to unmet needs.

The advice of the committee is available directly to me as Chairman of FCST and as Director of the Office of Science and Technology. This means that oceanography can be and is presented and discussed as a single Federal program in the Executive Office of the President.

Coordination of oceanographic activities is not easy and the development of budgets for oceanography is particularly complex because oceanographic missions and budgets are placed in a number of agencies which have not only oceanography but other missions to take into account. Any coordinating mechanism for the Executive branch which accepts the existing diversity of missions and the dispersion of oceanography among a number of operating agencies will face precisely the problem which the Interagency Committee on Oceanography faces.

The Secretary of the Navy, the Secretary of Commerce, the Director of the National Science Foundation, and the Secretary of the Interior must divide the resources available to them in accordance with their judgment of relative priorities. Oceanography is in competition within these agencies for other activities of high priority and high urgency. This basic consideration, to repeat, will influence all efforts to develop an oceanographic program within the executive branch.

Turning from the question of administration and the current state of oceanography to the future, questions of priorities and of the scale of effort are paramount. Research and surveys at the moment have high priority. This is why the fiscal year 1966 estimate in the President's budget provided for an expansion of research expenditures by about 15 percent. Similarly, the Government has the basic responsibility for the conduct of oceanographic surveys. These surveys provide the basic store of information essential to the future exploitation of the resources of the ocean.

In the area of engineering and developmental activities, an effort encompassing both governmental and industrial activities is indicated. There are specific tasks facing the Federal agencies which require expansion of their technological capability. The development of deep submergency vehicles is a case in point. But interest in exploration of

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