Dr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I shall make a short statement and will show you a diagram that might be helpful. I have also included in the short statement, Mr. Chairman, a very brief statement of my background which may be of interest to the subcommittee.

ASSIGNMENT BY THE SECRETARY

Secretary Freeman has delegated two responsibilities to the Director of Science and Education, (1) to work directly with four agencies in the Department-the Agricultural Research Service, the Cooperative State Research Service, the Federal Extension Service, and the National Agricultural Library, and, (2) to coordinate the Department's total research and education activities and its relationships with agencies and institutions in similar work outside the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

In carrying out the latter assignment I work with research scientists in the Agricultural Marketing Service, the Economic Research Service, the Statistical Reporting Service, Farmer Cooperative Service, and the Forest Service.

Also, I represent the Department on the Federal Council of Science and Technology and on all matters relating to research and education.

EMPHASIS ON RESEARCH

By setting up the position of Director of Science and Education, the Department has given greater emphasis to its total research program. For the first time in the history of the Department, there is someone in the Secretary's office to speak for the Department's total research and education program. This is in keeping with the longtime interest of the Department in agricultural research and education, and with the confidence which the Congress has placed in the Department's scientists and educators. We hope we can continue to deserve this confidence.

Senator HOLLAND. Dr. Brady, I congratulate you on having this challenging new assignment, and I wish for you the utmost of success in it. Before I move on, I would like to ask, are you, or is Dr. Clarkson, or someone else, going to comment on proposed changes in the research field as communicated to this committee in recent days by the Secretary of Agriculture?

PROPOSED TRANSFER OF MARKETING RESEARCH

Dr. BRADY. I suppose this is in relation to the organization of our research programs?

Senator HOLLAND. Yes. It refers to the proposed transfer to the Agricultural Research Service of certain research heretofore carried on by the Agricultural Marketing Service. Now my understanding is that changes in that field are being accomplished by the Secretary under his very far-reaching authority to accomplish the organization within his Department. I want to make it very clear that I am completely against that far-reaching authority.

I opposed it vigorously when it was proposed, but it does not mean that I am against every use of that authority. I am perfectly willing to hear of any proposed action that is taken under that authority.

If you are the one to now discuss it, or if Dr. Clarkson should disss it, or if we should wait until the Secretary himself appears next

week, I am perfectly willing to accommodate myself in the hearings to the preference of the Department.

Senator Young, would that be agreeable to you?

Senator YOUNG. Yes. I would like to mention that I feel the same way the chairman does about the consolidation. I think the Secretary is going much too far, and that if we have to correct it by changing the appropriations, we should do it.

COORDINATION OF RESEARCH PROGRAMS

Dr. BRADY. I think I could respond to let the committee know what actions the Department has taken. In response to requests from the Congress, that the Agricultural Marketing Research, quality research in the Department was examined by the various agencies responsible for the research work to see whether there could be greater coordination of this work, whether there could be more effective research work done. As you probably know quality research includes research work done by plant breeders, by plant nutrition experts, and so forth, as such other research that is done as a direct aid to the producer of these products.

There is also, of course, research work done on the products after they have been produced by the farmer in keeping them free of insects or other toxic agents that would destroy their quality.

There is research work done in transporting these products from the farm and making them available to the public. Thus when we talk about quality research, we refer to a wide range of activities.

We also have, of course, the strictly economic research that is related to marketing. It is a matter of judgment as to how this marketing research should be organized. At the present time part of this research work is being done in the Agricultural Research Service, that part dealing with the quality aspects that are related to the producer, the kinds of things that he has to do to see that quality products are available for the market.

Also, there is research work done in the Agricultural Marketing Research. This research deals with the products after they leave the farm. It is done to see that the products remain free of blemishes are in marketable condition and to see that the costs of marketing are held at a minimum.

DEPARTMENTAL STUDY OF THE RESEARCH PROGRAM

The economic aspects of this work are done in the Economic Research Service. In an attempt to see what we could do to better coordinate the total research program, a study was made in the Department at the request of the Secretary to determine whether or not it would be advisable to make any changes in the organization of the total marketing research program in the Department. The recommendation has been made to the Secretary that for best coordination and efficiency that it probably would be best to pull all this quality research together into one of the research agencies in the Department.

The Agricultural Research Service is by far the largest research agency in the Department, having nearly 70 percent of the research work. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to pull the part of quality research out of the Agricultural Research Service, pulling it over into the Agricultural Marketing Service. Consequently, a recommendation has been made to the Secretary that all of this research work

be pulled together as an identifiable unit within the Agricultural Research Service. The research would not be dispersed, but would be kept as an identifiable unit.

COORDINATION ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES

We recognize that this is not a matter of black and white. We recognize that very good arguments can be given for keeping the research work associated with the particular agency that it is to serve. We also recognize some disadvantages in terms of coordination, and of seeing to it that we do not have duplication overlapping in our research programs.

We now have entomologists working in both agencies and it is a question of how far one group carries the products before the other group takes it over. But this recommendation has been made to the Secretary and although he has made no final determination, it is my understanding that he is in agreement, with the general recommenda

tion.

REVIEW OF PROPOSED TRANSFER

Senator HOLLAND. The Secretary has so indicated to me, and, I am sure, to other members of our committee. My present request is that no such action be taken until after this committee and similar committees in the other body have a chance to hear and understand exactly what is supposed to be done. Our views need not prevail, because they may not be wise, but our own views are, as I told you yesterday, that in the field of marketing of highly perishable commodities that are so closely allied, the research on keeping qualities and all those things that have to do with getting the products to the processor, the distributor, and then to the consumer in good condition. I see no justification, at the present time, at least, from my own understanding of the situation, for the proposed change in organizational responsibility of the research that has to do with quality, speaking again principally of the highly perishable crops, fruits, and vegetables, and the like. I do not see how that research can be properly separated from the other functions of the marketing service, because you cannot really separate the matter of spoilage, the matter of preparation and packaging, distribution, refrigeration, and all those things that have to do with keeping in good condition those highly perishable commodities.

You cannot separate that from the rest of the marketing activity, because it is in a sense a part of the marketing process. There will not be any marketing if the commodity to be sold does not reach the ultimate consumer level in an attractive, edible, unimpaired, and acceptable condition.

CONSIDERATION OF COMMITTEE VIEWS

Senator Young, who is older on this committee than I am, may have varying views, and whatever his views are they are certainly entitled to a very great consideration because he has studied this question longer than I.

But my experience, which has largely been in the field of fruits and vegetables as you know, leads me to make that statement in the beginning. There may be facts existing, and justification shown, that would overcome my strong feeling in this matter, but I know some

thing of the very long and continuous relationship between those people in both the Federal and State research service in my own State that have to do with questions that I have indicated. I know of their long close association with those who handle the actual marketing of perishable crops of the type that I have mentioned, and I would not like to see that disturbed in any way.

Senator Young, you probably have a very definite conviction of one kind or the other, and I have not had a chance to discuss this with you, but I invite you to make any comment you would desire.

REORGANIZATION VIEWS BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE DEPARTMENT

Senator YOUNG. I think you have expressed my views very well. Some of these reorganizations are desirable. But I just do not believe that the Department should arrive at these reorganizations in a predetermined fashion without first listening to people outside the Department. In case of the changing of grain standards, it appears to me that the Department paid no attention whatever to the many pleas made by the grain trade or anyone else in the business with respect to some possible modification.

I do not know of a single modification of their first proposal. Now this is wrong. The Department of Agriculture should not conduct itself that way.

Senator HOLLAND. The fact of the matter is that the Department of Agriculture is a service agency just as Members of the Senate and House of Representatives are part of a service agency in this kind of field. It is supposed to serve the people who produce and distribute and consume agricultural crops, which supply the food requirements of nearly 200 million people.

As we serve, we certainly should be cognizant and try to find out what are the views of those whom we serve. I am sure you realize that that is primary to this whole field.

I thank you, Senator Young, for your comments, and apparently we think along the same direction.

PROPOSED LIAISON WITH MARKETING AGENCY

Dr. BRADY. May I make one more comment? I am not in disagreement with anything which has been said here, and we certainly do want to do what is right and proper.

Senator HOLLAND. I did not get that. Would you repeat it?

Dr. BRADY. I am in agreement with the fact that we do want to get the views of people concerned with this problem. I do want to make it clear, however, that it is not our intention to reduce or underestimate the importance of marketing research. It is merely our intention to see if we can better coordinate it as part of the total research program. We will expect a representative of the Agricultural Marketing Service to work very closely with the Agricultural Research Service, with this identifiable unit within the Agricultural Research Service just as we have had representatives from the Soil Conservation Service working very closely with the soil scientists in the Agricultural Research Service in being certain that the researchers do serve SCS and, in turn, the people that this agency is concerned with.

We have every intention of doing the best we can to coordinate this work and of seeing to it that marketing research continues to be of

service to the people it is to serve. But we expect to use the same patter we have used in serving the Soil Conservation Service we thought we would try this out.

RESEARCH COORDINATION AFFECTING FORESTBY

One of the problems, I believe, Mr. Holland, you identified for us yesterday, when you asked about the research work going on in one of the research stations in your State. You directed your questions to the Administrator of the Agricultural Research Service, who could not answer some of your questions because the work about which you inquired was done in the Forest Service, a different agency. We are attempting to do all that we can to better coordinate our work. It is our judgment that we can get better coordination by taking this proposed action. We will certainly take into consideration the comments you have made here, and if you have not passed them on to the Secretary, Mr. Chairman, we will be glad to do so.

REALINEMENT

Senator HOLLAND. Do you intend to move the Forest Service research over to your Department, as Director of Science and Education!

Dr. BRADY. No, sir. This has not been considered. I merely used this is an example of the problems which arise when we do have the research done in two different agencies. But in some cases we feel that the association between research and action programs is more closely related within one program than it is in others.

Senator HOLLAND. I am sorry to say, then, I do not understand your organization chart, because this shows the Agricultural Marketing Service research identified in your office in exactly the same way, by exactly the same dotted line organization, that the Forestry Research and other agencies that perform research are associated. What is the difference!

FOREST SERVICE COMPARED WITH AGRICULTURAL MARKETING SERVICE

Dr. BRADY. I think that the Agricultural Marketing Service works with identical products that the Agricultural Research Service works with. This is not the case with the Forest Service. We work with vegetables, we work with grains, so does the Agricultural Marketing Service. We have this commonness of products that we are dealing with, and we have the commonness of the kind of scientists that are working on these products.

Under our current organizational pattern, you may have scientists in the same laboratory, one working for one agency and one working for another. We believe that we can bring about better coordination, as has been suggested by Congress on several occasions, by making the proposed transfer.

Senator HOLLAND. I wish you would look at your oragnization chart. You have it before you, do you not!

Dr. BRADY. Yes.

Senator HOLLAND. I note that you have exactly the same relationship under that chart between your AMS research and your Forest Service research.

Dr. BRADY. At the present time, that is correct.

(The chart referred to follows:)