The CHAIRMAN. I understand from Mr. Graves that the Forest Service makes no charge for the surveys made as a basis of listing. Senator CRAWFORD. For listing, but the settler can not utilize them and is required now to make a still additional survey. This is to insert a provision by which this expense will be borne in this way and the first survey utilized by the surveyor, and it will remove from these people what is a serious burden to such a class of people.

Now perhaps the Senator understands that more clearly.

Senator WARREN. Of course, it is not entirely clear but it is clear enough to see what the intent is.

Senator CRAWFORD. I do not desire to take up your valuable time, but you will find that they have gone into it quite extensively. Í think they have covered this point that is in your mind.

Senator WARREN. I agree perfectly with your intentions to afford relief to those who wish to settle on agricultural lands in the forest

reserves.

Senator CRAWFORD. They go into it more fully than I can. I do not think I would be of any assistance in trying to elaborate upon it. Senator WARREN. You, of course, catch the idea that I gave you. It provides that the surveyor general shall deputize in order to make the land legal to the man as well as all parties; it must be a deputy regularly deputized.

Senator CHAMBERLAIN. I think the purpose of that amendment is, that as soon as these lands are listed they shall be so surveyed that when the list is turned over to the Secretary of the Interior they will be ready for entry without further survey.

Senator WARREN. The survey shall be made by some one attached to the surveyor general's office of the State. So his connection with it will be established and there will be no further survey.

The CHAIRMAN. The amendment reads "under the direction of the United States Surveyor General."

Senator CRAWFORD. Yes.

Senator WARREN. In this letter that you have read there is some proviso to be added to this.

Senator CRAWFORD. Yes.

Senator WARREN. And you are satisfied to take their substitution? Senator CRAWFORD. The department's, yes. I understand fully that their object is the same as mine, to relieve the settler and make it fit into their system.

There being no further questions, Senator Crawford was thereupon excused.

STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES CURTIS, A SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF KANSAS.

DEMONSTRATION PLANS, CIMARRON RIVER, KANS.

Senator CURTIS. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I desire to call your attention to Calendar No. 52, being an amendment proposed by me as follows:

That the Secretary of Agriculture be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to construct one or more demonstration plants on or near the west line of the State of Kansas, on or near the Cimarron River, for the purpose of testing the economy of irrigation by the reservoir system, with ditches leading from said reservoir to subirrigation tile conduits.

The Acting Secretary of Agriculture, in response to the inquiry sent out by your clerk, in a letter dated March 6, 1912, states as follows:

In reply to your inquiry of February 27, I will state that the Office of Experiment Stations of this department, through its division of irrigation investigations, contemplates the testing of subirrigation conduits near Garden City, Kans, in the near future. I refer to the substation of the Kansas Agricultural Experiment Station, where this department is cooperating in carrying on irrigation and dry-farming investigations. Inasmuch as equipment and men are stationed at this point, there will be a decided advantage in having such work done at this substation.

In regard to reservoirs in western Kansas, our agent in charge of irrigation investigations in that State has been instructed to investigate that subject during the forthcoming season.

The

Now, gentlemen, the answer of the department is hardly fair and does not cover the point that I desire to bring to your attention. Where we desire this demonstration is in one of the four railroadless counties of the State. It is in the extreme southwest corner. conditions are such in that section that they are unable to produce any crops unless they get water. The Cimarron River has an exceedingly large flow in the early spring and in the seasons of rain and of melting snow. In the summer time it is exceedingly dry and is dried out at the very time they need the water in a semiarid country to produce their crops. The people there are all homesteaders, or nearly all of them. They have not had a good crop in that section for four years. They have done everything on earth they could to develop the underflow and to find out what they had. Last year in this county, at the county seat town, at the expense of citizens alone by contributions or combinations of several of them who could afford to put them in, they had two wells and found artesian water at a depth of about 590 to 600 feet. That is right alongside of this river where we want this demonstration, and it cost several thousand dollars to put in one of those wells. These people are unable to do it.

They believe that by testing the reservoir system, by damming this river or fixing it so the flood waters could be stored, that they can irrigate several hundred thousand acres of land in that section, and that is what I want tested.

In the appropriation made for this purpose-I think the chairman, probably, of the Committee on Appropriations will bear me out in the statement about 82 per cent of that money has been used west of the State of Kansas. We need it just as badly in the western part of the State as they need it in any other State.

Senator WARREN. West and north?

Senator CURTIS. West and north; yes. They have not used the money in Kansas, no part of it, save at Garden City.

Senator WARREN. That has not been thoroughly successful, has it? Senator CURTIS. There are two plants there. The irrigation plant has not been successful, and the people are not using it, and the Water Users' Association want to be relieved from their contract. That is because the Government built or put in wells to use the underflow, and that is what I want to read in a minute to show that the comparison with Garden City was not fair to these people of southwestern Kansas. They put in their wells and attempted to carry their water 10 or 15 miles in earthen ditches, and it seeps away, and there is absolutely no benefit coming to them for a year or two, except right around the

wells. Those farmers right around the wells were accommodated. If cement ditches had been provided and the water could be carried without seepage, it would be a success, but it has not been successful, and last year the farmers did not use the Government plant at all. It is now locked up.

They have an experiment station using the underflow at Garden City. I was on it last fall, and I think it is going to be a very successful plan, because they have demonstrated that they have the underflow, and at Garden City they can get the underflow at from 20 to 70 feet, and the flow is sufficient to irrigate any reasonable farm; they have plenty of water. Wells are already in on this experiment station, and they are experimenting wholly from the underflow.

Now, what we want in this southwest corner, which is probably 150 miles from Garden City-100 miles at least is a test of the reservoir plan. It is the county adjoining the Colorado line and it is where they come down from the mountains, and there are plenty of places where the storage plan could be tried.

Now, my suggestion is if the committee does not feel that they can authorize this plan being put in with the information it has, that you make a provision directing the Secretary to study in that section the advisability and report upon the advisability or feasibility of trying to secure water for irrigation purposes by the reservoir plan in that southwest corner of the State, and report to the next Congress.

The CHAIRMAN. It seems to me, Senator, that we should have more information upon the subject.

Senator WARREN. What you mean to provide is that the Secretary is hereby authorized and directed to investigate and report? Senator CURTIS. Yes; at the next session of Congress.

Senator WARREN. "State of Kansas, on or near the Cimarron River." Do you not want to make that plainer, that it is really a submerged reservoir, that you want to dig down?

Senator CURTIS. No; we want to build for the storage proposition. You can not dig down to it in that section. That is why I say it is not fair to put the Garden City in this matter because they have got an underflow where you could get it by the submerged plan. You have to do it by the storage plan.

Senator WARREN. How would it do to ask Senator Curtis, unless he has already done so, to change that according to his idea.

Senator CURTIS. I have not done so. I simply made up my mind after reading this bill.

Senator WARREN. I do not think with this language we could base any favorable action upon it.

Šenator CURTIS. I think it would be better with the language of the chairman.

Senator CHAMBERLAIN. Is the Agricultural Department the proper department to investigate with a view of constructing an irrigation project or a reservoir service there?

Senator CURTIS. They say they are doing it for that purpose, and they are the parties who have charge. That is why I had it referred to this committee. The Reclamation Service of the Interior Department handles an entirely different kind of work, but this department is under the jurisdiction of the Agricultural Department and therefore I had this amendment referred here. They are testing out the reservoir plan. I think with little investigation they could make a

satisfactory report, or rather a report that would satisfy the committee whether or not this was a feasible proposition, because, as I am informed, they have tried the same plan 30 or 40 or 50 miles from this place, either in Colorado or Oklahoma, I do not know which, but anyway near this country it has been tried out. Now, if so, they could go there and study the conditions and report to the committee. The CHAIRMAN. By whom?

Senator CURTIS. As I understand, by the Agricultural Department. But the Garden City situation is not similar to that in Morton County. The CHAIRMAN. Senator, perhaps it might be well for you to give a little attention to the reforming of this amendment. Senator CURTIS. Yes; I will revamp that.

Senator CHAMBERLAIN. So as to get a report from the Secretary. Senator CURTIS. I would like to do it by next December. They can do it very easily, and while we are very anxious to have this put in, I do not ask the committee to act until they have sufficient information upon the subject.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would modify this amendment to cover just what you desire.

Senator CURTIS. I will do so, Mr. Chairman. I will get a copy of the amendment and bring it down to you a little later.

Senator Curtis was thereupon excused.

STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM E. BORAH, A SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IDAHO.

EXPERIMENT STATION NEAR JEROME, IDAHO.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator, your amendment is our Calendar No. 55. We are ready to hear you upon it.

Senator BORAH. Mr. Chairman, I must say that the information which I have with regard to this matter is information which has been furnished me by people in whose judgment, of course, I have great confidence, and that is this, that so far as the particular station is concerned, it has been chosen by reason of the fact that it is supposed to be, from the standpoint of altitude and longitude and soil, etc., the best fitted for testing and experimenting with reference to the disease of the potato.

I had nothing to do myself with selecting this particular place, neither did very many people who were connected immediately with the State; but it has been selected by those who have made considerable investigation with reference to that matter.

Now, as to the necessity for it, I can only say this, that I am informed by the railroad and by shippers that they lost about 60 per cent of their tonnage last year by reason of the disease of the potatoes in this great potato-producing country.

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary of Agriculture, in closing his letter of March 11, says:

Should additional funds thus be added, however, in my opinion, for the same expenditure of money, larger benefits would result from the addition of an equal amount to each of the clauses indicated above than from a provision for the establishment of a specific station, which would necessarily involve the erection of buildings and the making of other improvements, as well as the expense of equipment, superintendence, etc.

Senator BORAH. In answer to that, with all due respect to the Secretary, in my opinion if it is not put in a separate item, and for a separate purpose, it will be lost sight of. Of course I give this as my opinion not only my own but of those who are greatly interested in the matter. They feel that if it is not designated and specified for the use which is to be made of it that it will not be as effectual as if it were. I will leave that to the judgment of the committee, however. I feel very earnestly that way. I have had consultations with some of them in the last 24 hours with regard to it, and one party in particular who has been an unselfish investigator in this matter for years said that he thinks it is very necessary that the item be made as provided for in the amendment, separate and specific.

The CHAIRMAN. Stating the location.

Senator BORAH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. We will give attention to that matter.

Senator BORAH. I thank you very much. I will be satisfied with whatever the committee does.

Senator CHAMBERLAIN. Will we have to put up buildings there? Senator BORAH. Yes; not expensive buildings. I think to some extent, yes.

Senator CHAMBERLAIN. Ten thousand dollars would not put up much of a building.

Senator BORAH. No, it would not be expected to. The point about it is that if this is begun it will be the beginning of a great work upon the part of the department in regard to this matter, because there can be no question but what the potato industry is being literally destroyed in the irrigated country. The best potato-producing country in the world is now being visited by these different diseases and insects which are literally destroying it.

Senator WARREN. How near is your university or institution which expends the money allowed the State for agriculture, and what have you got in the way of experiment stations already there? Senator BORAH. I could not advise you as to that. In that particular locality?

Senator WARREN. In the State.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, your State experiment station.
Senator WARREN. Is it connected with your university?

Senator BORAH. Yes; it is connected with the State University.
Senator WARREN. It is not a separate agricultural college?
Senator BORAH. No; it is connected with the State University.
Senator PAGE. How far is that from this potato section?

Senator BORAH. About 200 miles; it is in a different region of the country, in a rainfall country where potatoes are not affected.

Senator WARREN. Do they not have experiment stations at different points?

Senator BORAH. Yes; but I do not know where they are located, but they are not in the vicinity of this, because this is a country that has just been opened up.

Mr. Chairman, will you hear, for a few moments, Mr. Grubb on this subject?

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.