timers whose experience with Indians has not given them any reason to love the Redman, and should they attempt any of their thieving the Sioux Nation will mourn the death of some of its braves.

We have several other photostatic extracts from the papers of that time. One of them is from the Pierre Capital, which says:

M. H. Day is becoming a real live Indian hunter. Twice he has been reported dead, but each time has turned up alive. At last reports he was again on his way from Rapid City to Spring Creek with 20 trusty followers. He and his followers are determined that the settlers shall be protected from the marauding bands of hostile Sioux. If the Government would act with Day's promptness and decision, all fear of Indian depredations would have been over years ago. Day is acting under the orders of Governor Mellette. The selection is a good one.

Of course, it is very evident that we could not go back and construct by conspiracy these newspapers of 50 years ago to have them publish these items to show that such a telegram was actually given by the Governor and that a company was formed to protect the settlers from the Indians.

Further than that we have a statement in the Senate Journal of the State Legislature of South Dakota of a senate concurrent resolution which was adopted in January 1929 urging recognition by Congress of these troops. It quotes from Governor Mellette's message to the legislature of 1891 as follows:

The executive takes pleasure in thus publicly recognizing the valuable and unselfish service of Col. M. H. Day and Col. V. T. McGillycuddy, in the Black Hills district where all the active demonstrations of the Messiah war occurred. Colonel Day organized a troop of 100 volunteers who for some weeks patroled the Cheyenne River, opposite the hostile camp, between Battle Creek and Spring Creek and kept back marauding parties in their raids upon the deserted property of the settlers. At Phiney's ranch the command had three lively engagements in 1 day with the Indians, and finally succeeded in their total defeat. So that, it is our contention that there was actual service rendered by this company and that these few remaining veterans deserve some consideration.

To the best of our knowledge there are only about six or seven surviving veterans at the present time. I would be glad to answer any questions the members of the committee may care to ask. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions?

Mr. SCHAFER. Yes, Mr. Chairman; I would like to ask a few questions. From the information contained in the papers from which you read excerpts, it would appear that this bill should be introduced in your State legislature. Now, have you any information or any records indicating that this service was rendered at the request of or with approval of the Federal Government?

Mr. CASE. As I understand the Act of 1927, service by members of State companies in zones of Indian hostilities is recognized and directly pensionable by the Federal Government. If I may, I would like to have the committee ask General Hines if it is not the custom of the Federal Government to recognize these companies that were created by order of the State governor as veterans of these Indian wars who were compensated?

General HINES. Some of them were, but as you know, Congressman, there are requirements under the law which must be met. I might read those into the record at this time so that the committee will have a clear understanding of them. Mr. Schafer has referred to them.

Section 3, act of March 3, 1927: "The period of service performed by beneficiaries under this act shall be determined, first, by reports from the records of the War Department, where there are such records; second, by reports from the records of the General Accounting Office showing payment by the United States, where there is no record of regular enlistment, or muster into the United States military service; and third, when there is no record of service or payment for same in the War Department or the General Accounting Office by satisfactory evidence from muster rolls on file in the several State or Territorial archives; fourth, where no record of service has been made in the War Department or General Accounting Office and there is no muster roll or pay roll on file in the several States or Territorial archives showing service of the applicant, or where the same has been destroyed by fire or otherwise lost, or where there are muster rolls or pay rolls on file in the several State or Territorial archives but the applicant's name does not appear thereon, the applicant may make proof of service by furnishing evidence satisfactory to the Commissioner of Pensions (now the Administrator of Veterans' Affairs): Provided, That the want of a certificate of discharge shall not deprive any applicant of the benefits of this act."

As I understand it, Congressman, in the case of this organization, apparently the War Department has no records from the Adjutant General's Office, and has no record of them being in the service for the purpose of putting down an Indian uprising. We have probably gone over what you have presented to the committee and have the difficulty of holding that service to be service in the putting down of Indian uprisings.

Mr. SCHAFER. Just on that point: Do I understand that if you had records from the State indicating actual service in an Indian war you could pay a pension under the regulations?

General HINES. Yes; provided the War Department would indicate to us that there was a general uprising there, an Indian uprising. Mr. SCHAFER. All right.

General HINES. Now, that is the basic law which you read.

Mr. SCHAFER. I think you have that evidence, because the Governor of the State provided them with guns and ammunition to put down an Indian uprising.

Mr. CASE. This bill was introduced following a conference with officials in the Veterans' Administration. That is, I would not say that they proposed the bill, but we took the matter up with them to find out what could be done, whether this did not come under the last part of what you stated there or just read, and they said, well, they felt sympathetic about it, and if the bill were referred to them the people in the Department would feel like making a favorable report, because there was as much service or more service than in many other cases. However, they felt prohibited by the fact we were not able to produce an official muster roll from the State records. It was our contention that these telegraphic instructions from the Governor at the time to the colonel to create a company constituted a sufficient record of authority. The identity of the members of the outfit is the problem we sought to meet in the wording of this bill. General HINES. May I ask a question there, Mr. Case, which will probably clear up the point?

Without a muster roll how are we going to determine who did serve in this company?

Mr. SCHAFER. And how long they served?

General HINES. Yes, assuming that this company was called out in an actual Indian uprising, and apparently down there they must

have reached a conclusion they were, because they told us it was meritorious, but how are we going to make sure that we have the right individuals without a muster roll to identify who they were?

Mr. CASE. Yes; we concluded we could not find an official State roll. This Spring Creek company is a matter of common knowledge throughout the territory. So, we propose in here in the absence of record service

"That in the absence of a record of service or of payment for same in the War Department or Treasury Department, and where no State muster rolls or files have been made showing such service, the applicant may make proof of service by the affidavits of two witnesses who served with him or had personal knowledge of his service.

That is the closest we could get to it.

General HINES. Would that be sufficient to show that this was actually a State organization and that they were paid for this service by the State?

Mr. CASE. We could support that by the article from the Senate Journal quoting from the Governor's message to the legislature and the articles which appeared in the newspapers at that time. Of course, we could not have put that in the newspapers 50 years ago for the purpose of proving our point.

Mr. SCHAFER. Have you checked the records in the State Department to determine whether they have any record of the service of these men?

Mr. CASE. Yes, we have, and we have gone through the historical records, and they tell us some of the records were lost through the years. It was in the first year of statehood, and this was out in Indian country, in the Black Hills.

As to the question you raised as to the knowledge of the War Department of an engagement, Mr. Schafer is on the Committee on Indian Affairs, and he will recall the Wounded Knee bill. This was part of the Wounded Knee episode. This was a company created to protect the settlers along these streams in the Black Hills from visits by the Indians who were engaged in that Messiah uprising, that finally wound up in the so-called Wounded Knee massacre in this very winter. There is no question about an Indian uprising. This Colonel McGillycuddy was either at this time or during some part of this winter superintendent of the Pine Ridge Agency, which is located about 40 miles from the mouth of these

streams.

The extent of the zone of Indian hostility is well-established and the Veterans' Administration is already paying pensions for those who were directly associated with the United States Army troops.

General HINES. I think the main difficulty, Congressman, is undoubtedly due to the fact that the identity of the individuals making up the company is not known, because there seems to be ample authority in existing law for pension if we had some records from the State to indicate that they were actually called out for this Indian campaign and served and that they were paid by proper authority but, apparently, we lack some evidence to show who the individuals were.

Mr. SCHAFER. Unless we have additional information I would like to make the suggestion that we close the hearing on this bill. It would be my suggestion that the proper way would be to introduce a special

act bill and present the evidence so that we would have something to work on since there are only six or seven of these veterans now living.

The CHAIRMAN. Would it not be better to have Mr. Case put in all of the evidence that he has here on that. If you have no objection leave this material that you have for the record so that we may make it a part of the record.

Mr. CASE. I would be glad to, or I could prepare a memorandum on what you want.

Mr. SCHAFER. I ask unanimous consent that the memorandum may go into the record.

Mr. CASE. We have ample correspondence from these veterans and about half a dozen others.

H. R. 7899

The CHAIRMAN. Do you wish to say anything on H. R. 7899 which was introduced by you, Mr. Thomason?

STATEMENT OF HON. EWING THOMASON, MEMBER OF CONGRESS, SIXTEENTH DISTRICT, TEXAS

Mr. THOMASON. Mr. Chairman, frankly I did not know that you were going to have a hearing on this bill this morning, and I am not prepared to present all of the data. In fact, I expected Congressman Kleberg to be here. He is much more familiar with the facts than I am. I do not have all of the records on the matter. I only have some letters here. Congressman Kleberg could tell you more about it than I can.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you care at this point to put all of the records you have into the record?

Mr. THOMASON. Yes; I should be glad to do that unless you could give me a brief hearing at your next meeting.

General HINES. We have not prepared a report on this bill, and I would suggest that we be given an opportunity to look up the record of these two companies, and then at that time the Congressmen may appear, and we will have our report ready.

Mr. THOMASON. Yes; and at that time Mr. Kleberg and I would like to be heard if you could give us a few minutes. We would like to have a report from General Hines, also.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you testify in regard to this particular bill tomorrow?

Mr. THOMASON. I do not know whether you will have General Hines' report at that time.

General HINES. I do not believe so.

Mr. THOMASON. There is no hurry.

Mr. SCHAFER. I ask unanimous consent that a meeting be called by this committee to hear Mr. Kleberg and Mr. Thomason on this bill after a report has been received from the Veteran's Administration.

General HINES. I would like to have that myself because there is some historical data that I do not believe is easily available to the Veterans' Administration.

The CHAIRMAN. Then we will call a meeting later when these re

ports are completed.

Mr. SCHAFER. If that is satisfactory to the distinguished Congressman from Texas.

Mr. THOMASON. Yes, that is quite satisfactory.

The CHAIRMAN. Then H. R. 7899 and H. R. 8030 will go over temporarily until we get further reports.

Now, gentlemen we still have twenty minutes left. Do you want to hear some witnesses while we are here today.

Mr. HAMILTON. I would like to be heard, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state your name?

Mr. HAMILTON. C. R. Hamilton.

STATEMENT OF C. R. HAMILTON, GENERAL ADNA R. CHAFFEE CAMP NO. 1, INDIAN WAR VETERANS, INC., UNITED STATES SOLDIERS HOME, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. SCHAFER. Whom do you represent, what organization? Mr. HAMILTON. We have an organization of national Indian War Veterans, called Indian War Veterans, Inc.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Hamilton, make your statement. Mr. HAMILTON. Mr. Chairman, and Honorable Members of the Pension Committee, pension bill H. R. 3996 was introduced for the purpose of helping those men who served west of the Mississippi River on and before 1898, men who were not included in the Leatherwood bill and who were not in the zone of combat or actual hostilities. Many of them are men who served in the Regular Army before 1898 and they draw no pension whatever, and they have no income.

There are about 80 men in the United States Soldiers' Home who served before 1898, and about 40 of them draw no pension. The other 40 draw from $6 to $30 a month pension. I only know of 5 who draw the $30, as you have to be discharged from the Army with a surgeon's certificate of total disability.

The last battle of note was at Wounded Knee in 1890, just 50 years ago. If a man was 21 at that time he must be 71 years old today, and most of them were much older at that time. These men served for $13 a month, and out of that 1212 cents was deducted for the upkeep of the United States Soldiers' Home, which is really a blessing to them. They are too old to work, and quite a number of them are confined in the hospital permanently with no income whatever. They are compelled to stay at the Home and have no money with which to buy comforts and they have no place to go.

Troops were ordered to go to the scene of the uprising at Fort D. A. Russell and Fort Wingate. All of these troops arrived too late to take part in the battle, as it was all over on their arrival. But every man living today draws an Indian war pension of from $55 to $72 a month. What about the men who stayed in the forts under orders of their superiors? They draw an Indian war pension of but $6 to $30, with a few at $30 and some not at all.

Mr. SCHAFER. Some of them were closer to the actual fighting than some of the fellows who get pensions?

Mr. HAMILTON. Yes; they were; but this $6 to $30 is all they can get because they come under that old law.