Mr. McANDREW. He was president of the Civil Service Commission of Oakland, a city of 225,000. He held that position I do not know how long, but up until his appointment with the Federal board, and I think he still retained it a little while afterwards. He was succeeded by a Mr. Faneuf. In his organization of this work over there, which was previous to my discharge or return from France, they started immediately to establish this training station out at Davis, and they had it arranged there until a man could be discharged in one day-the same day that he would go to Davis he could go to the Federal board if he wanted to. In the majority of cases they wanted to go to their homes, as I did, but the others could have gone up there, every man who was discharged with a vocational handicap could have gone up to Davis.

Mr. REED. So far as you know, he used the same personal follow-up with all the men?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir. He came there personally and made talks collectively and individually. Any time you went into the district office you could go in and interview Mr. Fisher. We had one fellow who used to go there and talk to Mr. Fisher four or five times a week. I do not know what he would say to him.

Mr. REED. And probably it was better than medicine?
Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir.

Mr. REED. In other words, he was the type of inspiration for the boys to come in contact with?

Mr. McANDREW. That is it, absolutely. Mr. Crow, the gentleman whom I met at Camp Kearney, was in contact with me about three or four weeks before I was discharged-that is, three or four weeks before I received a copy of the discharge. I received a copy of monograph No. 1 over in France before I left. I had heard of the vocational board in France. It was suggested by some of the men who were interested in the welfare work over there. It was testified before the committee that they did not hear about it in France. I heard about it all over in France.

Mr. REED. What has become of this man Fisher?

Mr. McANDREW. The position that Mr. Fisher now holds is field organizer for the vocational board. He visits all of these various offices around. I talked with him a little while one day when he came into the hearing. I talked to him after the hearing. He had just returned from New York and he reported that everything was running along smoothly over there.

Mr. REED. Are the boys provided with room and board and recreation at the institution out there?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir; but you have to pay for it.

Mr. REED. Can you give us some idea about what you pay for your board and room out there?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir. I never could get board for less than $45 a month.

Mr. REED. Forty-five dollars a month?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir; and for a room I paid $15 a month, and some had to pay even more than that. I received a letter this morning, which I should like to read to the committee, from the Federal Board out there, which shows that they have made some arrangements out there, and it shows that they are on the job.

FEDERAL BOARD FOR VOCATIONAL EDUCATION,
San Francisco, Calif., May 3, 1920.

Mr. JOSEPH BLAINE MCANDREW,

2240 Telegraph Avenue., Berkeley, Calif.

DEAR SIR: The Associated Federal Students at University of California have arranged to occupy a house at 2333 College Avenue, Berkeley, Calif., during the intersession. This house will be ready for occupancy by May 5. Beginning with the summer session, they hope to have arrangements made for occupancy of permanent quarters on Durant Avenue.

At the present time, the rates for the house at 2333 College Avenue will probably be $40 per month, room and board.

Will you please see Prof. Langille, or Mr. Whiteside, who is the student manager, if you are interested?

Yours, very truly,

That is not signed with a rubber stamp.

NICHOLAS RICCIARDI, District Vocational Officer.

Mr. REED. You said something about getting a certificate when you left the school out there?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir.

Mr. REED. Do you not think that it would be a great advantage to every man if he could have a certificate from the school showing the work that he had covered-the character of work that he had performed in the school while there?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir; it would.

Mr. REED. Is it not a disadvantage for a man to have to go out and sell himself to some employer without that certificate?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir; I think so.

Mr. REED. Do you not recommend that the board try to make some arrangement with the educational institutions to have them give a certificate?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir; I would heartily recommend that.

Mr. REED. The conduct of the man, the character of his work, and what he had accomplished-what training he had had?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir.

Mr. REED. While you were in France, you had no opportunity, I suppose, to see the schools they were conducting for the crippled soldiers over there?

Mr. McANDREW. No, sir. I was a member of the school which they had established at Camp Kearney. I stayed there for several weeks previous to my discharge. Under the Regular Army School system they had down there, I can certainly recommend that as very good. That was open to everyone.

Mr. REED. Have you any specific recommendation to make with reference to methods to be used or a campaign to reach the boys that have been approved?

Mr. McANDREW. I have not gone into that very deeply. I can see the necessity. I could within a couple of days work out and prepare a program which I think would be successful. I was not sure that I would be able to testify before the committee, and so I did not work out any such plan of procedure.

Mr. REED. Did you ever have this mentioned by your friend, Mr. Fisher?

Mr. McANDREW. No, sir. I talked that over with Mr. Fisher. I broached the subject to Mr. Fisher. He considered it a very good idea. Mr. REED. You say that he is an organizer?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir.

Mr. REED. I wondered if he had developed some plan?

Mr. McANDREW. If he has, he never expressed it. I took that up with him and told him the kind of work, because my heart and soul are in this work of rehabilitation, and I know Mr. Fisher and these men, and I wanted to be able to do that. To show that it is not personal and that there are lots of men feeling the same way about it, feeling that they are under obligations to the Government and are really appreciative of the Government's efforts in their behalf, I will read you the preamble of the constitution of Associated Federal Students of the University of California:

In order to maintain firmly established in the hearts and minds of all men in training under the Federal board at the University of California that spirit of cooperation and mutual helpfulness which was so apparent during our period of service, and to more effectively cooperate with both the Federal board and counselor, and in an effort to lighten the burden of our disabled comrades, who will need such assistance as we are able to offer them, in establishing themselves at the university; with this purpose in view, and spurred by a firm determination to prove worthy of the opportunity given us, we do hereby incorporate ourselves in this organization.

That shows you just how they feel in regard to this, and it shows what we have accomplished there and what we would like to do nationally-just what we have done in California.

Mr. REED. Has sufficient time elapsed since entering the training for any of them to receive placement?

Mr. McANDREW. To receive placement?

Mr. REED. Placement in positions.

Mr. McANDREW. Mr. Brune, one of the men on here, and Mr. Fisher were just discussing that. Bushnell, Huggard, Montgomery, and Hull-all of those are at the University of California, with the exception of Mr. Brune, who has a position which I will explain a little later. Mr. Hull is now at the University of Southern California, transferred for his health. Mr. Brune was fortunate in being the first man who was selected by the Federal board for training. Right in the beginning he was disabled.

Mr. REED. What was the character of his disability?

Mr. McANDREW. Sir?

Mr. REED. What was the character of his disability; how was he injured?

Mr. McANDREW. How injured?

Mr. REED. Yes, sir.

Mr. McANDREW. He was injured in some accident. He was in the Navy. He was not wounded.

Mr. REED. What was the character of the injury, that is, how much disabled?

Mr. McANDREW. About 50 per cent. Mr. Brune took a course in commercial law and a number of other things-he made a success in everything, he took the course between his training and he landed a position as assistant insurance officer of California. I do not know how much that pays, but Mr. Fisher said it was an awfully good position. I met him several times since then, but I do not know what he is receiving.

Mr. REED. You do not know what he received before he went into the service?

Mr. McANDREW. He commanded a good salary. I guess he is drawing about the same now as he did then, perhaps a little more. Mr. REED. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Robsion wants to ask you a few questions. Mr. McANDREW. Very well.

Mr. ROPSION. If the suggestion should be adopted to select an exservice man on the board, should it be an officer or a private?

Mr. McANDREW. Well, sir, I do not know. I am in favor of selecting the best fitted man personally.

Mr. ROBSION. But to get back to the feeling-▬

Mr. McANDREW (interposing). I have no feeling.

Mr. ROBSION. The lack of confidence of the disabled soldier?

Mr. McANDREW. As I said, with all the other qualifications, he should be a disabled man.

Mr. ROBSION. I am not doubting that, but I am asking you whether he should be an officer or an enlisted man?

Mr. McANDREW. I think he should be an enlisted man, because 95 per cent of the disabled soldiers are enlisted men.

Mr. ROBSION. And there is more or less feeling?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir. They review a commission four times, possibly some of them, and we have to make allowances. The less you discuss it and the less that is said about it, the better. It would cheer those men up immensely if they had some enlisted man selected for that position and I approve it. I have lots of friends; all of the officers that I served under are friends of mine.

Mr. ROBSION. And to reach the disabled boys?

Mr. McANDREW. That is the most necessary thing. In a district which is similar to yours, I imagine in East Tennsessee, the situation there I placed several of those boys on the road to receive this training and showed them how to go about it, to appeal to AtlantaMr. ROBSION (interposing). What position is it you want or are seeking with the board?

Mr. McANDREW. I have been recommended by the superintendent of cases for the position of vocational adviser or assistant training officer.

Mr. ROBSION. You came to Washington to testify in behalf of the board or to look after that position?

Mr. McANDREW. I came in behalf of these disabled men. All that I say in regard to the position is incidental, sir. All that I came for is to stand up for these disabled men—the men in training now and the men who should and will receive training.

Mr. ROBSION. Did not you think that the Vocational Board was standing up for the disabled men?

Mr. McANDREW. Yes, sir; to the very best of their knowledge, belief, and ability. I should say that there were other things needed. Mr. ROBSION. You felt that they needed instruction?

Mr. McANDREW. I feel that every man needs suggestions, at any rate, whether he needs instruction or not. I should like to distinguish between them.

Mr. ROBSION. You feel that the board has done the best that it knew how ?

Mr. McANDREW. You bet I do; yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF MR. J. J. GREER, PHILADELPHIA, PA.

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Please give your present address.

Mr. GREER. 5222 Chester Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa.

The CHAIRMAN. You are identified with the rehabilitation works? Mr. GREER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In what district?

Mr. GREER. District No. 3.

The CHAIRMAN. Where located?

Mr. GREER. In Philadelphia.

The CHAIRMAN. In Philadelphia?

Mr. GREER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been in that position?
Mr. GREER. Since October.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please state the exact position that you hold?

Mr. GREER. My civil-service status is training officer, holding the position as assistant district vocational officer at district No. 3, Philadelphia, Pa.

The CHAIRMAN. What would that mean-that you hold two positions?

Mr. GREER. No, sir; one position with the board, with the civilservice status of training officer.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by civil-service status? Mr. GREER. The civil service has examinations for men for positions under the Federal board of training officers, training assistant, placement officer, assistant placement officer, and vocational adviser. The CHAIRMAN. Are you employed by anyone except the board! The CHAIRMAN. The civil-service status which you mentioned is not identified with the Civil Service Commission here?

Mr. GREER. Oh, no.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you tell the committee what is the character of your work there?

Mr. GREER. According to the rules and regulations, my duties are chiefly to see that the office functions according to the directions of the D. V. O., received through central office, and such other duties as he calls upon me to perform.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is your immediate superior?

Mr. GREER. Robert J. Fuller, the district vocational officer.

The CHAIRMAN. And his superior would be here at Washington!
Mr. GREER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been with the board?
Mr. GREER. Since October, 1919.

The CHAIRMAN. What had you been doing before that?

Mr. GREER. I was the educational secretary for the National Catholic War Council.

The CHAIRMAN. How long had you been in that work?

Mr. GREER. About 18 months.

The CHAIRMAN. And what were you doing before that?

Mr. GREER. I was the director of the Catholic school business of Allyn & Baker, publishers, in New York City.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the character of the Allyn & Baker work; is that field work?