by it; but it is going to take time. It can not come all at once. It takes long years.

There is no negro question in our section. We have no trouble at all. They are my friends. I have heard a friend of mine in New York say, "Why, I hate them worse than you do." I say, "I don't hate the negro at all. You don't understand this matter." There is

just a little fine vein between hate and social equality, you know, about a number 60 thread, you know. [Laughter.]

I like the negro. A negro barber shaves me; a negro cook cooks for me; a negro coachman drives my carriage; a negress nurses my child. I wouldn't have a white servant. It embarrasses me to see men in full dress, like they have them at the New Willard, coming around and asking me what I want, and holding out their hands for 50 cents. Why, they are better dressed than I am, you know. [Laughter.] We are doing fine in our country. It is growing. Our town has doubled in the last ten years. The whole country is growing. A MEMBER. You have not made much dividends, have you? Mr. CALLOWAY. We are making more than you think we are. The Southerners bought cotton early this year. They were on the inside. The raw material that we have for our two mills that we operate advanced between October 6 and January 31 to an amount more than our entire capital stock for both mills. We bought while it was low, you see.

Mr. CALDWELL. I judge that you are not only opposed to this bill, but are opposed to all labor legislation.

Mr. CALLOWAY. I am opposed to all labor legislation; yes. I think the natural law will bring the thing around right. You can not legislate prosperity. Why, I know folks who if you put them in a gold mine would lose out; put them in a room with $500, and lock the door and the windows, and they would only have $250 when you open the door a minute later. You can not legislate prosperity for that kind of people. I have seen two men right across the street from each other, doing the same business, and one would make money and the other would not. Don't think that you can legislate prosperity for everybody. If a man has not got natural ability and business ability, he is not going to succeed as well as a man who has ability.

Mr. CONNER. While you are philosophizing, will you be good enough to tell us how the Government would be a loser if this bill became a law?

Mr. CALLOWAY. The Government would have to pay more for its cotton duck that they buy from us. It is made principally by us and the cotton-duck trust. We are holding them down on the price now, but if this goes into effect we would not be able to do it, and there would be only one bidder instead of two. If a man runs eight hours a day, he can not do work as cheaply as he can at eleven hours a day. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What percentage of your output goes to the Government?

Mr. CALLOWAY. It varies, according to the Government's needs and according to our success in securing the contract. Sometimes it is 25 per cent, sometimes 50 per cent, and sometimes none. The Government will not buy our goods simply to keep our mill going, you understand. It will only buy when it gets ready and when we are the lowest bidder. So it varies, you understand.

Mr. CONNER. Is there any labor agitation in the South?
Mr. CALLOWAY. There is none in our town.

Mr. CONNER. Are you familiar with the labor conditions?

Mr. CALLOWAY. Yes; they had a little agitation down in Augusta about three years ago. Some labor union folks from Fall River came over to put their ideas into operation in one of the mills; I think it was the King mill. They all walked out on a strike, and the Fall River people sent them all $2 a day to do it. Now, I am not positive about this, but this is the way I heard it. As an old lady used to say: "Mrs. Jarboe told me that Mr. Jarboe told her that Bill Martin told him." [Laughter.]

When the one mill shut down the employees in the other mills sent in their contributions to support them. Then the Augusta combination of mills shut down, so that one mill hand could not work in any of the other mills. Then the Fall River people sent money to support them; but they soon had to send forty times that amount of money to support them, because all the other mills shut down. The money quit coming in, and then they came back and said, "We would like to arbitrate. When they came to arbitrate they found the operatives in the King mill were getting more than they demanded and were the best-paid labor in that section. They all went back on the old scale, and in that case the union did not succeed. The game was called on account of darkness or rain or something-money refunded at the gate. (Laughter.)

That is the only labor trouble we have had there, and that turned out all right. We have no trouble at all. There is not a union man within 50 miles of our place. There may be some United States Union men, but I mean labor union men.

Mr. GORDON. I may be able to throw some light on the question about labor agitation. The only unions we have are in the large cities. Mr. CALLOWAY. Yes; like Augusta, and Macon, and Atlanta, and those cities.

Mr. GORDON. And they draw their sinews of war from above the Mason and Dixon line.

Mr. CALLOWAY. They could live on that all right, but they got tired of sending the money when all forty or fifty broke down on them at

once.

Mr. GOMPERS. Inasmuch as this information that you have given the committee is based upon one having told another that some one else said a certain thing, is it not likely that the conclusion that would be drawn from that statement-that some one told others and they told you?

Mr. CALLOWAY. Not as to any of the other information except that. Mr. GOMPERS. No; I mean the conclusion about the money being contributed by Fall River.

Mr. CALLOWAY. I prefaced my remarks by saying that I did not know it to be true.

Mr. GOMPERS. You also add that qualification with very great emphasis.

Mr. CALLOWAY. I could not do otherwise, because I was not connected with it.

Mr. GORDON. It was common report in the newspapers. There can be no question of doubt about that.

Mr. CALLOWAY. I think that is so. Mr. Hearst is a newspaper man, and he can vouch for the newspapers. [Laughter.]

Mr. HEARST. We try to have a correct account of happenings. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I would suggest that there are those present who are in favor of the bill, and we are occupying their time. Mr. CALLOWAY. If there are any other questions I will be glad to do the best I can; if not, I have finished.

Mr. HUGHES. I would suggest that hereafter you do not put your remarks in writing.

Mr. CALLOWAY. Why?

Mr. HUGHES. I think you do very well without it.

Mr. CALLOWAY. I am unfortunate in this respect. I never did go to school as much as two years in all my life. I am not used to talking on my feet. I was afraid I might get the rattles, you know, and not be able to say what I wanted to say.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I would like to find out from the members of the committee how much longer they desire to sit.

Mr. GOMPERS. Mr. Chairman, Mr. O'Connell, on whom I relied to be here this morning to address the committee on our bill, is not in town, and from what I can learn he will not be here until to-morrow morning. So far as I am concerned, I am not prepared to go on this morning. I returned from my Porto Rican trip late last evening, and I would like to look over that which has been submitted on the part of the opposition before I say anything on the subject at all. Mr. GOEBEL. When would you like to go on?

Mr. GOMPERS. I would like to know what arrangements have been made thus far. Different parties seem to have different opinions

about it.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. My understanding is that we are to have hearings every day until Thursday. Is that right?

Mr. MADDOX. Including Friday.

Mr. GOMPERS. And how is the time apportioned?

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. We still have Thursday and Friday, Mr. Gompers, and if you need more time undoubtedly the committee would be willing to grant it.

Mr. GOMPERS. How is the time apportioned?

Mr. MADDOX. I think there were to be alternate days for each sideto-day for the proponents of the bill and to-morrow for those who are against it; but as the gentlemen from Georgia have taken the time belonging to the proponents of the bill, I suppose it is understood that they would be entitled to as much time to-morrow as was taken of their time to-day.

Mr. GOMPERS. The opponents of the bill will have to-morrow, I understand?

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has been explaining what the arrangement was about alternating days. We gave permission to those who opposed the bill this morning to proceed, and they started in because no one was here who favored the bill. Having started in, they have used up the entire session, with Mr. Gompers's consent, given somewhat late during the session. I do not know what the arrangements are of the people who will be here to-morrow on the understanding that that is their day. I suppose the committee is willing to extend the time, if necessary.

Mr. GOMPERS. I understand Mr. Hayden desires to be heard for a moment.

Mr. HAYDEN. I was simply going to suggest that the notice we received said that the arrangement for this week was that on the 23d and 25th the proponents would be heard, and on the 22d and 24th the opponents to the bill would be heard, with the 26th left for argument, and that possibly it would run over if it could not be completed on that day. As part of this day has been taken up by the cotton manufacturers, of course it is only fair to yield that much of to-morrow, except that I do not know what arrangements have been made by the gentlemen who expect to be here to-morrow. There are a number of

them on the Senate side to-day, and I think they expect to come here to-morrow.

Mr. CONNER. Do you prefer to have Friday, Mr. Gompers?

Mr. GOMPERS. I prefer to have the last day. Any day will suit us, but we prefer the last day.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. We will have to wait and see to-morrow what arrangements we can make. I suppose if these people come before the committee from a distance we will have to hear them.

Mr. FOSTER. I think the friends of the measure ought to be entitled to close.

Mr. MADDOX. I think it is understood that Saturday is to be devoted to those who desire to argue both against and for the bill.

Mr. CONNER. The people who have been before the committee to-day said they could not be here to-morrow, so they were permitted to go on to-day, and I asked Mr. Gompers if he preferred to take Friday.

Mr. HAYDEN. I want to say to the committee, in regard to Saturday, that the chairman of the committee at the first session asked Mr. McCammon if he would not take up the language of the bill and give his interpretation of it from a practical standpoint as well as from a legal standpoint. I simply want to give notice that he expects to be heard on that.

Mr. CALDWELL. With that understanding I move, for a purpose that I will state afterwards, that the committee go into executive session.

The committee thereupon went into executive session, after which it adjourned until to-morrow, March 24, 1904, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.

WASHINGTON, D. C., March 24, 1904. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. John J. Gardner in the chair.

The CHAIRMAN. The Manufacturers and Employers' Association of Trenton, N. J., as an association files a protest this morning against the eight-hour bill, signed by Richard C. Oliphant as president and Hugh Williamson Kelly as secretary.

Certain manufacturers, merchants, and employers of Trenton, who are mostly, I presume, the individuals who are covered in the protest of the organization, also sign a protest against the bill.

Those papers are filed by Mr. Kelly, the secretary of the association. The papers referred to are as follows:

MANUFACTURERS AND EMPLOYERS' ASSOCIATION, TRENTON, N. J.

To the Honorable the members of the Committee on Labor of the House of Representatives of the United States.

GENTLEMEN: The members of the Manufacturers and Employers' Association of the city of Trenton, numbering more than 100 individuals, and employing between 6,000 and 7,000 workmen, desire to enter a most strenuous protest against any favorable consideration of the pending eight-hour bill (H. R. No. 4064). The adoption of the measure by the National Congress would seriously interfere with practically all the industries of New Jersey. As your committee well knows, at least the New Jersey members undoubtedly understand, Trenton is the principal pottery center of America. The kilns in these potteries are at present operated under a system by which one man alone is held responsible for their satisfactory firing. This man has absolute and undisputed authority in the management of the kiln from the moment the fire is started until it is drawn, from forty-eight to seventy-two hours afterward. It is, of course, not necessary that he be in constant attendance all this period, but he is constantly on watch for sixteen to eighteen hours of the time. This confining duty comes in the completion of the process, and to divide the hours between two workmen is impossible. The men themselves are absolutely opposed to any division or distribution of responsibility, and the good men would never willingly consent to any movement tending to hamper them in the slightest in this respect.

The satisfactory operation of our other local industries where similar firing is necessary, such as in the malleable iron works and foundries requiring in some instances a week's process in the preparation of material, would likewise be prohibited. Numerous other objections of like character might be cited. In connection with the iron industry, however, in which Trenton shares very largely, your cominittee was recently most ably enlightened by Mr. 1. W. Jenks, general manager of the American Steel Hoop Company's Mills at Mingo, Warren, Girard, Greenville, and Youngstown, and Mr. A. R. Hunt, the general superintendent of the Homestead Steel Works. It can not be denied that these emplo ers, practical and experienced men, who have spent a lifetime in the iron and steel business produced the most effective evidence of the injurious, impractical, non-American and anarchistic features of the bill before you and a reference to their testimony will more fully explain the views and sentiments of the Manufacturers and Employers' Association of Trenton.

We are unalterably opposed to the eight-hour bill. We most anxiously request that the foregoing objections be carefully weighed and that the committee accept this opposition in the serious, decided, and unequivocal manner in which it is intended. Possibly our objections may be best summed up in the following resolutions, unanimously adopted at the recent convention of the Citizens' Industrial Association at Indianapolis.

Resolved, That the eight-hour bill pending before Congress is invasive of the rights of the laboring man of this country because it prohibits the employment of any workman more than eight hours in any one calendar day, however much he may desire to work longer and however necessary it may be for him to do so.

Resolved, That the bill is also destructive of the manufacturing interests of this country.

Resolved, That it is socialistic in its character and purpose, and socialism and anarchism must not be allowed any foothold in this country.

Resolved, That this convention is opposed to the passage of any such bill.

All of which the Manufacturers and Employers' Association, of Trenton, N. J., most respectfully submits, and, in so doing, seeks the cooperation and support of every patriotic member of the National House of Representatives.

Thanking you, gentlemen, for your courteous, and, we trust, deliberate consideration of the foregoing, we are,

Very respectfully, yours,

MANUFACTURERS AND EMPLOYERS' ASSOCIATION,
RICHARD C. OLIPHANT, President,
HUGH WILLIAMSON KELLY, Secretary.

To the Honorable the members of the Committee on Labor of the House of Representatives of the United States.

GENTLEMEN: We, the undersigned manufacturers, merchants, employers, and others engaged in legitimate and lawful pursuits in which labor of all kinds is necessary, most respectfully protest against the provisions and ultimate purposes of the dending Congressional measure (H. R. No. 4064) known as the "eight-hour bill."