Mr. RAKER. We do not all the time; we have sworn many of

them.

The CHAIRMAN. I have no doubt you have; but it is not customary in considering legislation and securing information from witnesses concerning legislation, to administer the oath. I have no objection to it; but it is rather unusual. I do not know of any reason for it. These gentlemen are all reputable citizens and no charges of any kind are being investigated.

Mr. RAKER. Mr. Chairman, I am not questioning that at all. That is not involved. They are all supposed to be reputable citizens. We assume that always.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Some of the best people in the world are "reputable citizens," but when they go into court and testify they have to be sworn.

Mr. RAKER. Certainly.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any remarks on the motion? What do you think about it, Judge Winter?

Mr. WINTER. I have no objection to it.

Mr. SWING. I think none of our witnesses will object to it. Mr. RICHARDS. Will the chairman state what he found out about the rules? I believe at the last hearing the chairman was to investigate that.

The CHAIRMAN. I inquired into the matter as to whether or not the chairman had authority, without instruction from the House to swear witnesses; and I found under an old law, passed in 1789, that he had such authority, but it is a very unusual proceeding. I have talked with some of the older members of Congress, and they say it is most unusual, and many of them did not even know that there was such a law authorizing it, except under direct instructions from the House, after resolutions had been introduced and adopted.

Gentlemen, you have heard the motion.

Mr. HUDSPETH. What is the motion, Mr. Chairman, I have just come in?

The CHAIRMAN. That witnesses appearing before this committee first have the oath administered to them to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Mr. HUDSPETH. Is that not an innovation here?

The CHAIRMAN. I should say it is an innovation.

Mr. HUDSPETH. Well, I am going to vote against it. I do not think it has ever been proposed before.

The CHAIRMAN. It was suggested in the committee at the last meeting.

Mr. HUDSPETH. Well, I have been sick, and have not been here. The CHAIRMAN. I think there is no reason for doing so.

Mr. RAKER. Here is the reason, Mr. Hudspeth: It was charged by one of the Members of the House, when we last met, that the power influences were trying to control this committee-parties on the outside and otherwise.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. And delaying the reporting of this bill out. Mr. SWING. I think, Judge Raker, that there was no statement that I heard impugning this committee.

Mr. HUDSPETH. A statement made by a witness here?

Mr. SWING. No; I heard no such statement.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. That particular statement has not been made; but before we get through with these hearings, I think it will develop. Mr. HUDSPETH. Well, I would really like to know what it was. I have been sick in bed; and it is not chargeable to any negligence on my part that I do not know about it.

Mr. RAKER. Mr. Hudspeth, what objection can there be to witnesses who appear here to testify being put under oath?

Mr. HUDSPETH. Well, I do not see any special objection, Judge Raker, except that we never have enforced that rule before. Mr. RAKER. Well, conditions alter cases.

Mr. HUDSPETH. Well, there might be such a condition as would justify it; I do not know. Of course, I am willing to defer to the judgment of this committee.

Mr. RAKER. No; we want your judgment with our own.

Mr. HUDSPETH. Well, I say my judgment at first blush was that it was not necessary; but there may be something that transpired here that I do not know anything about that would justify the witnesses being placed under oath.

The CHAIRMAN. We will now vote on the motion.

(A viva voce vote was taken.)

The CHAIRMAN. The motion is carried.

Mr. RAKER. Now, Mr. Chairman, there are not all the members of the committee here; but I shall, before we get through to-day, move that it is the sense of the committee that the chairman present a resolution giving it authority to subpoena witnesses and take their testimony, so that we may have full powers.

I leave that pending; so that the chairman, acting for the committee, may put that before us.

The CHAIRMAN. Why do you not introduce a resolution? You are willing to assume the responsibility.

Mr. RAKER. I shall assume the responsibility, and will introduce it: if the committee requests the chairman to do it and he does not do it, then I shall do it; but I want to be courteous about it.

Mr. HAYDEN. I think that matter had better be discussed when we get to it. It is my own judgment that if we find that we can not get the witnesses that we want, we shall subpoena them; but if they will come on invitation it is very much better to bring them here in that way.

Mr. RAKER. That is a good temporary suggestion; but I askMr. HAYDEN (interposing). Because I think we ought to have a specific reason to present to the House before asking for such authority.

The CHAIRMAN. You have to have that, or you will not get anywhere in the House if you do not have it.

Mr. RAKER. I ask at this time, pending that, that the chairman request the attendance before the committee of Mr. Harry Chandler, of Los Angeles; Mr. Henry Stetson, representing one other interest; the representative of the J. B. Girand Co., also a representative of the Southern Sierras Power Co.; also a representative of the California-Nevada Power Co.: and somebody (as stated day before yesterday by Mr. Swing) that represents the American interests in Mexico alleged to be opposing this legislation, for any

purpose that they may have, as appears from the testimony already taken; to the end that the committee may have a full and fair hearing on the question in all its relations, of constructing a dam in Boulder Canyon; and that we may know in advance what objections they have, if any, to the construction of this great project. Now, that is the request to the chairman, and he can take it under advisement.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Just a moment. I want to propose an addition to that, if Judge Raker is willing.

Mr. RAKER. Certainly; I will be more than willing.

Mr. HAYDEN. It would seem to me that it should be the privilege of any member of the committee to ask for the attendance of any witness that he presumes can throw light on this question; it is not necessary to make a motion for action by the committee.

Mr. RAKER. Well, this is not a motion; it is just a request to the chairman.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. I misunderstood you; I thought it was a motion.

The CHAIRMAN. It is simply a suggestion.

Mr. RAKER. It is more than a suggestion. It is a request from a member of the committee.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. I would like to suggest, as an addition to that, that, at his convenience, Senator Henry F. Ashurst be asked to appear before the committee. I also take it for granted that Colonel Fly will not absent himself from the city until after the hearings

are over.

Mr. RAKER. I take it for granted, Mr. Chairman, that as he is here in Washington at any time, the opportunity will be given of having Mr. Merrill, the executive secretary of the Federal Power Commission, appear before the committee, so that we may have before the committee the names of all private concerns that have filed applications on the Colorado River for the purpose of diverting water and serving the power interests, and that have urged those pending the consideration of this project and against the Government's opportunity to construct this reservoir.

Mr. SWING. Mr. Chairman, I am not speaking as a witness at this time; but I am willing to be sworn.

Mr. RAKER. We do not have to swear Members of the House. Mr. SWING. I simply want to introduce the witness who will testify this morning, Mr. William Mulholland, who is an engineer of national reputation. He is the chief engineer of the water department of the city of Los Angeles, and has been since 1886, when the city was only a 30,000 population town-I might call it.

His study of the problem of supplying domestic water in the city of Los Angeles resulted in his decision that they must get a more adequate supply than was available in southern California proper. So his vision led him to plan going over three mountain ranges, to the Owens River Valley, and bringing the water a disstance of 240 miles to the city of Los Angeles; in which construction was involved some 50 miles of tunnel, and in addition to that, a number of siphons, the chief of which is known as "Jawbone siphon," where the lift is some 680 feet, and where 4,000 tons of steel was used in constructing a diversion down into the bed of Jawbone

Canyon and up the other side, the pressure at the bottom being about 400 pounds to the square inch.

This tremendous engineering undertaking for a city having a population at that time of 125,000, called attention to Mr. Mulholland's ability and work; because he constructed this aqueduct within the time limit and within the estimate. Its total cost was $24,500,000.

In addition to that, he has designed many other dams, 24 or 25 of sizable dimensions, and is considered one of the leading hydraulic engineers in America.

I take pleasure in introducing Mr. William Mulholland of Los Angeles.

TESTIMONY OF MR. WILLIAM MULHOLLAND, CHIEF ENGINEER OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES, CALIF.

(The witness was sworn by the chairman.)

Mr. MULHOLLAND. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, this project that is claiming your attention here is one of very considerable interest to me, and has only lately become so in a very intensive sort of way. Heretofore my interest has been largely due to its relation to the preservation of the safety of the Imperial Valley. I have had a long experience with the Colorado River. I have heard its navigability discussed here at the last meeting, at which I was present.

I am a very old navigator of the river. I was up and down that river in 1877, when the old steamboats, the Mohave and the Cocopaw, and sailed that river in those days under Captains Mellon and Heymus; and am familiar with the river to its mouth. I went down to its mouth at that time, and sailed up as far as Hardyville two or three times in 1877.

Mr. RAKER. IS Hardyville marked on that map on the wall?
Mr. PANTER. No.

Mr. GARBER. The river never has been navigable for commercial purposes, however, has it?

Mr. MULHOLLAND. No, sir; it was navigable with extreme difficulty at all times; and is still in the same condition. I was on the river, going up and down the river, in the last three or four months. In fact, for the last two or three years, I have been out there frequently, going to Boulder Canyon several times; to Lees Ferry once; and Black Canyon-the most recent site of a dam under discussion here. I sailed down the river two or three months ago in a skiff, and of course learned nothing new on that trip, because I was perfectly familiar with the nature of the river and its peculiar idiosyncrasies, if you may so call them, and the habits of the river have been a familiar subject to me.

I was interested, as I said, in the prosperity of the settlements around in the Imperial Valley, and also around Blythe; and for that reason, and because I have had some connection with the river, I have kept myself imformed as to what was happening, and as to the desires of the people and their needs.

92265-24-PT 1——7

Mr. RAKER. May I interrupt you just a moment? Where is the highest point that you navigated on the river? Will you have somebody point it out on the map on the wall?

Mr. MULHOLLAND. I have found ringbolts in the rocks in the Boulder Canyon; and I was told by old residents that those ringbolts were put in for the purpose of bringing steamers up to a salt well that exists in Boulder Canyon basin. I know where the salt well is; in fact, I found two or three other salt wells there that were not before known. But there was one prominent one there, from which salt was obtained. I do not know whether any was obtained on a commercial scale or not; but I was told that steamers had gone up as far as the Virgin River. There are ringbolts in the Boulder Canyon, in the gorge where it is proposed to build the dam, that are very old.

Mr. GARBER. Will somebody point out in the map just where that is?

Mr. PANTER. This is the Virgin River [indicating on map].

Mr. MULHOLLAND. That is it. And these ringbolts that I speak of are above Fort Callville; and Fort Callville is a little below where Boulder Canyon is to flood, and near the bend of the river.

Mr. RAKER. How recently has this navigation taken place on the river?

Mr. MULHOLLAND. I do not believe there have been any ringbolts above Billy Williams Falls in recent years; there may have been. Mr. Bush, who operates the ferry at Parker, told me about two months ago, that during the war he transported-he owns a ferryboat there of considerable size-transported some ores from a place 20 or 30 miles above Parker. That was within the last four or five years.

Mr. RAKER. How recently has the river been navigable, or has there been any navigation on it at all, from Yuma down to the Gulf of California?

Mr. MULHOLLAND. No, sir. I have been informed that steamers used to run around from San Francisco. The old steamer Newport, Captain Hansen, sailed around there at monthly intervals, into the mouth of the river; and I have been told by an engineer down thereI have been down there on some exploration work for railroad purposes; and was told by a man named Stocker that that harbor has totally disappeared. The nature of the ground there is so unstable— so wind-driven and current-driven, and there have been so many changes in the river that the lagoon where that harbor existed at that time was totally filled up and covered with jungle.

Mr. RAKER. How recent has been the last navigation from the Gulf to Yuma?

Mr. MULHOLLAND. I think about 1882.

Mr. HAYDEN. My information is that the river transportation ceased as soon as the transcontinental railroad was completed; there was no necessity for river transportation after that.

Mr. MULHOLLAND. The railroad, by the way, was finished in 1877, to Yuma. I rode on the first passenger train from Yuma to Los Angeles. That was in December, 1877.

Now, I have been familiar with the very erratic character of the current in that river, and with the changes that occur around its