ing in that legislation our intention to use all the stored water, thereby giving notice to Mexico that when the time came we would use it and if they made any attempt to place the water on new land in Mexico they would do so in the face of that warning given in advance by this Government?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. I think that would be a wise provision, serving notice on them.

Mr. SWING. May I say that section 1 of the bill before this committee authorized the Secretary of the Interior to ascertain what lands are practicable of irrigation in Arizona, Nevada, and California. and if he can find a proposition to repay the Government the money expended, he is authorized to reclaim it?

Mr. HAYDEN. But we are faced with this situation: Taking the total quantity of water allocated to the lower Colorado River Basin, according to the compact, you can not find enough land now to utilize that water, according to the report of Mr. Weymouth. The water will be stored in the Boulder Canyon reservoir, the river will be regulated and the water will flow day by day down stream into Mexico. Nothing is said in the bill and no protest of any kind is entered to prevent the Mexican land owners from taking that water and utilizing it, obtaining it without cost.

Mr. SWING. I think every one in this room will agree-I think I can say every one-will agree that every drop of water that could possibly be obtained in the United States should be used in the United States and that all investigations should be prosecuted by the Government and by the States individually and jointly to ascertain where land is located that can be utilized in connection with that water.

Mr. HAYDEN. How much money has been spent by the Reclamation Service up to date in making the investigations on the Colorado River?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Since the Kinkaid Act was passed we have spent about $375,000.

Mr. HAYDEN. From the Federal Treasury?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. No; not from the Federal Treasury. The United States has appropriated $220,000 in that period.

Mr. HAYDEN. And the remainder came from where?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. From the Imperial Valley, $100,000; from Palo Verde, $5,000; from the Coachella Valley, $6,000; from the city of Pasadena, $5,000; from the city of Los Angeles, $55,000.

Mr. SWING. Was not there $5,000 from Arizona?

Mr. HAYDEN. I understood there was a contribution of $5,000 from my State.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. That was prior to that.

Mr. SWING. Yes: that is right.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. But there was more money than this spent in the earlier days in investigations in the Colorado River Basin. I do not recall how much.

Mr. HAYDEN. Of course, you have had the benefit of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars, spent by the Geological Survey in studying the flow of streams and in their investigations of the various power sites.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, sir.

Mr. HAYDEN. I do not doubt but that the information available has cost more than half a million dollars.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Well, the Reclamation Service paid for most of the data we got from the Geological Survey, but the Reclamation Service itself spent several hundred thousand dollars previous to this period, in this basin, investigating the sites in the upper valley.

Mr. HAYDEN. As far as I can ascertain, the only possibility of finding an equivalent area of land in the United States to replace the area that might be irrigated in Mexico is in Arizona, because the California possibilities have been practically exhausted. You know how much land may be cultivated in the Palo Verde Valley, in Imperial Valley, and in the Coachella Valley. You have reached the limit and you have not found enough land in California up to date to utilize all the stored water, therefore the only place to find it is in Arizona. Why not spend a little more money and find out if some way can not be worked out to use all the water in the United States and not let any of it go into Mexico?

Mr. SWING. You have no objection to spending the money if Congress and the State of Arizona provide it?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. We would be very glad to.

Mr. HAYDEN. It so happens that the appropriations heretofore made have not been expended in Arizona. The study has not been made. Of course, if the scheme is wholly and utterly impracticable the sooner we find it out the better, but so long as there is a considerable number of citizens in my State who do not know, they are inclined to give their State the benefit of the doubt, and very properly so. I am convinced that it is my duty and the duty of every other citizen of the State of Arizona not to leave it to guess work, nor to say that it is just somebody's dream or vision and brush it aside, but actually ascertain the facts. Until that is done you are not going to satisfy the public sentiment in my State.

Mr. SWING. As long as George Maxwell is there stirring up trouble, no matter how much money is spent, there will be a considerable number of people who are not satisfied.

Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Maxwell, nevertheless, rendered a great service to his country in years gone by in pointing out the possibilities of irrigation and reclamation in the arid West.

Mr. SWING. With the limitation specified, "in years gone by," I will agree to that.

Mr. HAYDEN. It is well to recognize that the world needs dreamers and men who see visions, because that helps us to get a grasp of the entire situation. If a practical engineering investigation demonstrates that it can not be done, then we in Arizona will be satisfied. We are not satisfied now in view of the fact that here is a great water supply that will pass out of the boundary of the United States and go into Mexico with no restriction on it.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Mr. Chairman, who is to set that standard for Mr. Maxwell or any other citizen in the State of Arizona, or the standard of conduct for people in the upper basin States?

The CHAIRMAN. Speaking of Mr. Maxwell

Mr. LEATHERWOOD (interposing). We ought not to be deprived of our rights and our views.

The CHAIRMAN. Thirty-five years ago George H. Maxwell was one of the pioneers in getting the National Reclamation Law, and while

his scheme may not be feasible, he has certainly rendered the country, and the Western States especially, a great service.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. There are several people in the upper basin, at least, who have given considerable study to it and have been pioneers in irrigation, whose views do not coincide.

Mr. RAKER. Of course, we are all commending George. I do not know what he has been doing in the last seven or eight years, but 25 or 30 years ago he did do great service in the West, and I understand from Mr. Weymouth's statement, and Mr. Hayden has corroborated it, that the water will be stored and will be there and they will have this time during the building of the dam to appropriate some of their money in Arizona for the Reclamation Service, in addition to some from the Government, to make these investigations, so that it will be all provided for. I hope that Mr. Hayden will see that the Reclamation Service gets about $50,000 from the next legislature of the State of Arizona to meet the Federal Government in that work.

Mr. HAYDEN. What have you available for that now?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. This year we have $100,000. Next year we will only have $25,000. Besides this year we have $100,000 for general investigations in the West as a whole; this year we have none. We had $100,000 in the reclamation fund this fiscal year for miscellaneous investigations, and this year we have only $50,000. So that our funds for investigation this year are very limited.

Mr. HAYDEN. I feel very keenly that the State of Arizona has more than an ordinary claim upon any funds that might be available for such studies and in my judgment you would make progress by utilizing that money for investigations in that State.

Mr. SWING. How much reclamation money has been spent in Arizona proportionate to the receipts from the sale of public lands? Mr. HAYDEN. About $3,000,000 has been received from the sale of public lands in Arizona. The $20.000.000 expended in Arizona is the best investment that has been made out of the reclamation fund.

Mr. RAKER. Of course, while you are on this subject, I wish you would think a little bit about northern California where we have appropriated most of this money that has gone into this development apon the public lands, but we are on a particular subject now and I do not suppose our request will be considered at this time.

Now, Mr. Weymouth, would or would not the construction of the Boulder Canyon dam be an advantage as to future development up stream from the Boulder Canyon by reason of the available power for such future construction?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, it would.

Mr. RAKER. Decidedly so, would it not?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, sir.

Mr. RAKER. Now, from your observations, personal examination and your investigations from all sources relative to the water supply of the Colorado River both to the upper basin and the lower basin, taking it all together, what is your opinion as to the fact that if the Boulder Canyon dam is constructed would be sufficient water to fill it and to give it full use and at the same time allow at least seven one-half million acre-feet to go to the upper basin, and at the

same time have a sufficient available water at the Boulder Canyon dam as thus constructed, when constructed, as well as in the future? Mr. LEATHERWOOD. If we were trying a case I would object to that as a hypothetical question because it does not include all the elements.

Mr. RAKER. In other words, allowing seven one-half million acrefeet to the upper basin, to whatever uses they wanted to put it, at all times, and then the construction of the dam at Boulder Canyon, is it your view that there would be enough water coming down the river to utilize to its full extent the Boulder Canyon dam?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, sir.

Mr. RAKER. Well, that answers it.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Mr. Weymouth, if it might be the law, though that without the ratification of the Colorado River compact, that rights might be initiated along the lower basin adverse to the rights of the States in the upper basin, that I take it, is a matter that ought to be given serious consideration by Congress before proceeding to construct this gigantic dam.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. I do not feel competent to discuss a legal question of that kind.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Pardon me. I was not asking you to discuss it. I say, assuming that that might be true as a legal proposition, then it would be a matter for Congress to give serious consideration to before proceeding to construct this dam?

Mr. RAKER. I am not putting in an objection, but if you were trying a case that would be immaterial and not pertinent, would you not think? In other words, it would be wholly immaterial as to the assumption of the facts; it would do no good in the trial of the case. Well, I will withdraw the objection.

Mr. SWING. Well, all legislation that goes before Congress ought to receive serious consideration.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. I was about to say I think this whole subject ought to be very seriously considered by Congress before it does anything about it.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. But of course this brings up the question that in all problems there are theories and practical facts. Of course, there are no gentlemen here who would repeat what I say, but it is a well known fact that this legislative body does not consider very carefully some legislation.

Now, one other question, Mr. Weymouth. If I understand your complete statement here this morning, it is this, that you are not here making any recommendation to this committee as an agency of the Congress, as to when this work should be begun, but you are simply giving us your best judgment from an engineering standpoint as to the practicability of structures at the places you have described? Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, sir; and to show the needs I have also shown the needs of the valley for water supply and flood protection. Mr. SWING. You are giving us the physical facts?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, I am giving you the physical facts. That is the thought I have had in mind all the while in making up this

report.

Mr. SWING. Now, for the record, Mr. Weymouth, these gentlemen here all know you and your record, but will you state for the record how long you have been in the Reclamation Service?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Since 1902.

Mr. SWING. And that was in the beginning?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Yes, sir.

Mr. SWING. What successive positions have you held?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. I caine into the Reclamation Service as an assistant engineer. In 1904 I was given the position of project engineer of the Lower Yellowstone project in Montana. In 1908 I was made. supervising engineer of the Idaho district. In 1916 I was made Chief of Construction of the Reclamation Service when that title was in vogue, the duties of that position was practically the same as for the position of Chief Engineer. In 1916 I was made Chief Engineer which position I have since held.

Mr. SWING. What principal works constructed by the Reclamation Service have you had to do with?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. I had charge of the construction of the Lower Yellowstone project in Montana. When I went to Idaho the Boise project had been started. I completed the construction of that project. The Arrowrock dam on that project was investigated, designed, and constructed under my supervision. The Minidoka project had been started when I went to Idaho, but I completed its construction, including the power and pumping plants. The Jackson Lake dam was designed and constructed under my supervision. Since being chief of construction and chief engineer, we have at all times been building dams and projects.

Mr. SWING. Is there any agency in the world that you know of that has created, constructed, more irrigation dams than the United States Reclamation Service?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. I am not sure about that. There have been a great many dams built in India by the Indian engineers, the English engineers in India.

Mr. SWING. You think they may be a close competitor?

are.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. They may be, I am not sure. I presume they

Mr. SWING. Now, how long have you had the Colorado River under your observation and study?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Since 1916.

Mr. SWING. In the making of this report you have had the benefit of what engineering data that had previously been accumulated? Mr. WEYMOUTH. All the data that had been gathered by the Geological Survey in the way of maps and stream flow. The Reclamation Service has been gathering data since 1902 in the Colorado River basin. We have also had use of much data gathered by the States, railroads, and other agencies.

Mr. SWING. The Geological Survey has been collecting it over how long a period of time?

Mr. WEYMOUTH. Really, I do not know, but a great many years before 1902 they were mapping that area more or less.

Mr. SWING. What engineers regularly on your staff have collaborated with you in the preparation of your report? I say collaborated. I do not mean merely the preparation of the report in the final form as we have it here but in getting the data.

Mr. WEYMOUTH. We have on our consulting staff Mr. A. J. Wiley and Mr. Louis Hill, and we have consulted them regularly in reference to this whole problem. We have had several engineering