Mr. WEST. I think that the Southwest is going to offer, speaking in terms of decades, a wonderful market for power.

Mr. SWING. Greater than any other part of the United States? Mr. WEST. Well, I would not say that; the great industrial centers of the East-Pittsburgh, New York, and the rest-may exceed it. But there is no question about the development of the Southwest. It is going to be very rapid; and it is going to handle a very large consumption of power.

Mr. SWING. In that statement you read at San Diego, you said:

In a few years we will have exhausted our present available supply of water power and must look to the Colorado River in the interest of the territory we serve.

Mr. WEST. I think that is true.

Mr. SWING. Has that time arrived now?

Mr. WEST. No. That is speaking in terms of decades.

For instance, our company in 7 to 10 years is probably going to be scratching around very actively trying to find power. We are very directly concerned in seeing power development on the Colorado River.

Mr. SWING. Do you have a full demand for the power of your company now?

Mr. WEST. Oh, yes.

Mr. SWING. Senator Phipps said that, like any other company, they have not been able to keep up with the demand for hydroelectric power. Is that true?

Mr. WEST. Well, at times-for instance, during the last three months, with this abnormal water situation-we have not been able to keep up with it. But, speaking broadly, in the matter of years, we have not been able to keep up with it.

Mr. SWING. But that was said in June, 1922 ?

Mr. WEST. There was one time about then, I believe, when we had great difficulty in keeping up with the load; we had a very great increase in load then.

Mr. SWING. He said that his company is developing all the time

So that the hydroelectric business is only in its infancy. There will be a great and growing demand for hydroelectric development; and I think. we are only on the eve of development.

Mr. WEST. I think that is true.

Mr. RAKER. Mr. West, you have just recalled to my mind something that had slipped from it: About two years ago there was talk about Los Angeles going on the Colorado River and other places, with the result that practically all of the small cities outside of Los Angeles were condeming Los Angeles for its activity in hydroelectric development. Who financed that propaganda: do you know?

Mr. WEST. Well, that was very largely a spontaneous movement. It was not financed by any one. I have testified that we contributed some money to the cost of the Interior Counties Association; but if there ever was a spontaneous movement, it was that one.

Mr. SWING. Mayor Evans was one of the spontaneous advisers. Was he not hired for the purpose of spreading propaganda?

Mr. WEST. No, sir; we never paid the man a dollar to spread such propaganda; and, so far as we know, the Interior Counties Association was spontaneous

Mr. HAYDEN (interposing). Has your company ever spent any money to influence public opinion outside of California with respect to the Colorado River?

Mr. WEST. No, sir; except our expenses in coming down here, if you can call that doing so. For instance, our publicity agent has been referred to. He has not written an article to be handed out for publication concerning the Colorado River, that I know of. Mr. SWING. Take the League of the Southwest, that met at Riverside. How much did your company contribute toward that? Mr. WEST. Do you mean contribute towards the league itself? Mr. SWING. In the memberships?

Mr. WEST. Well, we contributed several hundred dollars to memberships. That was an association to develop the Colorado Basin. Mr. LITTLE. Has this small-town back-fire against Los Angeles been put out yet?

Mr. WEST. Well, it was effective, I think; it accomplished its

purpose.

Mr. LITTLE. Well; Los Angeles seems to peg right along?

Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; we are pegging right along, too.

Mr. LITTLE. That is right, too.

(Thereupon, at 1.10 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until 2.30 o'clock p. m.)

AFTER RECESS

The committee reassembled at 2.30 o'clock p. m.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Means will be the next witness.

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS H. MEANS, CONSULTING ENGINEER, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF.

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state your name and business and whom you represent, Mr. Means?

Mr. MEANS. My name is Thomas H. Means; I am a civil engineer; residence, San Francisco. I am in this matter in the employ of the Southern Sierras Power Co.

Mr. Chairman, may I make a brief statement?

The CHAIRMAN. We would prefer that you would proceed and make your statement, and then members of the committee may want to ask you questions.

Mr. SWING. Mr. Chairman, did he give his qualifications and the length of time he has studied the river?

The CHAIRMAN. I presume his statement will cover that.

Mr. SWING. Your statement will cover your experience on the river, and the amount of time you have spent in studying it? Mr. MEANS. Yes, sir.

I am a civil engineer, with an office in San Francisco, doing mostly irrigation work. I am occasionally employed by the Southern Sierras Power Co., in studying special problems assigned to me.

The CHAIRMAN. At one time you were in the employ of the Reclamation Service, were you not?

Mr. MEANS. I have been in the employ of the Department of Agriculture and of the Reclamation Service 15 years. For the past 14 years I have been in San Francisco as a consulting engineer. I had a per diem appointment with the Reclamation Service until about two or three years ago. I have had no connection with the service since then.

During my professional life I have had a number of opportunities to study the Colorado Delta and the Colorado River problem.

I went down the river in 1904, in a rowboat, to the head of the Gulf. I have had several other occasions to cross the delta, in various ways, and have studied various problems in Imperial Valley.

Mr. West, not long ago, asked me to make certain investigations in his behalf. He stated that there had been alarming reports concerning the dangerous conditions in the Imperial Valley, and the danger of flood and loss of life and property. He also asked me while there to look into the question of the all-American canal, as to its cost and feasibility; and I made the investigation and reported to him in writing.

I suppose you have had the Colorado Delta described to you a great many times; so that I will be very brief in that part of my

statement.

The Colorado River leaves its confining hills, about the international boundary line, and it enters the delta formed of silt. This river had built across an old arm of the Gulf of California a silt ridge, running in a direct line from Pilot Knob to Black Butte. The old elevation of this ridge was from 20 to 30 feet.

Prior to 1909, the river followed the old channel, as shown on this map [indicating], on the east side of the delta, close to the Sonora Mesa. When I first made the trip down the river, the entire river was in that channel. Just above the head of the Gulf, the old channel entered a large, deep and wide stream, know as "Hardy's Colorado," tidal channel, up which tide waters ran up here approximately to this point [indicating on map].

Mr. RAKER. Will you designate what point that is?

Mr. MEANS. Is is marked "Head of tide water" on this map. The CHAIRMAN. It is south of Volcano Lake?

Mr. MEANS. Some 15 miles south of Volcano Lake. And I think tidewater still goes in and out of that channel. I was along this channel [indicating] three years ago, and the tide was then running in and out. There is a very high rise of tide there, approximately 30 feet, with spring tides.

The CHAIRMAN. Thirty feet rise?

Mr. MEANS. At extreme tides, yes, sir; ordinarily the tides are

10 or 12 or 15 feet.

Mr. HAYDEN. Is the effect of the tides to make swamp of a large area near the mouth of the Colorado River?

Mr. MEANS. There is a very large area of land practically at sea level. There is an acreage of 60 to 100 thousand acres of tule in the Pescadero region, near "Hardy's Colorado," at sea leval; and there is south of the channel, and especially toward the mouth of the river, a tremendous alkali flat, on which you will find drift

wood scattered over an area 15 or 20 miles wide, which indicates that the river has been over that section, and it is rather fresh driftwood, so that it is presumable that at high tide this water goes in there. I have been there and seen it.

Mr. RAKER. What is the season of this high tide that you say comes at certain stages of the river?

Mr. MEANS. The high tides come at certain phases of the moon, without reference to the river. I think the big tide is in June; and others in the middle of the winter.

Mr. RAKER. That lasts only a short time?
Mr. MEANS. That lasts only a short time.

Mr. HAYDEN. What would be required in order to reclaim the land that is now affected by the tides?

Mr. MEANS. It would require a levee system. I do not know how high it goes over the bank; but probably not very high.

Mr. HAYDEN. You say there is 30 feet of tide?

Mr. MEANS. Well, that is the inside of the channel; that is at the head of the Gulf; you do not get 30 feet in the channel up in here at all [indicating on map].

In 1904, as Mr. West stated, the California Development Co. made a cut in order to get the water into their canal, which finally resulted in the breaking of the Colorado River into the Salton Sea: the water broke through before gates could be installed and the water cut off; in other words, the water got on the north side of that silt ridge. In the old days, water flowed out over these high banks and filtered out through the brush and the trees and into the Alamo River, and through it, down to the Salton Sea, at irregular intervals.

The CHAIRMAN. How long was that break in existence?

Mr. MEANS. About two years.

Mr. HAYDEN. During that time do you know how much it raised the water level of the Salton Sea?

Mr. MEANS. I think about 75 feet; the figures are in the record somewhere.

Mr. RAKER. Well, that was completely dry before this break? Mr. MEANS. Yes; although the water had been in there, according to tradition, several times; nevertheless, there were salt works in there.

Mr. RAKER. Well, that tradition goes back prior to the time that white people went to the section?

Mr. MEANS. So far as I know, it does.

The CHAIRMAN. At about what point was the Southern Pacific break?

Mr. MEANS. That was within 4 miles of the boundary line.
Mr. RAKER. That is the same break, is it not?

Mr. MEANS. That is the same break; yes, sir: and following that break, there was considerable trouble there for two years. This flood resulted in deep cutting of some of the old channels down towards the lake. The Imperial Valley received irrigation water all during this time, excepting the part on the west side of the river, where the flume of the old river channel had been cut off.

Now, ever since that experience, the Colorado River has been a menace to the Imperial Valley; and after the expenditure of a

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large amount of money they now have a levee system which, at the present time, protects the valley.

A lot of the old trouble was due to the inexperience, or to the lack of information or the lack of knowledge of how to handle the river channel, on the part of those who had the matter in charge, and, among other things, due to lack of knowledge as to when the floods were coming. The floods would come with no knowledge on the part of anybody of where they came from. At the present time they have the equipment and they have the experience and they have the personnel, so that even with a break such as happened in 1905, the repairs could be made much more rapidly and with assurance of success. There are a great many different protective works which have been built at various times. I wanted to give a brief description of this Pescadero cut. Mr. West described it carefully.

But, after a study of the situation by the engineers of the valleythey even took aerial pictures to enable them to get a better view of the situation. That is an exceedingly difficult country to travel over; the river spreads out, and you can not even go over it with a rowboat. But, with the surveys they made, the aerial and other surveys, they determined to take the river away from the Volcano. Lake levee, which was the most menacing point; the river flowed down the Bee River and overflowed the banks and came up against the Volcano Lake levee and exposed about 7 miles of that levee to wave action and to all of the menaces of a break.

The plan adopted finally was to dam off the Bee River channel and make a cut through the ridge toward low ground: in other words, make the straightest cut they could toward the Pescadero. The cut they made was approximately 4 miles long. The dredging removed 657,000 cubic yards of earth. The plan was to increase the amount of water going down this cut, so that it would enlarge the cut enough to take the entire river. That happened just as they expected.

They finally built the dam up to full height. They could not build this dam at the head of Bee River [indicating up to full height at first, because they did not know how great a flood was coming on, and they did not dare to raise the river level above the dam until the river had cut its bed. At the present time the river has opened this out indicating on map] big enough to take about 150,000 second-feet to bank level.

Mr. SWING. In what year did 150,000 second-feet of water go through?

Mr. MEANS. They have not had that yet.

Mr. SWING. Well, I thought you said they had.

Mr. MEANS. NO: I say they could take care of that much now. Mr. SWING. What is the maximum flow that has ever passed through there?

Mr. MEANS. About 100,000 second-feet. The river has continued to erode its channel, and now it will take 150,000 second-feet for it to get out of bank.

Mr. SWING. That is your opinion?

Mr. MEANS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, his opinion is worth something, as an engineer.