Mr. CARR. Yes. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Well, I am glad to know that. You are more progressive than I thought you were. Mr. CARR. There are very broad powers of eminent domain; and I may say that the cities in condemning the plants and taking them over have been very fair. In my own city of Pasadena, there was for many years a bitter controversy between the private company and the city over the occupation of the streets, etc. The city officials, however, said to the company that whenever the company was willing to sell its lines to the city, the city was ready to pay a fair price for them; and finally, the company was ready; and the city paid a fair price for them, although it was doubtful whether the city greatly needed that system. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. In the absence of an agreement, you could condemn? Mr. CARR. Yes. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. You could proceed under the doctrine of eminent domain? Mr. CARR. Yes, sir. Mr. SWING. Mr. Chairman, I should be glad if the committee would hear Clonel Fly now. The CHAIRMAN. Very well; we will hear Colonel Fly. TESTIMONY OF MR. BENJAMIN F. FLY, REPRESENTING CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, YUMA, ARIZ., AND YUMO COUNTY WATER USERS' ASSOCIATION (The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Please give your full name and state whom you represent? Mr. FLY. My name is Benjamin Franklin Fly. Mr. FLY. Of Yuma, Ariz.; representing the Chamber of Commerce of Yuma, the Yuma County Water Users' Association, of Yuma project, and, in so far as our interests do not conflict, also representing our neighbor, Imperial Valley. Mr. Chairman, I have spent almost 10 years of life now in studying the problems of the Colorado River, with particular reference to the community in which I live-Yuma, Ariz.-and our neighbors across the river in Imperial Valley. For quite a number of years I was the editor and owner of my own paper in Yuma. That was in the early years of my residence in Yuma. That was just at the time that Imperial Valley was beginning to divert the water, 6 miles below Yuma, at what was known as the Hanlon Heading, by means of a temporary diversion dam or weir. Imperial Valley at that time adopted the policy of checking the flow of the river to raise the water high enough so that it could get into their intake by means of dumping trainload after trainload of rock in the river, making a perfect barrier. I objected to that, and fought it very strenuously, demanding in my paper at all times that the only solution for Imperial Valley was to connect her project with our project at Laguna Dam and build an all-American canal to get away from the very unsatisfac tory_conditions of taking her water 60 miles through the Republic of Mexico. When the contract was finally entered into between the Imperial irrigation district on the one hand and the Department of the Interior of the United States, acting for the Yuma project, on the other hand, my sympathies all were then with Imperial Valley in her fight, because they had come to Yuma's way of thinking, and we wanted to help them in every possible conceivable way. Because, Mr. Chairman, the construction of that diversion dam [indicating on map on the wall], 6 miles below Yuma, raises the water at least 4 feet above the natural bed of the river. That, then, gives 6 miles of frontage here [indicating], where that water is continually seeping into our valley; and this [indicating on map] being uphill, it seeps in here [indicating] and strikes the mesa, where it can go no farther, and it gradually seeps down into the entire valley. That is a great menace and a great damage to the farmers of Yuma Valley. We fought that so successfully that eventually they were compelled to cease putting the rock in the river. During that fight I computed-I had engineers to help me compute it what they were doing, and found that the Imperial Valley was forced to dump enough rock into that river so that, if converted into a sidewalk 6 inches deep and 6 feet wide, would have gone from Yuma, Ariz., to New York City. Now, remember that the bed of the Colorado River is moving all the time. It is nothing in the world but the softest kind of silt; it is quicksand, in other words. You can put a rock in there, as I have seen them do, where it would take only two rocks to make a carload-you can dump those rocks into that river, and God Almighty himself alone knows where they go; they just keep sinking and sinking and sinking; and consequently they had to keep dumping one carload after another on top of that river bed, until they have finally made a complete rock bed in the river at that point. The contract of the Imperial irrigation district with Yuma Valley calls for the absolute removal of all of that rock. The contract was entered into on the 23d day of October, 1918. I was a party to that contract here, to the extent that I was in conference every day about it. Director Davis can bear me out in that. That contract compelled the Imperial Valley to construct the allAmerican canal and connect with the Yuma project at Laguna Dam at the earliest possible moment. It required the Imperial Valley to pay $1,600,000 to make its physical connection with Yuma project. Under the contract there is payable 2 per cent for the first four years, 4 per cent for the next two years, and then 6 per cent for each year thereafter until the entire amount is paid. The Imperial Valley, living literally up to its contract, has already paid into the reclamation fund something over $200,000, showing the anxiety of Imperial Valley to carry out her part of the contract. It was understood at that time-at the time that Secretary Lane signed the contract-that would get favorable legislation for the construction of the all-American canal as soon as possible. Yuma and Imperial Valley have been working along that line ever since. I have been here frequently myself in its behalf. I am here now. And I am most heartily in accord with the bill now pending, known as the Swing-Johnson bill, with the proviso, of course, that all of the interests of all the upper States shall be safeguarded in every manner, shape, and form. Mr. SWING. Colonel Fly, will it interrupt you if I make a suggestion before you leave that point? You will take the time now or later, will you not, to go into the question of the injunction which was first filed in 1916? Mr. FLY. I will discuss that right now. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Colonel, you have referred to a very interesting question, as to the volume of rock that was put into the river. How far to you estimate it to be from Yuma to New York City? Mr. FLY. Pretty nearly 3,000 miles; 2,500 miles.. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. That would be a sidewalk 6,000 miles long? Mr. FLY. About that, I think. I think you can check that up by figuring the number of carloads of rock put in there. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Do you mean to say that you put 10,560,000 cubic yards of rock in there? Mr. FLY. I will not attempt to say how many yards it was. But I can say this to you, Mr. Leatherwood, to show you the amount of soft mud that is coming down the river at that point: That during the seven years of the receivership of Colonel Hollabird, when he had Imperial Valley under his control, he swore, in making his final report, that enough silt and sand had come down through that intake to amount to more than all of the entire excavation of the Panama Canal. Or," he said, "to make it more concrete, more silt and sand has come through that intake than, if put on railroad cars, would make a solid train from San Francisco to New York and half way back again." 66 Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Well, I was interested in the amount of rock. Mr. FLY. That shows you how much rock was put down in the river. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. If you put 10,560,000 cubic yards of rock in there, about what would it cost per cubic yard? Mr. FLY. I do not know. Mr. Swing could probably tell you that. The annual reports of the Imperial irrigation district will show you the cost of all of that. Now, referring back to that diversion dam, which became such a menace to Yuma that our water users' association obtained an injunction against the Imperial Valley to restrain it from putting in any more rock in that place or maintaining any other diversion dam. That injunction is still pending, with an agreement between Yuma and Imperial Valley that as long as Imperial Valley is making an effort to construct the all-American canal and get away from that abomination at that point we will simply let it lie in abeyance. Mr. SWING. That is, Yuma gives Imperial Valley a year-to-year license to live? Mr. FLY. That is all; and it puts you under a $500,000 bond to guarantee that you do not do us any damage; that is renewed from year to year at a considerable expense to Imperial Valley. Mr. LITTLE. Is that one of the reasons why they want the allAmerican canal built? 92265-24-PT 2- -12 Mr. FLY. The principal reason. Mr. LITTLE. That is the principal reason? It Mr. FLY. I can not see but what that is the principal reason. insures us against any damage from this dam findicating on map]. We are relieved from that menace forever afterwards. If you take this canal here [indicating], instead of taking the water out of the river by means of that diversion dam [indicating], and go on up to the Laguna Dam, and take the water out, we are at once relieved from that great menace, which is growing day by day, every year. Mr. HAYDEN. Would it be physically possible, however, to build a canal from the Laguna Dam down to the Mexican boundarythe so-called "first leg" of the all-American canal-and remove that menace? Mr. FLY. It would certainly be possible; but that would not relieve the Imperial Valley from the terrible distress that she is in now. Mr. HAYDEN. But so far as the Yuma problem is concerned, that would be solved? Mr. FLY. That would be solved. Mr. HUDSPETH. Is that the only menace to your project? Mr. FLY. Here [indicating on map] is the great menace-this long levee on the American side of the river [indicating]. If that breaks back into the Salton Sea again, as it did in 1905 and 1906, and the bottom of the channel through which that flood water is flowing erodes as rapidly as it did at that time-which is about onethird of a mile a day-it is only a question of a very short time when that would keep crawling back and back, until it would get under the Laguna Dam; and that would just disappear like snow beside a furnace: and then we would be left high and dry. So that the only feasible thing to do, in my opinion, for the benefit of Yuma, is to build the all-American canal. Then there is no great danger of overflow down here [indicating]: the only thing you would have after that would be from the Gila River, and that is just a flash at a time occasionally. Mr. HAYDEN. You do not mean the all-American canal alone; you mean the storage works in the canyon above as well? Mr. FLY. Yes; I mean the storage works above also. Of course, I take it for granted that the all-American canal and the Boulder Dam go naturally hand in hand-as night follows the day. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. What is your thought as to where the cost of the construction of the all-American canal would be placed? Mr. FLY. It should be placed on the land that would be benefited. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. How much land would the all- American canal reclaim? Mr. FLY. About half a million acress over and above what is now under cultivataion. Altogether about a million acress. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. How much of that land is not now subject to water? Mr. FLY. About half a million acres. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. About half a million acres. What do you estimate the cost of the construction of the all-American canal would be? Mr. FLY. I thing about $30,000,000 or $35,000,000; is not that correct, Mr. Swing? Mr. SWING. That was the estimate made during war-time prices. Will you go into the question, Colonel Fly, of the menace of the uncontrolled river, as to flooding at Yuma? Mr. FLY. I thought that had been made very plain to everybody. Gentlemen, the Colorado River is the ugliest and meanest stream on the face of the earth. Its banks are nothing but Mr. LEATHERWOOD (interposing). Before we pass that, Colonel Fly, so that we will not need to go back to it again: On the basis of your figures there, that would be a pretty heavy charge per acre, would it not, for water for the land that would be brought in under the all-American canal? Mr. FLY. $35,000,000 against a million acres. Mr. SWING. In the report, it is estimated at $33 per acre. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. I understood you to say half a million acres? Mr. FLY. Half a million new acres. I do not suppose that the new acres will pay for the construction of the entire canal. I suppose the acreage already in cultivation would certainly pay some proportionate share when they got a stable supply of water. Mr. SWING. That is the contract which is in existence with the Government now. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. That the Imperial irrigation district would assume part of the construction cost? Mr. SWING. Acre for acre. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. That is, that the half a million new acres would share that with the acreage of the Imperial irrigation district? Mr. SWING. Acre for acre. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. What is the acreage in Imperial Valley? Mr. FLY. Something over half a million acres. I think it is 604,000 acres, in the Imperial irrigation district. The CHAIRMAN. Will you read those other figures on that map on the wall? Mr. FLY. East Mesa, 288,000 acres: West Mesa, 122,000 acres; Coachella Valley. 121,000 acres: Imperial Valley, 604,000 acres; total in the United States, 1,135,000 acres, that will be served by the allAmerican canal. Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Will some one, Mr. Swing, before the hearings are closed, give the committee some idea as to the fixed indebtedness now existing upon the Imperial Valley acreage: that is, the acreage included within the Imperial irrigation district? Mr. SWING. That can be put into the record. Now, Colonel Fly, will you take up that question of the menace to Yuma? Mr. FLY. Now, the greatest menace, of course, to Yuma is that as long as the water flows down the Colorado unchecked as it is now, we are in danger of being flooded out every year. On this part of the river [indicating on map] is part of the Yuma Project, although it is in California; all between that red line [indicating] and the river; that is divided into two sections; this [indicating] is the upper section, known as the white man's section; and the other is known as the Yuma Indian Reservation. There is a levee beginning at Laguna Dam and coming right straight on down to Yuma. With the river unchecked as it is now, |