this river, in its high flow, may break into the Imperial Valley, Yuma Valley, the Palo Verde Valley, or the Needles Valley. It broke into Palo Verde Valley not long ago and inundated 30,000 acres 3 feet. Fortunately, the country there was not below sea level, and after the flood went down they drained it off and reclaimed the land. But if the river ever gets into Imperial Valley again, I do not know how they will ever get it out, except by evaporation.

Mr. LITTLE. Would it not run into the Salton Sea?

Mr. SWING. The whole valley would be turned into a Salton Sea. It ran in here in 1905, 1906, and backed up and inundated a large part of the country. It cut a gorge one-quarter of a mile wide, and from 50 to 60 feet deep.

This gorge, called the New River, was cut back from the Salton Sea for a distance of 40 of 50 miles, or half way back to the Colorado River. If that great gorge, which it was continuing to cut back as long as the river was flowing in there [indicating], had been continued back to the bed of the Colorado River, then you would have had a much greater problem than the country had in 1905 and 1906, when they had to call upon the forces of the Southern Pacific Railroad to stop it

In that event you would not only have to replace the bank of the river, but you would have to start 60 feet down in the ground, and first build that up to the level of the bed of the river, before you could rebuild the bank which has been washed away. That is the problem which no one yet has ever had to undertake and which I hope no one will have to undertake.

And I will just say this about the levee system in Mexico: We are absolutely dependent upon it. Insurrectos fighting with Federals, fighting, say, for possession of the town of Mexicali, the capital of Lower California, finding themselves hard pressed to do something to injure the other faction, could at high water break the levee and turn the river into the town; or some one having a fancied grievance against the people of Imperial Valley could go down to the river, and with a stick of dynamite blow up the levee and turn the whole river into Imperial Valley. We have no way of policing or protecting the levee system.

Fortunately, the physical characteristics of the Colorado River make it possible to solve the whole flood problem by building one big dam at or near Boulder Canyon.

The Government has rightly entered upon the field of flood control, and why should it not? It undertakes to protect its citizens from injury from external violence. Why should it not also protect them from the violence of internal forces as well?

In the Mississippi River, since the formation of the Federal Mississippi Flood Control Commission, our Federal Government has expended $116,000,000 upon flood control work in the Mississippi Valley. Not a dollar of that has been or will be returned to the United States Treasury, except in the increased happiness and prosperity of the people who live there-and that is a sufficient return. And not only have they spent $116,000,000, but they must continue to spend money there, because the levee system is a continuous expense: you must be constantly at work guarding, renewing, or repairing it. So that, so far as the Mississippi River is

concerned, you have probably a never-ending problem to control the flood.

But here you are afforded an opportunity to solve the flood problem of the Colorado River, I might say, for once and all time to come; because it is estimated that it would be good for 300 years or more, and we need not worry about what happens after that. The opportunity is offered not only to solve the problem; not only to control the flood; not only to remove the ever-recurring menace; but also to guarantee every dollar that the United States Government expends in that structure can be and will be returned to the United States Treasury, with interest, in less than 30 years.

The Boulder Dam site, which a good many of the members of the committee have seen, and the pictures of which are here, is a very wonderful site in my opinion. I have been told by geologists that it comes nearest to being a perfect site for a dam of any that they have seen in the world. On the Arizona side, the walls go up at Black Canyon 600 feet or more, practically vertically. When I saw them I thought that they were vertical, but the engineer corrected me and said, no, it was an angle of 95 degrees.

On the Nevada side, the bank slopes back somewhat more. Also there is a squeeze in the walls of the river, which will have the effect, if you put a dam there, like putting a cork in a bottle and pressing on the cork: The harder you press, the tighter the cork.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. At that point, how far below the level of the river would you have to go to get to bed rock?

Mr. SWING. I think there are spots where you would have to go 135 or 140 feet, but the width of the river at Boulder is only 185 feet across at the water's surface.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. What is the character of the material through which you would have to go to get to bed rock?

Mr. SWING. Granite boulders, I understand. I do not know; the engineers can tell you more about that than I can; but in my opinion, those boulders could be crushed and put right back and used in the construction of the dam. I will have to refer that question to the engineers, however.

I understand that a practical method has been devised for the construction of a dam at this place which has stood the test and met the approval of the most eminent engineers of the West.

I just want to say this: That on this work there has been applied the best thought of former Director A. P. Davis, of the Reclamation Service; Mr. F. E. Weymouth, chief engineer of the Reclamation Service, and numerous other Government engineers. Let me say this, the Reclamation Service has constructed more irrigation dams than any other agency in the world, and I do not know of any dam that they have built having gone out. They built the highest dam in the world-probably the three highest dams in the world.

The plans which they have completed have been passed upon by a very able body of engineers of the West, with some of whom you gentlemen ought to be familiar-Mr. Louis Hill, of Los Angeles, for years in the Government service; Mr. James Munn, and Mr. J. L. Savage, of Denver; Mr. Wylie, of Boise, and others, who have been in charge of various important irrigation undertakings. Then there is Mr. Gaylord, of Denver.

Now, I do not want to go into the engineering part of it; but I just want to say this: That in the Southwest, there is no coal and the oil supply is fast diminishing. To-day there happens to be a temporary surplus of oil, but I spent three days in the oil regions, and what I was told was this: That the three greatest producing oil fields in the world at the time, Huntington Beach, in my district; Santa Fe Springs, which adjoins my district; and Signal Hill, just over the line from my district-these three oil fields were destined to begin to show signs of exhaustion within one year. Since I have been here I have been advised that at Santa Fe Springs water is beginning to come into the wells-and any oil man knows what that

means.

But the point is this-and we have the geologist's report, based upon the survey of some of the best geologists in the countrythat, if you could get oil out as fast as our country is using it to-day, the oil supply would be exhausted in 20 years. But suppose they are wrong, by 100 per cent, and it is 40 years: What is 40 years in the life of a country?

The people of the United States, from all parts of the country, are flocking to the Southwest. I do not undertake to explain why they want to come to our country but they are coming. They have to be taken care of; they have to be supplied with the ordinary comforts to which they were accustomed in the States from which they came. The growth of the country has resulted, according to the engineers engaged in electrical work, in a steady increase in the consumption of electricity of at least 20 per cent a year. Twenty per cent a year, compounded, will amount to a very considerable amount of power at the end of 10 years and they estimate that they are 100,000 horsepower short to-day.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. In order that I may know just your position in this matter, I would like to ask a question: As I understand it, the urgent necessity of the Government proceeding along the line suggested in your bill is to protect the people of the Imperial Valley from the menace of the river?

Mr. SWING. Yes, sir; that is the urgency.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. That is the paramount object to be attained? Mr. SWING. Yes, sir.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. If the Government, then, should take charge of the Colorado River and control it so that you would not be menaced by this flood, you are not primarily concerned then as to how they control it, are you?

Mr. SWING. We will leave that to the engineers of the United States Government.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. I want to know what your position is? Mr. SWING. I say I am willing to leave it to the engineers of the Government to work out the best and most businesslike plan.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Well, if you get protection from the floods, are you satisfied. If the Government protects you now from the flood menace, are you satisfied?

Mr. SWING. I will answer that in this way. As the Colorado River is to-day, it is a menace-a liability. That menace or liability can be converted into an asset and made to produce revenue. my Government is to assume the burden of the liability, to wit, flood

If

control, I want to make sure that it also gets the asset which is power and which is a necessary incident to the flood-control dam. I do not believe that it is a business proposition for Congress to expend twenty or twenty-five millions dollars to construct a dam merely for flood control, and which will not have in itself the means of repayment to the Treasury of the money which it is called upon to expend. I could not agree to the Government assuming the liability and then turn the asset over to the private-power corporations. I do not believe we would have much chance of getting a proposition like that through Congress. What we must be able to show if we expect to get the support of this committee and of Congress is that we have a proposition whereby the United States Government can do this thing which it ought to do, remove the menace of flood danger on the Lower Colorado River, and at the same time get back every dollar that it will have to expend in the doing of the work. We must show that, or we will fail.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Let me ask you another question: If Congress should decide to take control of the river and protect you from the menace of the flood season, would that be satisfactory to you and to the people of the Imperial Valley?

Mr. SWING. I have this much confidence in this committee and in this Congress-in its wisdom; in its foresight; in its statesmanlike qualities and ability, that I believe that, when the facts are all presented to it, the plan and method which it adopts will be one which I can heartily approve.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Then, if they should adopt some other method of controlling the flood waters, you would be satisfied?

Mr. SWING. Well, I represent more than Imperial Valley; I am a representative of the country at large as well. I hope to see-I shall work to see I expect to see this project handled, not only in a businesslike way, but in a statesmanlike way. Here is an opportunity not merely to remove a liability, but to turn that liability into national asset, which will not only repay the cost to remove the liability; and not only that, but it will for generations to come pay a revenue and earn a dividend for the American people, just like the Panama Canal is doing. I want to be sure the American people get the benefits that will come from this project and not the private power companies.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Well, if Congress, in its wisdom should devise some plan for taking care of the flood water, so that none of the people in the area you have described should be menaced by the flood, then the object that you seek would be attained, would it not? Mr. SWING. One of the objects would.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. What other object is there?

Mr. SWING. If you will just permit me I will go right on. Here is a stream in a country where, as I undertook to point out, there was a great shortage of power and fuel. It contains within its borders the means of furnishing those; and that is one of the integral parts of our proof in this hearing, to show where the Government can get its money back. You, Mr. Leatherwood, and every one of you gentlemen will be asked on the floor of the House, when this bill gets there: How will this Government get back its money? You must be able to point out the means of return or recapture of the money that the Government invests.

And that return lies in the fact that there exists a great market for the power that will be developed as a by-product of the floodcontrol dam; and the Government can either sell the power, or get a royalty on the power that is sold, and in that way get revenue enough to return the entire cost of the project in 30 years. That will be shown to the satisfaction of this committee as the testimony goes on. I will not undertake to handle that, because I am not an expert on that subejct.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. Well, if the Government should determine to put a dam at Black Canyon, but not so high as you desire; or if it should put another one up the river farther a series of dams— and should determine to develop power at all of those dams upon a basis that would repay the Government and at the same time control the flood waters, would you have any objection to that?

Mr. SWING. Mr. Leatherwood, you and I have practiced law a good many years; and it is my custom to present my case to the jury; and when the jury returns its verdict, and it is the voice of the people. I bow to their wisdom; and I shall do that in this case. And in the meantime, I want to present what I deem to be the facts, in an unbiased way, for consideration by this committee and by Congress; and when they have spoken, I will bow to their decision in the

matter.

Mr. RAKER. You would not bow to it if you thought they were wrong, would you?

Mr. SWING. You bow when the jury brings in its verdict.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. You proceed upon the other hypothesis also, that this work should be done so that the greatest good will result to the greatest number, do you?

Mr. SWING. Absolutely.

Now, as to what can be made of this as an asset in this country, where there is a great shortage of power, and where the shortage will continue to increase at compound interest at a rate of 20 per cent: At this dam site. at a height of 605 feet, there can be developed in excess of what was suggested to this committee at the former hearing. We have been too conservative in stating that it would produce 600,000 horsepower. The latest information, compiled by the Reclamation Service, show that it will be between 800,000 and 1,000,000 horsepower.

Mr. LEATHERWOOD. What area will be served by that?

Mr. SWING. Any area that desires to be served, within a radius of 500 miles. Your country, if it desires to have service from that dam, can have it; because a large part of Utah will be within the 500-mile circle; and if the developments from the genius of American inventors goes on, along the lines of perfection of a process of longdistance transmission, it will be only a period of a few years-and I believe it will be before this dam will be completed-when the radius of service will be 1,000 miles; because they have already shown, in laboratory tests, that they can send electric power up to 1,000,000 volts over a wire; and to-day in actual commercial work they are sending electricity a distance of 500 to 600 miles.

That 1,000,000 horsepower would represent the equivalent of 35.000.000 barrels of oil a year, according to an estimate which has been given me. So that here is, to use a figure of speech, a river of