to use food stamps are using them at the present time. And there are thousands of families that are not welfare recipients who are eligible to use food stamps, and this would increase their present purchasing power considerably if they used the food stamps.

The education cannot be done totally through news media. We tried this. You have to have the workers down in the neighborhoods, actually contacting these families and showing them how they can benefit by using food stamps, through changing their purchasing habits, and I think that this is a very strong justification for the bill. In addition, there is the work of the youth workers in working with youngsters throughout the community. Some of the young children who are not supervised and are not yet under the jurisdiction of a public agency requires the youth workers to be out there working in the community which would be very helpful, I think, as a preventative.

Senator MORSE. Dr. Miller, of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, is, as you know, working in the field of land-grant colleges and has been for many years. He was president of the University of West Virginia, which is a land-grant college, and he stressed-and I mention this very briefly-the relationships which characterize the land-grant colleges' programs in relation to families in the area. He was pointing out that prior to the extension program of the land-grant colleges, the work was with the families which you referred to, Mrs. Thompson-your reference to the home economics program. I commented on Friday as to the serious need in the District of Columbia, of many of our families, including the influx of really migrants from the South, the colored families in which we have what we call functional illiteracy, in their needing training in connection with the preparation of food. They receive the supply of food, but if they cannot prepare the food in edible form, preserving the food values of the food, then you have proof of the crying need of the type of service that home economic extension programs can supply. I made reference Friday to what we discovered back in 1957 when we conducted the so-called Morse hungry children investigation-the committee conducted, it bearing my name only because I was chairman of the subcommittee; and every member of the subcommittee deserves equal credit for that investigation-which brought about some changes in the Agriculture Department's distribution of surplus foods, but we ran into the problem which clearly implied the need for home economics training. We discovered the surprising number of mothers in the District who did not know how to prepare the food. I think that it is important, that we not only have the home economics program but you should also have the health program that goes along with the extension services of land-grant colleges to the families in the areas served.

On last Thursday night I had the experience of making 4-H Club awards at the Montgomery County Fair, to the 4-H Club programs for girls. Also I inspected the same programs for boys.

They get into industrial training fields and the development of industrial skills in various projects. There is no question about the need in Washington, D.C., for the kind of training program that a landgrant college can help foster. What I am after is money as well as servíce, and I see no reason why the District of Columbia should be dis

criminated against in the matter from the standpoint of funds when you have the serious need for the service. Wherever we can get the money that can meet the kind of educational service needed, we ought to go after it. So, I am doing it for that reason, too. I am doing it also for other reasons. You have heard me say it before, but I cannot repeat it too often, that you have a population here that is larger than the population of 11 of our States. That is something that most people do not realize. Most people do not know that within the boundaries of the District of Columbia you have more people than live in 11 States of this country. Look at what you deny them, so far as rights are concerned, in the services that they need.

At long last, we have gone ahead with the institutions of higher learning for the young people within that population. No State in the Union denies the people of the State, certainly the young men and young women of the State, an institution of public higher education, so that a young man and a young woman with a low-income status can have an opportunity at least to go to college. We are at long last over that hurdle.

Now, it is a question of what the program is going to be.

I recognize here the type of need that you are talking about. I not only recognize that, but I think that they are not only entitled to receive that but also the opportunity to get some money. In my judgment, these funds would be properly spent and justifiably spent. I cannot stress too much what you have mentioned, because the other types of services that land-grant colleges render is necessary, but, as Dr. Miller said the other day:

Do not forget what the land-grant college tries to do, which is to provide a program of service to the families; and not just to the students, but to the families of the students.

That is why I think that there is a great deal of merit in the bill. I am sorry to have supplemented your testimony, except that I thought that it would help to emphasize what you have in mind.

Mrs. THOMPSON. Thank you.

Senator MORSE. Dr. Grant?

Dr. GRANT. Mr. Chairman, I think you have made some of the most cogent arguments for this bill in the statements you have just made. It is clear to me, though, that here is a program that has been in existence in the other States for many years and has proved extremely beneficial in many of those States.

I agree with you, Mr. Chairman, when you say that this is a not a program just for the rural areas. I remember well, a number of years ago when I worked in the Kansas City area, that we utilized this gram rather extensively in the suburbs of Kansas City and not just in the rural area.

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We feel that it could be a very valuable program in the District of Columbia. It is a family program as well as a student program.

From my point of view in the Department of Public Health, we believe that we would, and could, work very closely with the program in terms of nutrition educational programs in which we have a rather extensive program in our department. We would want to utilize this program in working closely with the land-grant college. I believe that we would work very closely with the youth programs in the various aspects of health.

I feel that this is an excellent program. We strongly support the bill. Senator MORSE. Thank you very much, Dr. Grant.

There is only one thing that I want to add for the hearing record. I will read a paragraph from the President's statement made on June 20, 1964, when the President made a speech in Irvine, Calif., at the dedication ceremonies there, when he said:

A century ago we were a nation of farms and farmers. Eighteen per cent of our people lived in rural areas. We had to cultivate a wilderness of western lands. Congress passed legislation then to apply the science of our learning to the secrets of our agriculture, and our colleges and our universities set out to change our farms. Well, the results were revolutionary-so revolutionary that today one farmworker produces what six produced a hundred years ago. Now, 70 percent of our people live in urban areas, like Los Angeles. Their needs are immense. But just as their colleges and universities changed the future of our farms a century ago, they can help change the future of our cities. I foresee the day when an urban extension service, operated by universities across the country, will do for urban America what the Agricultural Extension Service has done for rural America, and I am asking the United States Commissioner of Education to meet with the leaders of education-men like your own Clark Kerr-to see how that can come to pass.

Now, I do not make any attribution at all to this bill, but I do want to say that this bill offers people an opportunity to carry out what the President said when he said:

I foresee the day when an urban extension service, operated by universities across the country, will do for urban America what the Agricultural Extension Service has done for rural America.

In the land-grant college extension service, it can do just that.

And, furthermore, I would point out, in regard to what undoubtedly will be said by some; the primary purpose of the land-grant college, as Congressman Morrill envisioned when the Morrill Act was adopted, was to serve the rural areas of the country. Even the type of service that we are asking for in technology training, in the industrial training of the young men and young women who will go to this school in the District of Columbia, is going to be able to train technicians that are going to be necessary, really, to help in many aspects of rural America. Particularly, as I said yesterday, in those areas in which there is a preponderant number of farmers who are colored and where you still have to admit that the chief farm machine is the mule. There is a great need for the training of young men and women as technicians to go into the rural areas of America.

I want to thank you very much for your testimony. It has been very helpful to me.

Mr. DUNCAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MORSE. The next witness will be Dr. Samuel Nabrit, Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Washington Technical Institute. We are delighted to have you here.

I want, for the record, to thank you for the service that you have been rendering the District of Columbia in helping to lay the foundations for what I think will be in another 15 or 20 years one of the great vocational schools of the country.

Dr. NABRIT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

STATEMENT OF DR. SAMUEL NABRIT, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, WASHINGTON TECHNICAL INSTITUTE

Dr. NABRIT. Last Monday, the board of the Washington Technical Vocational Institute met in Washington and fully endorsed the general intent of S. 1999.

The District of Columbia, unlike the several States, has not had the land-grant association made available for any type of extension services. For this reason, we believe, as a matter of principle and fairness, that this is a recognition of a needed review of our support for educational purposes in the country, and we are, indeed, grateful to you for having had the wisdom and the foresight to present this bill.

We do agree with the District of Columbia Commissioners in the sense that flexibility could be appropriately included in the bill for, in fact, all of the Southern States who, up until just a few years ago, divided their land-grant funds between the Negro and the white landgrant institutions, although the appropriation was made to the State for a single land fund. So, we do not see anything illegal, or that it would not be a new precedent in making possible flexibility in the distribution of funds to take place.

Senator MORSE. That is very helpful to me. I hope that counsel takes note of what Dr. Nabrit has said, in presenting a memorandum on that. It shows that although the States may name a given institution as the land-grant institution, it nevertheless uses the executive power to distribute the funds among other institutions.

Dr. NABRIT. This is so. In addition to this, we believe that a claim could be made and supported by our universities, by the Federal City College, for special kinds of programs in which they would be uniquely qualified to carry out that would transcend the goal and the function of the technical institute; whereas, primarily, we think that the Washington Technical Institute is, by its very definitional commitment. the institution which most nearly fits the bill in all particulars.

Senator MORSE. I think that is important. We will have counsel for the committee check it as to the matter of precedent and, also, as to the matter of law; that is, to see if it does not work where the flexibility principle will be applied by way of the authority to distribute some of the funds to another institution for a specific program.

Dr. NABRIT. So that, in conclusion, we would like to endorse this bill for the intents and purposes introduced, and we strongly recommend that the flexibility principle be included.

Senator MORSE. Thank you very much.

Dr. NABRIT. Thank you.

Senator MORSE. You have been very helpful to me.

The next witness will be Dr. N. P. Ralston, Deputy Administrator of the Federal Extension Service, who is accompanied by Dr. T. C. Byerly, Administrator, Cooperative State Research Service of the Department of Agriculture.

We are delighted to have you gentlemen with us.

You may proceed in your own way.

STATEMENT OF DR. N. P. RALSTON, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL EXTENSION SERVICE, ACCOMPANIED BY DR. T. C. BYERLY, ADMINISTRATOR, COOPERATIVE STATE RESEARCH SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

Dr. RALSTON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, we wish to thank you for the opportunity to meet with this committee to present the U.S. Department of Agriculture's views on S. 1999, a bill to amend title II of the District of Columbia Public Education Act. With me is Dr. T. C. Byerly, Administrator of the Cooperative State Research Service.

S. 1999 would enable the Washington Technical Institute to be considered a college for the benefit of the mechanical arts and agriculture in accordance with provisions of the Morrill Act of July 2, 1862. This bill would enable the institute to receive the benefits of land-grant college acts specified in the bill. The U.S. Department of Agriculture has jurisdiction over the following acts cited in the bill: The SmithLever Act (7 U.S.C. 341–346, 347a, 348, 349a); the agricultural research Hatch Act (7 U.S.C. 361a, 361i); the Research Facilities Act (7 U.S.C. 390-390k); the Bankhead-Jones Act of 1935 amended by the act of August 14, 1946 (7 U.S.C. 427, 4271); and the Agricultural Marketing Act of 1946 (7 U.S.C. 1621–1629). The other acts referred to in the bill are under the jurisdiction of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. We have no recommendations regarding provisions of the bill which would be administered by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture favors initiating programs principally in 4-H youth development and home economics in the District of Columbia in cooperation with the Federal Extension Service. Cooperative extension service has over 50 years of experience in helping people to help themselves and to help others. Extension programs have for many years served people in rural America and have in recent years served people in urban areas. Programs in 4-H youth development and home economics, in a limited way, have been successful in such cities as Syracuse and Buffalo, N.Y.; Kansas City, Mo.; Providence, R.I.; and Chicago, Ill.

Senator MORSE. That is exactly the sentence I needed to have someone say to me in these hearings. It bears out the observations made in prior hearings, and if you could, subsequently-maybe you do it later in your statement-give us a memorandum to be added to your testimony that would give us some examples of the projects that have been worked out in Syracuse, Buffalo, Kansas City, Philadelphia, and Chicago, it would buttress my position before the full committee and on the Senate floor. That is what I need. I know that it exists, but I am not a competent witness on it. If you can give us some examples of the projects which bear out exactly the principle of the observation that the President made in his California speech when he talked about the need for the extension service in the urban centers, it will be helpful. This is a very helpful sentence for me, and I want to thank you for it.