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that most of them do not have a research laboratory? Now General Motors does and Ford and Bell and Textron, all these. How much good can we do for this country if we set in motion the bridging of that gap so that our small industries or small businesses can take advantage of it in our innovation centers?

They run into a crisis out here. That's why they are so innovative. It goes back to the old statement that crisis is the mother of invention. We've got a lag in this country, a gap in this country. Therefore, our smaller industries and business people in this country do not have that research mechanism or that laboratory facility at their fingertips that can provide for them what General Motors has. The larger companies set aside enough in their budgets that they can take care of it.

Dr. KLEMPERER. In some areas, I think the small companies have been extremely successful, haven't they?

Mr. WATKINS. With the tools they have to work with, yes.

Dr. KLEMPERER. I think there again, their success is dependent on the availability of highly educated people to work in these companies. I might be totally wrong in this, but that's my perception. In other words, I would think that Silicon Valley depends very much on highly skilled solid state physicists, computer scientists, and that sort of person. Now, I don't know if one went down company by company, field by field, if we could see what we are lacking. I'm sorry. I'm really ignorant on this.

Mr. WATKINS. I am not scientific in my study on this at all, but as I talk with people, I find that many people have ideas and they are creative and they want to do certain things. For instance, when people run into a crisis they start saying there has got to be a better way, so they start trying to find that way. Usually, there are two questions to be answered. One, is there a technical answer to the question, and can this technology be built!

Many of them in small businesses can't find the answer. General Motors and all the others have got it right there at their fingertips. It's remarkable after they find out whatever it is. What I'm trying to do is help bridge that gap. Maybe that's where I'm coming from. I think small business needs as much of your help as we can get to bridge this gap of technical resources. I know the chairman is looking at me again. I better quit.

Mr. Brown. Well, I very much appreciate your line of questioning, Mr. Watkins. I sometimes think that our witnesses feel that I'm the only one who expresses these ideas. When you express similar ideas, it kind of reinforces my position.

Mr. Watkins. Makes me look smarter?
Mr. Brown. It makes me look smarter. [Laughter.]

Dr. Klemperer, I don't foresee your particular program as being in any critical dangers this year. It's likely to be supported with enthusiasm from all sides, You are just lucky, I guess. [Laughter.]

Dr. KLEMPERER. That's very nice news. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Brown. If we may, I'd like to excuse you at this time and go to one whose programs don't enjoy the same amount of luck. Dr. Clark? Dr. Eloise Clark is Assistant Director for Biological, Behavioral and Social Sciences and has a distinguished career which almost belies description.

Without objection, I will include the biographical data in the record at this point. We are very pleased to have you here this morning, Dr. Clark. You may proceed in any way you wish. Your full statement will be included in the record. [The biographical sketch of Dr. Eloise E. Clark follows:]


Dr. Eloise Elizabeth Clark joined the National Science Foundation in 1969 as program director for Developmental Biology. Since then she has been program director for Biophysics ; section head for Molecular Biology ; division director of Biological and Medical Sciences ; deputy assistant director and acting assistant director of the Biological, Behavioral, and Social Sciences Directorate. She was nominated by the President in July 1976 and confirmed in September by the Senate to her present position.

NSF's Biological, Behavioral, and Social Sciences Directorate supports research in the major areas of: (1) physiology, cellular, and molecular biology ; (2) environmental biology ; (3) behavioral and neutral sciences, including psychology, anthropology, and linguistics; and (4) social sciences, including economics, sociology, and political science. Specialized research facilities, equip ment, workshops, symposia, and conferences, as well as doctoral dissertations are also supported.

Dr. Clark completed a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1951 at the Mary Washington College of the University of Virginia. She completed her Ph.D. at the University of North Carolina in developmental biology in 1957 and continued postdoctoral research in physical biochemistry at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri, and at the University of California, Berkeley. Dr. Clark came to NSF from the biology department of Columbia University where she taught graduate and undergraduate students. Her research interests were in the physical biochemistry of proteins molecules. She also taught at the Woods Hole Marine Biological Laboratory for several summers.

During her tenure at NSF Dr. Clark has worked on a number of interagency and professional committees. She is a member of the Board of Regents for the National Library of Medicine and the policy committee for the competitive grants program at the Department of Agriculture; she serves on two White House committees; the Interdepartmental Task Force on Women and the Interagency Task Force for the Conference on Families, and two FCCSET1 committees : the Committee on Health and Medicine and the Committee on Food and Renewable Resources of which she is vice chairperson. She is a member of a number of professional societies, including the American Institute of Biological Sciences, American Society for Cell Biology, Marine Biological Laboratory at Woods Hole, Society for General Physiologists, Biophysical Society, and Sigma Xi. She has served on the council of several of them and is currently on the Board of Directors of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

She is a member of Phi Beta Kappa and a Distinguished Alumna of Mary Washington College; she holds an honorary degree from King College and is listed in a number of biographical references.

Dr. Clark resides in Washington, D.C.



Dr. CLARK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I must say your prefatory remarks intimidate me about knowing how to proceed.

Mr. Brown. I am merely refering to the fact that the tenor of criticism of most of the unenlightened Congressmen tends to focus on the programs in your directorate. The committee, of course, is very supportive.

Dr. CLARK. I would like to submit my written statement for the record, with your permission, and also thank the committee for the special opportunity that you are providing. The subsequent hearing that will explore in some detail research in the behavioral and social science aspects of our programs will be welcomed. I look forward to being able to provide you with interesting and exciting information about what these studies are accomplishing.

1 Federal Coordinating Council for Science, Engineering, and Technology.

This morning, I will be brief in my remarks and emphasize just a few points. One is that the earlier discussion in this session about how to bridge the gap between basic information and applied results for society makes me remark that this is a time in which this is happening in biological research to an accelerating degree. As Dr. Atkinson mentioned, there is an entirely new industry growing up around a spinoff from our understanding and use of recombinant DNA techniques.

While I describe some of this in my testimony, I would like to indicate that the opportunity for this new development is built on 30 years of studying the properties of DNA and the enzymes involved in cleaving and replicating this molecule.

On page 7 of my written testimony, I quote Dr. David Baltimore, a Nobel Prize winner who was a major contributor in this area of research. He points out that many scientists work out of the logic of their research, and they often are not thinking about how their studies may benefit society.

But, then he indicates that these are areas in which we often get real surprises in new knowledge. He goes on to say, "Consequently, I find it heartening that we can now say to the public, ‘You've been investing all this money for so long and now things are emerging that are of practical value”.

It is important to keep in mind that many of the projects NSF supports are seemingly esoteric and not well understood by the public. A case in point occurred during the posture hearing. Congressman Goldwater raised a question about what NSF was doing in studies of human error, and particularly the degree to which circadian rhythms might influence pilot error or relate to jet lag.

I might remind the committee that the whole development and awareness of our understanding of circadian rhythms in human beings—not that we understand them, but our knowledge that such a phenomenon exists resulted from studies on the lowly fiddler crab by Dr. Frank Brown. So, describing this man as running around Woods Hole looking at fiddler crabs could certainly have sounded silly some 30 years ago, or even today. It should make us humble to realize that much about human behavior has been learned from animal studies.

Mr. Brown. You might want to prepare a short paragraph containing that information for our future use.

Dr. Clark. I will certainly be happy to.
Mr. Brown. Perhaps Mr. Goldwater would be interested in that.

Dr. CLARK. I was aware of the development of circadian rhythms, but I had forgotten the significant details. I looked it up: A clever but simple experiment gave a conclusive proof. He moved fiddler crabs from the Massachusetts coast to Illinois and to Berkeley. Having displaced them geographically, he nonetheless found that the daily color changes of their pigment patterns persisted on the basis of the east coast tidal rhythms.

Mr. Brown. I wish you would do that.
Dr. CLARK. I will do that.
[The information referred to is as follows:]


DISCOVERY OF BIOLOGICAL CLOCKS Observations on the "fiddler crab" in the late 1940's and early 1950's made by Professor Frank Brown at Northwestern University initiated research in the U.S. on biological rhythms. Professor Brown, who worked at the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, was primarily interested in crustacean endrocrinology. He was specifically interested in a hormone found in the eyestalk of rustaceans that caused them to darken or lighten. During the day, the animals became dark and then lightened during the night. This was thought to be due to sunlight. However, Professor Brown observed that animals in the laboratory also went through this cycle even though they were kept under constant light conditions. Margarette Webb, then a Ph. D. student of Brown, pursued this for her dissertation. Through a series of experiments, Webb and Brown established for the first time that the color cycle in crustaceans was a clockcontrolled rhythm synchronized to the tides at Woods Hole.

From this early research on simple animals has grown a large body of information on the biological rhythms of human beings and the impact of a disrupted circadian rhythm cycle_effects most commonly noted as “jet lag."

Mr. Brown. I know it will be helpful to us. I notice your reference on page 7 to an article in Business Week. There have been some other business oriented periodicals that have commented on this tremendous development of biologically oriented small new businesses.

I think I saw one figure indicating that the stock value of three or four of these new companies was around a half billion dollars before they produced a single product.

Dr. CLARK. That's quite remarkable.

Mr. Brown. I think we need to use some examples of that sort and compare it with the amount of money that we spend on DNA research, specifically to show the economic consequences of some of this basic science funding.

Dr. CLARK. In the course of the excitement about DNAand I must say, I share in the thrill of the science because it is extraordinary to think that we are close to understanding how genes can be turned off and on in higher organisms. Most of our knowledge up to now was based on bacterial and other microbial systems. It is important to remember that quite important advances also are coming in environmental biology.

Our understanding of ecosystem functions has considerable relevance for improvements in agriculture and forestry. Not that relevance is the aspect of science that is driving the research person who goes into these fields.

We do have some concern that employment opportunity in the recombinant DNA area and in some of the ecological areas is so attractive in both government and industry that we may lose the next generation of scientists in these fields at the universities. I am exaggerating a bit, but it is critical to maintain a research base at the universities in order to provide the state-of-art knowledge and research experience for the next generation of scientists. Now, many of the brightest students are being attracted to industrial and government employment.

At present, biology is a particularly exciting area both because of the developments of knowledge in the science and its immediate relevance to problems of concern to many citizens.

I will stop now and let you ask some questions. [The prepared statement of Dr. Clark follows:] 1 This term was apparently introduced by editors of Scientific American and first used in 1954.





FEBRUARY 5, 1980

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee :

I am pleased to present the Foundation's authorization request for

support of research in the biological, behavioral, and social sciences.

For FY 1981 we are requesting $182 million; this represents an increase

of 9.2 percent over our current budget.

This projected budget increase

is modest and will be used selectively. My testimony will highlight

those parts of our program that are scheduled for major emphases and

will give special attention to those that are of interest to Congress.

But before discussing the budgetary details, I should like to take

a few moments to place the importance of these sciences in perspective.

Twenty-five broad programmatic areas are encompassed within the

Biological, Behavioral, and Social Sciences (BBS) component of NSF.

For these areas, NSF's role in support of basic research at

universities and consequently for the Nation is of highest importance.

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