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Employees of the Department of Commerce and other departments and independent offices of the Government may, with the consent of the head of the respective department or office, be employed and compensated for field work in connection with the Fifteenth Decennial Census.

The purpose of this provision may be somewhat obscure on first reading. It is, however, an essential part of the provisions for efficient and economical field work in a comprehensive decennial census. Previous to its inclusion in the Decennial Census Act, the Bureau of the Census found especial difficulty in enumerating individuals, farm3, and business establishments in isolated or relatively inaccessible parts of the country; for example, persons on shipboard, on Indian reservations, or living in national forests, as well as in rarely visited parts of our outlying possessions. Also, there was difficulty in finding interpreters to act as enumerators for certain colonies of aliens. Rather than train new enumerators and send them at additional expense to take care of these difficult places, it has seemed more expedient both to the Bureau of the Census and heretofore to the Congress also to make use of Federal employees already familiar with such territories who had access to the people or industries located in these places as part of their regular Government duties. For example, employees of the Department of the Interior are familiar with Alaska and, as part of their duties, visit all parts of that territory. Under the provision which has been proposed for repeal, it has been possible for the Bureau of the Census to employ as its enumerators the Federal school teachers in Alaska. The recent census of Alaska would not have been a success had not the law permitted the services of these employees to be utilized. Similarly, the Census used as enumerators employees of the Forest Service in national-forest areas; interpreters of the Immigration Service for groups of recent immigrants; members of the Coast Guard for the relatively inaccessible outlying possessions that they regularly visit; employees of the Indian Service on their several reservations; and employees of other Government agencies dealing with special groups under unusual field conditions. Doing without the services of such experienced people who already are familiar with the territory to be canvassed and which they are required to visit in the course of their own primary assignments for other Federal agencies, would be a serious handicap to the Bureau of the Census in carrying on its comprehensive surveys. The present arrangement is practical and economical.

I recommend, therefore, that the provision under discussion be not repealed, so that the Bureau of the Census can continue to use the economical and effective method of having some work done by Federal employees who are already available for canvassing in relatively inaccessible places or who know local conditions, languages, and customs, and can therefore work for the Census efficiently at little extra expense to the Federal Government.

The Bureau of the Census is most anxious to have your consideration at the present time centered on the one urgent problem, namely, the need for an adequate authorization for industrial and business canvasses required immediately for national-defense purposes. I strongly recommend, therefore, that the essential content of the bill submitted to the Congress by the Secretary of Commerce be adhered to by the House of Representatives. It is suggested that H. R. 5232 or S. 1627 will in general terms attain the desired objectives.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Capt, before you proceed further on this bill, I am going to ask you the same question I put to Mr. May.

Mr. CAPT. What was that, sir?

The CHAIRMAN. That is with respect to the Census schedule that is agreed upon for the purpose of gathering information for the Defense Office of Production Management. That would be the adopted policy of the Census Bureau, without any commitment?

Mr. CAPT. According to long-established practice, Mr. Chairman, if O. P. M. or any other agency of the Government wished the Census Bureau to search out information for them, they naturally would submit to us a list of the questions that they wished propounded. We then would confer with our own people who are familiar with that sort of thing, and any other persons in public or private life who may have any interest whatever in the matter, and arrive at some decision with respect to the schedule. That schedule then would be submitted to the Division of Statistical Standards in the Budget Bureau for review. There isn't a single schedule of any sort that goes out of the Bureau of the Census until it has been reviewed by the Division of Statistical Standards in the Bureau of the Budget.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the policy.

Mr. CAPT. It has been ever since I have been in charge of the Bureau.

The CHAIRMAN. You would not have any hesitancy in submitting that as the definite policy of the Bureau?

Mr. CAPT. That is our policy already and will continue to be.

The CHAIRMAN. And whatever the Bureau of the Budget would decide you would be willing to abide by it?

Mr. CAPT. We would have to abide by it in the end. We might contend with it

The CHAIRMAN. I figured that would be the answer, but I wanted you to say it following his testimony.

Now, then, if you will proceed.

Mr. CAPT. First, Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring up something that occurred yesterday. The point was raised with respect to whether or not the controversial character of census records was by regulation or by law. I think it was remarked by some one that it was regulation

and not law.

The CHAIRMAN. That was I.

Mr. CAPT. At the moment I did not have a copy of the Fifteenth Decennial Census Act, so-called. I have it now in my hand. It is Public, No. 13, Seventy-first Congress: An act to provide for a fifteenth and subsequent decennial censuses.

Section 11 of that act reads as follows:

That the information furnished under the provisions of this Act shall be used only for the statistical purposes for which it is supplied. No publication shall be made by the Census Office whereby the data furnished by any particular establishment or individual can be identified, nor shall the Director of the Census permit any one other than the sworn employees of the Census Office to examine the individual reports.

That is definitely law.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose I call you on the telephone and undertook to identify Dr. Larabee and ask you what the birth record showed of Dr. Larabee, Census statistics for the year 1880?

Mr. CAPT. Under the law we would have to refuse to give it to you.

The CHAIRMAN. I have already identified Dr. Larabee. The law says you cannot identify him, but I have identified him.

Mr. CAPT. We cannot give you the information.

The CHAIRMAN. That is where you had the hitch. That is exactly the question that was raised. You cannot identify the individual, but I have identified Dr. Larabee. The law says you cannot identify him, but I have identified him If I ask about his birth record, ask you to find out what the census record shows is the date of his birth

Mr. MACIORA. I have had occasion to write the Census Bureau for information of that kind, and although I could not receive the information, the person for whom I wanted it received it directly.

The CHAIRMAN. But suppose he asks his Congressman to get it. Mr. CAPT. Mr. Chairman

Mr. MACIORA. They did ask me to get it, and while they would not give it to me, he received the information directly. It did not come through my office, but I was advised he received it.

Mr. CAPT. Well, you see, you had identified him. But the act goes on further and says we may not furnish any particular information about him. Dr. Larabee could send us an application or a letter, and sign it, and say that we can give you the information with respect to his record in 1880. Then we would give it to you on his signed request. Otherwise we could not. We get innumerable letters from Congressmen transmitting applications from their constituents, and whenever the applicant says, "Give this to the Congressman," we do it. When he says, "Give the information to the old-age assistance people in my State," we send it there. It depends on the applicant himself. We give it to him or anybody he designated in writing.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what brought up the argument in the committee before.

Mr. ALLEN. If a constituent of mine writes me for certain information, the thing for me to do is to write out an authorization for him to sign, directed to you, instructing you to give me that information?

Mr. CAPT. We have an application form that we will supply you that you may have a supply on hand if you wish. Unless the applicant signs such a request, information will go direct to him. If he signs such a request, we will gladly send information to whom ever he indicates.

Mr. ALLEN. Well, that is protecting the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. I just wanted to get that fact across.

Mr. CAPT. Yesterday when Mr. Taylor testified he referred to a letter which he had received and asked that it be put in the record. That letter is one dated October 7 from Richard O'Mara, addressed to Mr. Taylor, Under Secretary.

I wish to put that in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be made a part of the record. (The letter referred to is as follows:)

Senate 1627.

Mr. WAYNE C. TAYLOR,

LOS ANGELES, CALIF, October 7, 1941.

Under Secretary of Commerce, Department of Commerce,

Washington, D. C.

DEAR MR. TAYLOR: This will acknowledge and thank you for your comprehensive letter of September 25 outlining the purposes of Senate 1627.

I have reread the bill and also the House committee report by Senator Mead. I now have a clear understanding of the measure and no objection to its passage.

As a matter of fact, from the information given in your letter and the other documents, it seems to me that the bill will provide all of the statistical data needed over a period of time and also make some savings in the cost of accumulating the required basic statistics.

Í appreciate very much the opportunity mentioned in the last paragraph of your letter of discussing the bill with you in Washington, but do not feel that this is necessary now.

Thanks again for writing me as fully as you have.
Sincerely,

RICHARD O'MARA.

Mr. CAPT. There are many other documents here I would like to put in the record if I may.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, we will permit the Director of the Census to put them in.

Mr. CAPT. Here is a letter dated June 5, 1941, from the Acting Director of the Bureau of the Budget to the Secretary of Commerce, by which the Bureau of the Budget gave the Secretary of Commerce permission and approval to submit to the Congress this proposed legislation.

The next is a letter dated June 6 from the Secretary of Commerce to the Speaker of the House, by which he transmitted a draft of the bill as approved by this letter from the Acting Director of the Budget. Mr. ALLEN. Who transmitted it?

Mr. CAPT. The Secretary of Commerce to the Speaker of the House. Then there is the proposed draft of the legislation now in discussion which was authorized by the Bureau of the Budget in a previous letter. Mr. ALLEN. That is S. 1627?

Mr. CAPT. In substance. It has been changed a little bit in the Senate, but the changes are not material.

Along with this is a copy of the justification for the enactment of the legislation to provide for a biennial census of industry and business. Then I wish to submit a formal statement by the Director of the Census, which explains the whys and wherefores and the history leading up to this matter and the reasons and necessities for the legislation as submitted by the Secretary.

(The documents referred to are as follows:)

EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT,

BUREAU OF THE BUDGET, Washington, D. C., June 5, 1941.

The Honorable the SECRETARY OF COMMERCE. MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: I have your letter of May 24, 1941, transmitting two copies of a draft of proposed bill "To provide for a quinquennial census of industry and business and for the collection of current statistics by the Bureau of the Census," together with two copies of a proposed explanatory letter of transmittal to the President of the Senate.

One copy, each, of the draft of bill and the explanatory letter of transmittal is returned herewith, and you are advised that there would be no objection to the presentation thereof for the consideration of the appropritae committees of the Congress if modified in the following particulars: First, omit the second sentence

of section 17 (a); second, omit section 3; and third, revise section 4 of the draft (now sec. 3) to read as follows:

"That notwithstanding any other provision of law, any individual census report or any information contained therein may be used in connection with the national-defense program under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed, with the approval of the President, by the Secretary of Commerce. No person shall disclose or make use of any individual census report or any information contained therein contrary to such rules and regulations; and anyone violating this provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not exceeding $500 or be imprisoned not exceeding six months, or both.' It would be understood, of course, that the provisions of Budget Bureau Circulars 351 and 360 relating to the work of the Division of Statistical Standards of this Bureau would apply to operations under the proposed legislation.

Very truly yours,

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The Honorable the SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE,

Washington, D. C.

JUNE 6, 1941.

MY DEAR MR. SPEAKER: I am sending you herewith the draft of a bill "To provide for a quinquennial census of industry and business and for the collection of current statistics by the Bureau of the Census," together with an explanatory statement with respect thereto.

This legislation is necessary to provide sufficient authority for the Department of Commerce, through the Bureau of the Census, to perform its proper functions in the collection and compilation of statistical data essential to national defense. This legislation would also provide for the more even flow of statistical reports so essential to business and industry, as well as the Government, in this time of rapid change.

The essential factors of this proposal are as follows:

1. It provides for a complete census of manufactures, mines, and business at 5-year intervals, beginning with data for the calendar year 1943.

2. It eliminates the 1941 Census of Manufactures and substitutes therefor the collection of current or periodic data in the fields of manufacturing, mining, business, and such other subjects as may be found essential for national defense. It will thus be possible to secure much needed economic data this summer instead of a year hence.

3. The funds released by eliminating the 1941 Census of Manufactures can be made immediately available to finance this current statistical program without additional requests for appropriations at this time.

4. It will make possible the application of scientifically proved sampling techniques by the Bureau of the Census in the many phases of its work, thus reducing the costs of the collection and compilation of reliable data and increasing its timeliness.

The Department of Commerce and the Bureau of the Census have studied the administrative and legal inadequacies of the census program for several years. The present proposal is the first and most essential step toward attaining an even flow of information, eliminating the wasteful concentration of census work at the time of the decennial census of population, and providing authorization flexible enough to meet the needs of the Nation in time of war as well as in time of peace. I hope that it will be possible to expedite the enactment of this urgent legislation. The Bureau of the Budget has advised that there is no objection to the submission of this draft bill and letter to the Congress.

Sincerely yours,

(Signed)

JESSE H. JONES, Secretary of Commerce.

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