1. Name of company 2. Office address__. SECTION A. GENERAL INFORMATION 3. Location of refinery or cracking plant. 4. Type of plant 5. Railroad connections. 6. Pipe-line connections. 7. State whether refinery is operating, idle, or building 8. If idle, give approximate date of last operations_ 9. If building, or temporarily idle, give approximate date you expect to begin operations__. 10. If your plant has been sold (or leased), give purchaser's (or lessee's) name and address_ Please refer to instructions on reverse side of this form. 1 Please refer to instructions on reverse side of this form. • Calculated on basis of definition in paragraph (2) on reverse side of this form. In general, item 1+item 2-item 3-item 4. (1) Refineries are classified by "types" according to the products generally made. There are seven common types of refineries—namely, skimming, skimming and lube, complete, skimming and asphalt, lube, asphalt, and topping. (2) By "crude-oil capacity" of a refinery is meant the maximum daily average crude throughput attainable under normal conditions with allowance for downtime, cleaning, inspections, repairs, and break-downs. Normal conditions imply contemplated grades of crude run for contemplated types of products finished to the extent customary to that refinery. (3) By "cracked gasoline capacity" of a refinery is meant the maximum daily average of cracked gasoline attainable under normal conditions with allowance for downtime, cleaning, inspections, repairs, and break-downs. Normal conditions imply contemplated grades of charging stocks run for contemplated types of products finished to the extent customary to that refinery. This figure should include the total possible gasoline production of the refinery except for straight-run gasoline (not reformed) and natural gasoline used in blends. In the case of such equipment as combination units the cracked gasoline capacity should not include that portion of the straight-run gasoline content of the crude which is not reformed. Mr. CAPT. Now, Mr. Chairman, doesn't it actually appear that the Bureau of Mines is trying to have written into law by its proposed amendment, legal approval for what it has already done without adequate sanction of law? However, over and above all these things is the one most important fact of all, that if this legislation is amended as proposed by the Secretary of the Interior it will serve to scatter the Government's census activities more than ever and thereby inevitably increase the number of questionnaires sent out to businessmen by Government agencies, which will surely result in additional complaints coming to you and other gentlemen of the Congress from your constituents. Moreover, if the amendment proposed for the benefit of the Bureau of Mines is written into law it will establish a precedent for further requests to the Congress of like character. Finally, Mr. Chairman, after very serious and thoughtful consideration we must in good conscience, most respectfully urge with all the earnestness at our command that the Congress pass this legislation, without further change, in accordance with the recommendations made to it by Secretary Jones. Together with the Secretary, we of the Department of Commerce and the Bureau of the Census honestly and sincerely believe such legislation to be a pressing need in this time of world turmoil and hard national necessity. It is to be hoped also that the Congress will act with as little delay as possible, while at the same time taking whatever period may be necessary for full and careful consideration of the measure. Time is valuable. World disaster is being heaped upon world disaster. The Secretary's suggestion to the Congress was made on June 6, 1941, so you see that almost 5 months have elapsed since the need for this legislation became apparent. Delays of this character in the functioning of democratic government, in which we all believe so fervently, must be a source of delight to Hitler and his associated cutthroats while at the same time there is surely created in the minds of friendly peoples all over the world grave doubts and misgivings about the efficiency and capacity of democratic processes. Now, Mr. Chairman, I will be glad to try to answer any questions that are asked of me. The CHAIRMAN. I might say, Mr. Capt, it is my conception of the testimony of Secretary Dempsey, there is no allegation the Bureau of Mines as such was functioning for 60 years, because he distinctly referred to the predecessor, the Bureau of Geological Survey. I happened to be sitting alongside him when he said it, and I also remember that the Bureau of Geological Survey issued a very unsatisfactory report on some deposits in Jacks Mountain in Pennsylvania, as I remember, back some thirty years ago. I know that Mr. Dempsey specifically referred to the Bureau of the Geological Survey. I want to say, as chairman of this committee, and I believe that I voice the frank sentiments of every Member of Congress, that insofar as the Bureau of the Budget or any other branch of the Administration feeling that the representatives of the Interior Department had come here without their authority or sanction, that they are free to come here, and, in fact, they came by my invitation as chairman of the committee. Are there any questions? Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Capt, the Bureau of Mines recently published a little document entitled, I believe, "Manganese in New Mexico." Mr. CAPT. I am not familiar with it. Mr. ANDERSON. It was just a little statistical study dealing with conditions down in that section, and probably very valuable to the State, and I imagine of equal value to the manganese industry, and I wonder whether it would be your plan to substitute some other document or publication for that or would they continue to publish what they are now issuing? Mr. CAPT. Mr. Anderson, as I tried to make plain in my statement, the Bureau of the Census has no desire to take over anything that has to do with the technical data on mining or inspection of mines, safety of mines, health of miners, or anything having to do with data industry of that kind. We are not equipped to do it and we would not want to do it if Congress authorized it, because we could not do it. Mr. ANDERSON. What about the Minerals Yearbook? Mr. CAPT. We have no desire to interfere with that. Mr. ANDERSON. It is not a proper function of your Bureau? Mr. CAPT. So far as we are concerned, no; we confine ourselves to the manufacturing statistical end of the Yearbook subject matter. Mr. ANDERSON. Some years ago I was interested in the development of a coal mine in my own State; since 1921 I struggled along with it up until a short time ago when the natural-gas industry developed, but during that time there was a statistical report put out by the Bureau of Mines concerning the amount of coal mined, prices received, what was done with it, and so forth. Do you have any desire to take over the collection of those statistics? Mr. CAPT. We do not want to have anything to do with it. Mr. ANDERSON. You feel that belongs to the Bureau of Mines? Mr. CAPT. We do, yes; or the Bituminous Coal Division. The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions? If not we thank you, Mr. Capt. Mr. CAPT. Thank you. FURTHER STATEMENT OF W. D. MURPHY The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Murphy, is there something you want to say in response to the additional statements? Mr. MURPHY. I would like to ask the indulgence of the committee for a very few minutes to just highlight one or two points that I would like to cover, and to make a little clearer our position in regard to some of the testimony of Dr. Reed this morning. He brought out the fact that we are, as a group, or that our organization was not in position to speak for industry; that there were 185,000 manufacturers, and that we represented a very small part of them. Now I do not think Dr. Reed himself will maintain that all of the 185,000 manufacturers in this country use statistical data of this character. There are certain types of progressive firms which do and they represent, to a large extent, the types of firms which want this information from the Government, and I would like to read just one sentence in support of that statement from an address made by Mr. Newell L. White in 1938, who was formerly in the Research Division of the Bureau, in which he said: For two decades the searchlight of research and investigation has been reporting new finds and markets of consumer goods, but only with the rise of the use of the organization, the National Industrial Advertisers Association, has the marketing of industrial goods been carried forward. That, it would seem to me, would meet the comment from the Department of Commerce about our position in the industrial marketing field. Now it was mentioned at the legislative committee of the National Association of Manufacturers approved this bill with the modification that it should be terminated at the end of the period of the emergency. I would like to call you gentlemen's attention to the fact that the National Association of Manufacturers is not primarily concerned with the marketing of industrial or business goods; that it is more concerned with the production and administration of business enterprise, and that their legislative committee is not in any way competent to pass upon marketing problems. As a matter of fact, I myself took up this program with Mr. Fulmer and others in their organization and they did not know what it was all about. It has been stated that the many should be favored rather than the few. On account of the time limit now I am not going to read in detail what has been furnished for the consumer, or small businessman, whose interest Dr. Reed defended so very well, and justly so, but there is a tremendous amount of material which has been gathered monthly and yearly concerning the conduct of business for the use of business enterprise. I would like to add, however, a paragraph from this same address of Dr. White in which he said: Finally over 1,100 manufacturers are now submitting similar figures, on a monthly basis, including most manufacturers of industrial machinery equipment and supplies. Because of the intricate classifications which are involved we have made less advance in this than either of the other two fields, which are distribution and business, but with the support and cooperation of the members of this association, if they value this type of information, we should be able to advance this work much more rapidly in the future. So, that need was felt as far back as 1938 of getting at least information on an equitable basis with the data which were furnished to business and distribution. This idea of pressing in all census enumeration on a 5-year basis is exactly like taking bananas and eggs and bread and mixing them up and saying you have a wholesome food. In my association we are not primarily concerned with the census of business, although the business does touch all fields; but we are concerned, however, with the census of manufactures and it is that which we want maintained on a biennial basis. There was a great deal said about the retail business and about the necessity for bringing it from a 10-year to a 5-year basis. I am very glad that that is being done. I would like to call your attention to the fact, however, that there has been no great cry of approval from businessmen on this proposition; none to my knowledge have testified before this committee from that group, from the industrial side. The whole proposition in the bill comes, it seems, from within the organization of the Department itself. Mr. ANDERSON. Have you had much evidence that the national chamber of commerce, or any branch of it, is opposed to this bill? Mr. MURPHY. Not so far as I know. Mr. ANDERSON. Have they indicated they were in favor of it? Mr. MURPHY. So far as I can see, this breaks itself down into specialists for the marketing of manufactured products. Now the United States Chamber of Commerce operates on a much broader basis than that, and so far as I know they have no set-up to study marketing problems. As the president of the only marketing association in the industrial field that I know of, I have also cooperated with the United States Chamber of Commerce and have not found any plan in which their interests touch in that sense. They are interested in much larger matters, dealing with restrictions and business administration and business policy rather than the marketing of goods. Mr. ANDERSON. What I am getting at is the manufacturer pays taxes. Mr. MURPHY. That is right. Mr. ANDERSON. And he employs people. Mr. MURPHY. That is right. Mr. ANDERSON. He is the fellow who is going to be put out of business. Mr. MURPHY. Yes. Mr. ANDERSON. You have not heard any statement from them along that line. Mr. MURPHY. The manufacturer, however, hires specialists to do work for him; that is the purpose of the specialist, just as the manufacturer does his own work. Mr. ANDERSON. You represent the advertising agency? Mr. MURPHY. No; I do not represent the advertising agency. I represent some 1,700 men in all branches of industrial marketing. I am not speaking as an advertising agency representative. Mr. ANDERSON. I went through the list the other day and I recognized why that would not be the case. Mr. MURPHY. For your benefit, Mr. Anderson, I wired our secretary for the list of our members, by companies, by locations as to States, and if you want to know what the membership in California, or for Illinois or Maryland, or other States, I can give it to you today. I could not have done it yesterday without considerable confusion, but I have that information today. Dr. Reed said that perhaps less than half of the list had taken a vital interest in a census of business or a census of distribution. I will confess that I cannot place swords with Dr. Reed on the matter of marketing research, and I am not in any way trying to match his acedemic attainments, but I think I represent more nearly the class of people who actually use the material, and I think he went pretty far when he said that statistical men ride their hobby. We are not statistical men in business; we do not know a great deal about these involved matters of research; we are the men who use the information that is wanted. And I am wondering if that is the preface of a desire on the part of the Census Bureau to educate the manufacturers of the United States in their research. If so that is going to be a pretty costly program. There has been a good deal said about getting more information about business and we have no objection to that whatever, or of bringing the census down to a 5-year basis; nor to a census of distribution, even though we may not be primarily interested in that phase of it. There is one point, however, that I would like to bring out in connection with the suggestion that the census be on a biennial instead of a 5-year basis. It will give us timely information. Some point was made about the census being taken if the Secretary felt that it is in the interest of the public good. I heard a good deal of discussion this morning about whether this measure is a defense |