Mr. KINZER. So this legislation would not help your industry at all? You are taking that position? Mr. WRIGHT. No; I am not taking that position. Mr. KINZER. Well, if it were helpful to your industry, why should you object to cooperating to the extent of furnishing informaton that might be required to help your industry? Mr. WRIGHT. I am taking the position that we are furnishing now the information that is requested of our industry promptly and willingly. Mr. KINZER. Then you have no need for this legislation, is that right? Mr. WRIGHT. As applied to minerals, which are already beautifully taken care of by the Bureau of Mines. Yes, if there is anything that would help them to get better funds, or something like that, and perhaps do a little more elaborate job, or a more helpful job, I would say "fine." But I do not see any necessity for anything that is competitive with the information they now collect. Of course, this information, it is claimed, is supplementary rather than competitive to the information they now put out in the Yearbook. I hope that is true, and I agree with Mr. Conover that it should be provided in the act by statute, if that is the case. That is all I have to say, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. If there are no questions, the witness will be excused. STATEMENT OF JOHN D. BATTLE, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, NATIONAL COAL ASSOCIATION, REPRESENTING THE PRODUCERS OF BITUMINOUS COAL Mr. BATTLE. Mr. Chairman, I am going to be very brief. I endorse most heartily the statements of Mr. Dempsey and Mr. Conover. To sum it up, please let the Bureau of Mines alone. We have dealt with them for all these years; we live by the week, by the month, on these statistics. With all due deference to the Census Bureauthey are doing the job well-we never use them. The Bureau of Mines is our contact, and the Bituminous Coal Division. Perhaps no industry in America is required to furnish more information today than the bituminous-coal industry. Every detail of its business is in the hands of the Government. These reports are made weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly, and they are vital to us. I do hope that these amendments suggested by the Under Secretary will be adopted. We do not feel we ought to be imposed on any more by having to fill out any more questionnaires for anybody. Thank you, gentlemen; that is all I have to say for the producers of bituminous coal. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions? Mr. TALLE. In other words, you do not want any of the "canary birds" mentioned by Secretary Dempsey? Mr. BATTLE. We are getting along all right; the Bureau of Mines is getting along all right, so let us alone. If there are no more questions, I thank you. The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Battle; we thank you for coming. Mr. Dempsey, we have some other people coming who want to testify; and, Dr. Sayers, I suppose you wanted to say something more? Dr. SAYERS. Would you like me to say something else? The CHAIRMAN. I would, but the bells have rung, and we are without authority to proceed. Congressman Kramer was very anxious. to be here when you gentlemen were here, and therefore I will let you know if he will be able to be here tomorrow. He has not returned from downtown, where he was called to one of the departments. I want to say for the benefit of the members of the committee that a number of telegrams from a number of different industries have been received, as well as air-mail letters, some addressed to different members of the committee. As chairman, I have been trying to get responses off to them as rapidly as they are received. It may be necessary, in order to show proper consideration to these different people who are contacting so many different Members of Congress, that we will have to postpone the hearings until some of those folks who really want to come may be heard. I have a communication here from Lewis H. Wessinger, president of Foltz-Wessinger, Inc., of Lancaster, Pa., to Congressman Kinzer, which, without objection, will be included in the record. (The letter referred to is as follows:) Re S. 1627, H. R. 5232, and H. R. 5139. United States House of Representatives, FOLTZ-WESSINGER, INC., Lancaster, Pa., October 18, 1941. Washington, D. C. DEAR MR. KINZER: As the advertising, merchandising, and sales-promotion representative of six industrial manufacturing companies in and adjacent to Lancaster County, we wish to protest against the above-named proposed legislation. The specific provision which would change the Census of Manufacturers from a 2-year basis to a 5-year basis would work to the definite disadvantage of those organizations who plan their selling activities and therefore their entire manufacturing operation-c -on facts. Two years is a relatively long time in our constantly changing economic state. Five years between censuses would make much of the available information obsolete and valueless long before another census would be due. In reading the principal provisions of this proposed legislation, it is apparent that the cost of the 5-year census would be no less, over a period of time, than the present 2-year census. The value of the additional information to be provided will not begin to equal the value of the salient facts provided now-fresh every 2 years. The proposed sampling substitute will not show many important and usable economic changes. For those companies that we represent, as well as for the welfare of industry generally, we urge you as a member of the House Census Committee to oppose this proposed legislation. Very truly yours, The CHAIRMAN. We will recess at this time to await the call of the Chair. (Whereupon, at 12:05 p. m., the committee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.) QUINQUENNIAL CENSUS THURSDAY, OCTOBER 23, 1941 COMMITTEE ON THE CENSUS, The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Guy L. Moser, (chairman), presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. FURTHER STATEMENT OF DR. R. R. SAYERS, DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF MINES The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions that anyone wants to ask of Dr. Sayers? Mr. Kinzer, do you want to ask any questions? Mr. KINZER. No. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any questions you want to ask of Dr. Sayers? Mr. HARRIS. No. Mr. ALLEN. I was not here yesterday when Dr. Sayers testified. I am sorry I was unavoidably absent. You are with the Bureau of Mines? Dr. SAYERS. Yes. Mr. ALLEN. Do I understand that the Bureau of Mines is objecting to this bill as it is written? Dr. SAYERS. We are in accord with the principles of the bill, but we feel that we are concerned with the duplications certain provisions of the bill authorize and the resultant harassment of industry and inefficiency of the work. We believe that the work we are now turning out is satisfactory to the industries, and gives industry what is needed. If anything additional is needed it can be done with moderate expansion. Mr. ALLEN. Doctor, it is my understanding, if I am wrong I want you to correct me freely, it is my understanding that at the present time you get certain data and the Bureau of the Census gets certain data. That is correct; is it not? Dr. SAYERS. That is correct. Mr. ALLEN. Now, if I am correctly informed, this bill would still permit you to go ahead and get the data that you now get and would not interfere with you? I want to be corrected on that if I am wrong. Dr. SAYERS. Yes; this will interfere to this extent. To start out with, the Bureau of Mines and its predecessor, the Geological Survey, have collected certain statistics annually for 60 years. These are presented regularly in the annual volumes of Minerals Yearbook, a series of publications that is available to all. We stated yesterday that we believed the data in Minerals Yearbook to be the best available statistics on minerals in the world. Mr. ALLEN. My point is Dr. SAYERS. May I go ahead, if you please? Mr. ALLEN. Yes. Dr. SAYERS. We also publish monthly reports, quarterly reports, and semiannual reports, and some special surveys in addition. The Census Bureau, as I understand, is authorized to collect decennial statistics. That comes every tenth year. It was stated yesterday by one witness that it would be possible to add up the data published annually by the Bureau of Mines, to obtain the data needed for 5-and 10-year censuses and if additional information is needed for census these could be collected at relatively small cost by the Bureau of Mines and it would be unnecessary to have the decennial census. The quinquennial census would double the amount of work and double the duplication. We submitted yesterday exhibits of actual questionnaires used by the Bureau of Mines and the Census Bureau showing where the same questions are asked of the individual twice. This is from two governmental organizations. It would seem to be unnecessary. It is a duplication of effort. We have had very friendly and cordial relationships with the Census Bureau over a period of years. We have detailed personnel to the Census Bureau. We have given them access and still give them access to our data. Their sworn representatives are permitted to have access to the data because they are Government employees and are sworn to secrecy the same as we are. It is confidential. There is no friction on that at all. It would seem that a cooperative arrangement would be satisfactory. It seems to have been in the past, and we hope it will continue in the future. We have aimed to make it so. Mr. ALLEN. The point I am trying to make clear, Doctor, is how would this bill as it now stands prevent you from doing what you have been doing? Dr. SAYERS. It seems to direct someone else to do the same thing in a quinquennial census and current periodical surveys to obtain the same data. Mr. ALLEN. This bill does not prevent you from doing that? Dr. SAYERS. We have tried to provide for that duplication by cooperation. But this bill authorizes them to do this work which we have been directed to do and have been doing for a period of 60 years in the Department of the Interior. Mr. ALLEN. I am simply trying to get clear in my mind because I understood this bill will not conflict with what you are doing. That is what I want to get clear in my mind. Dr. SAYERS. So far as it can be seen, it will conflict. That is, it will give authorization. The Census people assure us they will not duplicate our work and I have no reason to question-they are all acquaintances and friends of mine over there. But after all, I am assuming that someone else will come in later and here is a definite authorization to undertake work. It would seem that it would lead to confusion and duplication and irritation and harassment of industry. There would be confusion among our groups and unnecessary dupli |