(Witness: True.)

assistants, but, of course, every assistant that is taken on involves an increase of salary and other expenses. There are the expenses of the men who are subjects, and the chemical and other necessary supplies. What we do is to figure out, as well as we can, what a man can do with a given amount of money, and we expect him to do that amount of work and to make a report on it within a reasonable time. Of course, besides making the experiments he has to make all the calculations in relation to it, and then write the matter up for publication.

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose the writing up of the subject-matter of an examination like that does involve the consumption of a great deal of time.

Doctor TRUE. Making the calculations and writing them up is a time-consuming task.

The CHAIRMAN. The making of the calculations? Are we to understand that there are so many chemical examinations on one individual with one article that it takes about all the time of a man during the time that experiment is going on? Of course if that is a fact, that shows a sufficient reason why one man could not do both of these things. Of course one man can only do what he can. Doctor TRUE. Yes; that is so.

The CHAIRMAN. How many chemical examinations would ordinarily have to be made during the time, under those circumstances? Doctor TRUE. I could not answer that.

The CHAIRMAN. Is not that a set proposition? Do you not make an analysis of food; and then what other analysis is there except the analysis of the feces and of the urine?

Doctor TRUE. Those are the two.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they analyze the urine?

Doctor TRUE. In some cases.

The CHAIRMAN. That depends upon the character of the food being tested?

Doctor TRUE. Upon the character of the study.

The CHAIRMAN. Then there are three examinations?

Doctor TRUE. My difficulty is this; that I do not follow up the details of this work sufficiently to keep in mind matters of that sort. The CHAIRMAN. I see; then you have to depend on some one else to look out for that?

Doctor TRUE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you anyone who is thoroughly familiar with that work as a practical operative proposition, anybody here in Washington that you could reach?

Doctor TRUE. Yes; we have an expert here who looks after the general interests of that work.

The CHAIRMAN. Who has conducted the experiments himself?
Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate your embarrassment now, because you have not had the direct personal charge of experiments of that sort, as I understand it.

Doctor TRUE. No.

The CHAIRMAN. We may want to examine him.

Mr. SAMUEL. Do you examine or do you experiment as to the rel

(Witness: True. )

ative effect of eating small meals frequently, compared with three full meals a day, on digestion and nutrition?

Doctor TRUE. I do not remember that we have covered that particular point, although possibly we may have.

Mr. SAMUEL. Have you ever investigated as to the effect of fast compared with slow eating as affecting digestion?

The CHAIRMAN. That includes mastication and the generation of saliva?

Doctor TRUE. Yes; to a certain limited extent. We had in the calorimeter last year a gentleman who claimed that slow mastication and very thorough mastication will increase the digestibility of food.

The CHAIRMAN. When you say "slow mastication" do you mean mastication continued over quite a period of time-that is, not the operation of the jaws slowly, but long-continued chewing?

Doctor TRUE. Long-continued chewing.

The CHAIRMAN. When you say "slow mastication," that is what you mean?

Doctor TRUE. Yes. This man claimed that that would increase the digestibility, and that therefore a person doing that could live on a relatively small quantity of food. He was put in this calorimeter and given the amount of food which he thought he ought to have, and he went through his usual mode of eating it, and it turned out that that amount of food was not sufficient to maintain his body. He lost in body weight during the time of the experiment, and the general conclusion of our expert was that this slow mastication had no appreciable effect upon the absolute digestibility of food.

Mr. SAMUEL. Did you experiment with him eating fast on the same amount of food to see what effect it would have?

Doctor TRUE. I do not remember that that was done.

Mr. SAMUEL. That would be the only way to get at a concrete result, would it not?

Doctor TRUE. We compared him with other individuals who ate in the usual way.

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose there is a stage in connection with food where perfect mastication is reached. And is it your judgment that until that is reached you do not facilitate digestion to the fullest extent, but that mastication beyond that is of no appreciable advantage? Do I make that clear?

Doctor TRUE. Yes. But that is not quite the result. The result seems to indicate that the mastication of food in any way has relatively little effect on its absolute digestibility; that if you eat your food hurriedly, bolt it down quickly, and it goes down in relatively large pieces, the digestive apparatus will work it up, and the final outcome will be just as much energy and supply of tissue to the body as if you spent a considerable time in chewing.

Mr. SAMUEL. Does that apply to all kinds of food?
Doctor TRUE. That would apply generally.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, you would make no differentiation between meats and fruits?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir; not so far as I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. Then this notion that has prevailed with more or less persistence, that thorough mastication was necessary in order to

(Witness: True.)

maintain a healthy stomach and properly facilitate digestion, has not much foundation in fact?

Doctor TRUE. You say "maintain a healthy stomach." I am speaking simply of the absolute digestibility of the food.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you get perfect digestibility with a condition that impairs the stomach in its function?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a physical proposition?

Doctor TRUE. A man can live pretty well without any stomach, you know. There are such cases.

The CHAIRMAN. Does the fact, then, of digestion and the maintenance of the condition of the stomach indicate long mastication and more thorough chewing?

Doctor TRUE. The point is this, that in dealing with a healthy subject in a temporary way, you can neglect the matter of mastication. The food will be dige-ted fully, as fully as under other conditions; but we have not shown, and do not pretend to have shown, that if you bolted your food without chewing it much that would not have a bad effect on the digestive apparatus, and after a time produce digestive disturbances. The trouble with us in discussing this subject is that in the minds of most people the term "digestion" is used in two senses, and most frequently when you and I talk about digestion we mean ease of digestion. We eat something for lunch and it does not digest well with us; we have a disagreeable time in getting rid of it, and we say that that food is indigestible. That is a common phrase. Now, that may not be so at all. The food that hurts you in going through the alimentary canal may be just as fully digested in the end as the food that goes through smoothly and quietly; so that we have to distinguish all the time, in our work, between ease of digestion and absolute digestibility.

The CHAIRMAN. You measure those things by the units of energy developed?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Rather than the impairment of the functions of the stomach in the development of the units?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And when we speak of digestion generally your suggestion is that we combine both of those factors to make up the equation?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Have your instruments demonstrated whether it is wise or unwise to have digestion take place during the shortest possible period of time? I suppose if the food is thoroughly masticated it facilitates the speed of digestion, does it not?

Doctor TRUE. It may, as regards stomach digestion; that would depend to a certain extent on the kind of food. There is also digestion in the intestines, which is very important. The coarser food is likely to stir up the alimentary canal more, and it may pass through more quickly, and yet under certain conditions it may hinder digestion. That is a subject that I would not pretend to speak on as an expert.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. You are examining foods all the time with respect to the effects on the human and animal kind; that is, dis

(Witness: True.)

tinguished from horses and cattle-they are all parts of the animal kingdom-but you do examine with respect to cattle?

Doctor TRUE. No; we do not have anything to do with cattle. The CHAIRMAN. Do you make any investigations in connection with cattle?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir; the experiment stations do, but we do not. The CHAIRMAN. You do not?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir. What I said was that our experiments with the human being have proved useful to the experiment stations in their experiments on animals because these forms of experiments can be adapted to use with animals.

The CHAIRMAN. Is not experimentation with reference to the nutrition of cattle more in the line of the Department of Agriculture that experiments in reference to mankind?

Doctor TRUE. Yes; more directly.

The CHAIRMAN. How does it happen that you are going along with a more indirect line of inquiry?

Doctor TRUE. Because it has been held that the agricultural products of the country should be utilized in the best way, and our studies have to do with the economy of consumption of foods.

The CHAIRMAN. In your investigations do you aim to determine how much food is necessary in order properly to sustain and nourish the body, or do you go as far as that?

Doctor TRUE. Yes; on the basis of our studies, and those of other investigators abroad, there have been established certain so-called standards for dietaries, so that if a dietary is desired for a particular purpose we can tell with some accuracy what amounts of food are required and how to combine those. For example, your lumbermen down in Maine eat and require a very much larger diet, a more generous diet in amounts of energy than persons engaged in clerical work or in moderate physical work. Now, we can tell in a general way how the diet should be varied according to the occupation.

The CHAIRMAN. Has it been your experience that the public avails itself of this information in determining its manner of living and the kind and quality of food products and the quantities in which they are cooked and served?

Doctor TRUE. That is being done to an increasing extent, although it is by no means the general practice yet.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not remember having known of anybody doing it; but how are you people to determine how that is being done. to an increasing extent.

Doctor TRUE. It is done in a considerable number of public institutions. It is done, of course, in the Army and in the Navy.

The CHAIRMAN. That has been going on in the Army and Navy, of course, for years.

Doctor TRUE. Yes; and we have aided them, as I think they will say, to a considerable extent in determining what the ration should be.

The CHAIRMAN. Do not the best works on physiology treat of precisely that subject?

Doctor TRUE. Oh, yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And give, in connection with all the staple articles, the nutritive values?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

(Witness: True.)

The CHAIRMAN. And the relative quantity properly to be used? Doctor TRUE. Yes; but those are not final figures. Those are simply the best available figures that the authors had. The more recent

works on physiology are including the results of our work.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what I was going to inquire about. Those figures are the results of scientific investigation on the part of private individuals, in the main, I suppose?

Doctor TRUE. In the main; or of foreign institutions.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Are those utilized in your Bureau in any way in making your investigations?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. In what way?

Doctor TRUE. We have acquainted ourselves with the information given by scientific men and institutions that have worked along these Fines, and are now supplementing and completing their work. It is not our desire to do anything that has been worked out.

The CHAIRMAN. How many articles of food have you experimented with and analyzed, with reference to their nutritive values, the nutritive qualities of which have not been mentioned or stated in these physiological works?

Doctor TRUE. A considerable number. Take the matter of these breakfast foods that have been coming in so rapidly.

The CHAIRMAN. Those are very recent.

Doctor TRUE. Yes; recent.

The CHAIRMAN. I am speaking now of the staple articles of food. That would include the breads and meats and the commonest and best-known fruits.

Doctor TRUE. Probably we would find something in the books about all those; but in many cases that would not rest on the basis of any reliable or accurate investigation.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you compared the results of your examinations with the statements that are found in these various physiological authorities?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What, as a rule, do you find to be the difference, if any; or do you in the main agree with them?

Doctor TRUE. In some cases, I judge, we agree and in other cases we do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Have there been any marked discrepancies in the results reached in your Bureau and the results stated in these works in connection with articles of general use and value?

Doctor TRUE. In some cases there have been. Take, for example, the matter of fruits, certain common fruits. We have probably obtained more data regarding those than have ever been collated before, and these data show that they have a more definite nutritive value than has heretofore been supposed.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, their content of nutritive qualities was larger than was supposed before; that is what you mean? I am not familiar with the technique of your profession. Is that what you mean by the word "definite?"

Doctor TRUE. I fear that I do not make this subject quite so clear as I would if I were an expert in this particular line. I speak in somewhat general terms and do not claim to have expert knowledge.