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(Witness: Halvorsen.)

Mr. HALVORSEN. Oh, no. The National Museum report this time is about an inch thick. Instead of that it used to be a book as large as that, or even larger (indicating a volume about 24 inches thick].

The Chairman. Could you give any approximation as to how much duplication there is in this accumulation which you have on hand ?

Mr. HALVORSEN. It is hard to say how much duplication there is.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is this large accumulation of approximately 2,000,000 volumes stored?

Mr. HALVORSEN. In the different vaults that we have.
The CHAIRMAN. About the Capitol ?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Partly in the Capitol and partly at the Annex, near North Capitol street.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that in a building owned by the Government, or does the Government have to rent it?

Mr. HALVORSEN. That we rent.

The CHAIRMAN. Under what Department of the Government would the rental of that building come, for instance? That is, what Department of the Government would have charge of the expenditure of money for that purpose ?

Mr. HALVORSEN. The renting is done through the Clerk of the House.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what it costs for rental for that storage purpose?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I am not sure, but I did see an account of it, and the account was rendered, I think, in the Clerk's report.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you ascertain for us, so that you can put it in as an answer to the question?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you rent it through another Department?

Mr. HALVORSEN. It is rented through the Clerk of the House for the purpose of doing the folding for our office, as well as a storage room for some of the documents that we can not store in our vaults in the Capitol.

The Chairman. But it is used for two purposes--for operative and for storage purposes?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Flood. It is a case of one Department of the Government renting from another Department, then?

The CHAIRMAN. Apparently; but we can find out. Is that the way you understand it?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I could not say as to that-as to how the arrangement is; but I think there is a party, whether he has any connection with the Government or not I could not say—but certainly rent is paid out of the contingent fund to this party.

The CHAIRMAN. You can ascertain this amount for us?
Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes; I can ascertain the amount.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be kind enough to ascertain for us the amount, and the party from whom the building is rented, and the circumstances under which the arrangement is made, and submit that as an answer to that question, so that we can put that right into the report?

(Witness: Halvorsen.)

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir. Of course the detailed account of that you might be more able to ascertain through the Clerk of the House.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McDowell?
Mr. HALVORSEN. Or the Chief Clerk, Mr. Browning:

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Browning; yes. We can do that, unless you can get it for us.

Mr. HALVORSEN. That will be all right.

The answer is as follows: The rental is $5,000 per annum, and is paid to one Wilbur Nash, of this city, from the contingent fund by The Clerk of the House. The property is owned by Mr. Nash.

The CHAIRMAN. What has been the experience of the folding room in connection with the storage of these public documents, part of them bound in cloth and part in sheep, as to the durability and utility of the several bindings? That is, which lasts the longer?

Mr. HALVORSEN. The more expensive binding naturally lasts the longer. Some of these documents that come to us for Members are not bound as well as they ought to be, but possibly as well bound as the bindery can afford for the money expended.

The CHAIRMAX. The point is, is there any distinction between the sheep and cloth with reference to their durability?

Mr. HALVORSEN. I think so.
Mr. Flood. First-class cloth?
The CHAIRMAN. That is, assuming both to be equally well bound.

Mr. HALVORSEN. I think that the binding is as good as it can be as well as it can be done, covering the expenses of either one or the other class.

The CHAIRMAN. Which lasts the longer, the sheep or the cloth? Mr. HALVORSEN. I think the sheep will naturally last the longer.

Mr. Flood. Is it not a fact that the cloth that is used by the Government Printing Office is very inferior in quality!

Mr. HALVORSEN. I am not able to judge as to the quality of the material. I am not a binder, and I am not able to say, but we know that the binding is poorer than it really ought to be, especially on some documents.

Mr. SAMUEL. Have you any authority to dispose of the accumulated documents?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No; we have no authority delegated to us, except to keep the account and meet the demands of the Members on their credits.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not make any sales?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No; we can not do that. The documents are prorated to each district, and at the disposal of each Member representing, respectively.

Mr. SAMUEL. If there are any documents that are old and of no value, you have no way of doing away with them, either by calls from a Member, or by sale?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No, sir. The only way we do about that is this: You have had some experience, perhaps-you have heard from our office urging the disposition of some of those documents. We try in every way to get rid of accumulation that is possible, without imposing too much on the generosity of the Members. We want to get them off our hands.

(Witness: Halvorsen.)

The CHAIRMAN. Every little while we get an installment of books, bound

up, that we never have heard from before. I suppose that is the result of an effort on the part of somebody to get rid of this congestion, is it not-to bind the material and get it out?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No; we only handle the books that come to us for Members' credit. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Everything that you have in the folding room either is now or has been subject to the order of some Congressman?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAX. The rule is, I suppose, where a Congressman goes out and another Congressman comes in from the same district, to put on to his quota whatever has not been exhausted by the previous Congressman ?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that theoretically, at least, every Member of the House ought to have at his disposal his proportion that has not been exhausted of this vast accumulation?

Mr. IIALVORSEN. The documents are considered to belong to his respective district, and are at his disposal.

The CHAIRMAN. The Member representing the district for the time being?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I think that covers everything I wish to ask.

Mr. SAMUEL. Have you an accumulation of yearbooks and horse books?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes; we have an accumulation of both, though we are getting rid of the old yearbooks very well, and could get rid of more if we only had the authority to dispose of them or could be delegated the authority to dispose of them. Some Members want yearbooks, and some Members are in want of horse books, and have none to credit. The only way we can help him is to say frankly that, If you will apply to some of the older Members, they may possibly help you.” We do not intend to impose upon the Members by giving the names of Members having some to credit. We simply say; " Apply to some of the older Members, and see if you can get them from them."

Mr. SAMUEL. There is no way, then, in which a Member can get an old document, except in that way?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No, sir.
Mr. SUEL. Unless it happens to be in his quota ?

Mr. HALVORSEN. No. We do not give information in our department directly,

as to whom of the Members have these books, without Members' consent.

Mr. SAMUEL. You say that long ago they were credited to the district ?

Mr. HALVORSEN. Yes, sir; they were credited to the district.

Mr. SAMUEL. If there were any documents that were not distributed by any of the Member's predecessors, he could have those books to his credit, could he?

Mr. Halvorsen. The present Member has the books to his credit. The account is transferred from one Congress to another, in a new set of books; and at the head of each account, followed by the dis

23818—07—4

(Witnesses: Halvorsen, Zappone, Hill.)

trict, is the name of the Member representing that district; so whatever has been left by his predecessor is at his disposal.

Mr. SAMUEL. Does that only apply to the immediate predecessor, or to previous ones!

Mr. HALVORSEN. To any present Member to whom they may be handed down.

Mr. SAMUEL. How does a Member ascertain what is to his credit? By going to the folding room?

Mr. HALVORSEN. You may have a statement every sixty days showing all the credits upon request.

Mr. SAMUEL. That statement as sent from the folding room covers all credits in the folding room?

Mr. HALVORSEN. It covers all credits at the time.

Mr. ZAPPCXE. Mr. Chairman, before closing the record on the subject of the printing of public documents pertaining to the Department of Agriculture, I would like to suggest that you send for the Chief of the Division of Publications of the Department of Agriculture. . He has had probably twenty years' experience, and I think he can answer many of the questions that you have asked that have not been answered satisfactorily.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a first-rate suggestion. We will be very glad to do that.

Mr. ZAPPONE. And he can also give you the cost of these various publications, and their value to the public.

(It was ordered that the gentleman referred to, Mr. George Wm. Hill, Chief of the Division of Publications, should be sent for.)

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COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN THE

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,

Jonday, January 7, 1907. Committee called to order at 10 o'clock a. m.

Present: Hon. Charles E. Littlefield (chairman); Hon. Charles R. Davis, Hon. Edmund W. Samuel, Hon. Henry B. Flood, Hon. Ezekiel S. Candler, jr., and Hon. Robert C. Davey.

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE W. HILL, DEPARTMENT EDITOR AND
CHIEF OF THE DIVISION OF PUBLICATIONS, DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE.

(Mr. Hill was sworn by the chairman.)
The CHAIRMAN. What is your position, Mr. Hill?

Mr. Hill. I am the Department editor and chief of the division of publications.

The Chairman. What are the principal documents that are issued by the Department under your supervision?

Mr. Ilıll. The principal documents are, first, those that are printed by law which may be required either by statute or Congressional resolution. In the first case, the annual report of the Department, which consists of two parts, and printed under a law which was approved January 12, 1895. One part is the business report and is printed in an edition of 6,000. The other part is what we call the Yearbook. The law provides that the Yearbook shall be complete in itself, and

(Witnesses: Hill, Zappone.) it has hitherto been published in an edition of 500,000, there being special provision made for $300,000 for the expense. That is probably the most important publication from the point of view of size and cost that we issue. Then there are seven or eight publications, among, which may be mentioned the annual report of the Bureau of Animal Industry, the annual report of the Weather Bureau, the annual report of the Field Operations of the Bureau of Soils, the annual report of the Office of Experiment Stations, and some of these that are provided for statutorily.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you print a uniform number?

Mr. Hill. The Yearbook hitherto has been printed in an edition of 500.000, but the Committee on Printing had an amendment made to the law last year so that this year it may be printed in different editions.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, the successive editions as may be called for?

Mr. Hill. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What was the occasion of that?

Mr. Hill. To prevent the immense accumulation. It was found that a great many Yearbooks, of which each Member has about a thousand copies to his credit, in round numbers, were left undistributed, and I believe a vear after the Yearbook was issued they found as many as 150,000 or 160,000 copies in the folding rooms of the Senate and House.

The CHAIRMAN. Are we to understand that heretofore, under an edition of 500,000, that there has been substantially a surplus of 150,000 to 160,000 each year, approximately?

Mr. Hill. I mean that probably twelve months afterwards there would be that many undistributed and twelve months later there would be some more of them undistributed. It meant that there was for immediate demand a large surplus. In other words, something like 350,000 volumes were probably adequate to the immediate demand.

Mr. FLOOD. What are the publications that you issue, if you will kindly repeat that again?

Mr. Hill. We issue the annual report of the sugar-beet industry in addition to those that I have mentioned, but without looking it up I can not always determine those that are provided for in the statute and those that are provided for by resolution.

Mr. SAMUEL. Have you charge of the issue of the farmers’ bulletins?

Mr. Hill. I have charge of all publications of the Department.

Mr. ZAPPONE. The report made by the appointment clerk to Congress is not that an annual report?

Mr. Hill. The publication of that is not provided for statutorily.

Mr. ZAPPONE. You are differentiating between what is paid for by the Department and what is paid for by Congress?

Mr. Hill. Exactly. There is a certain distinction. Under the present law everything is paid for by our Department. I was referring to the year 1906. The law expressly provides that the Secretary's report shall be a report of the business transacted in the Several bureaus.

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