(Witness: Melvin.)

Doctor MELVIN. Not quite so strong as you put it; but I think to some extent. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I do not mean to answer it for you, Doctor, but that is the way it impresses me. Of course you are to state these matters in your own way. But do you really think that is a legitimate feature that is properly involved in fixing the compensation of a Government officer?

Doctor MELVIN. I think that the expense to which one is subjected should to some extent govern his compensation when subsistence is not allowed. I think that one who lives in a city, where the living expenditures are 20 or 30 per cent more than they are in the smaller country places, ought to have his compensation increased accordingly. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; but that does not relate to this questionthis question involved in the element of travel, and there being elements of expense incident to travel that are not included in the trav eling and subsistence expenses. It was because of that fact, as I understand it, that the salary of Doctor Geddes was increased. He has a certain salary. His traveling expenses, including his fare and his subsistence, are paid whenever he does travel. But, as I understood you, when he travels there are certain expenses in addition to that which he naturally is subjected to, or naturally incurs, and that fact ought to be considered in fixing his compensation, because the fact of traveling places him in a position where he is more likely to incur expenses of that character. Do I get that correctly?

Doctor MELVIN. To some extent; yes, sir; and then on account of his having assumed duties which we had an additional man for.

The CHAIRMAN. But I understand that now he does not do any more than you did when you were there.

Doctor MELVIN. Why, he does that, and in addition makes tuberculin tests of animals which are intended for shipment to this country, which I did not do.

The CHAIRMAN. He is able to do that within the time?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes; he has been able to do so. Of course he is necessarily away from Liverpool at some times when cattle are landed there, and on that account does not inspect all of the cattle that are landed. But the necessity for the close supervision of the inspection does not exist to so great an extent to-day as it did several years ago when I was there, because we did have pleuro-pneumonia in this country when I first went there, and while I was there the Department succeeded in stamping it out-that is, while I was there it was stamped out in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I got the impression-I was mistaken, evidently-that you did this inspecting of cattle that were proposed to be exported to this country while you were there in Liverpool. Doctor MELVIN. NO.

The CHAIRMAN. Who did that while you were there?

Doctor MELVIN. It was not done at all at that time.

The CHAIRMAN. They had not taken up that branch of the work? Doctor MELVIN. No, sir. At about that time this work was under the Treasury Department; or possibly we had it at that time, but tuberculin was not discovered until 1891, and the practical application of it was not introduced until two or three years later.

(Witnesses: Melvin, Zappone.)

The CHAIRMAN. That is one reason, then, why inspections of that character were not made, because at that time they had not discovered the efficacy of tests of that character?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And the material had not been invented or discovered?

Doctor MELVIN. It had not been discovered.

Mr. SAMUEL. I understand you have no fixed salary for each station?

Doctor MELVIN. Abroad?

Mr. SAMUEL. Abroad.
Doctor MELVIN. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. No statutory salary?

Doctor MELVIN. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. We import cattle or animals from other countries than England, do we not?

Doctor MELVIN. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, we import a great many horses from France. Doctor MELVIN. I thought you said cattle.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, animals.

Doctor MELVIN. We do import a great many horses from France and Belgium, and some from Germany and other countries of Europe, and Great Britain too.

The CHAIRMAN. But those are not inspected that are imported from countries other than Great Britain?

Doctor MELVIN. They are inspected at the port of landing.

The CHAIRMAN. At the port of landing, but not at the port of shipment?

Doctor MELVIN. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do we import cattle from any other place except Great Britain?

Doctor MELVIN. Some from Holland and Belgium; some from Switzerland, indirectly, by way of Belgium.

The CHAIRMAN. Are any of those examined prior to shipment?
Doctor MELVIN. Yes; they are all examined prior to shipment.
The CHAIRMAN. And that is by your man at Liverpool?
Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this element of indefinite expense in connection with travel made an element in fixing the salary of all of your men in the field who have occasion to travel?

Doctor MELVIN. Oh, not to any very great extent, if at all. No; I don't think so.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course it is impossible to state in any instance the percentage that is allowed for that. It is simply a matter of indefinite consideration, I suppose, or is it possible to state that?

Doctor MELVIN. Well, I do not think that we have considered that to any very great extent in travel in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, the indefinite expenses a man is subjected to while traveling, for which he does not get reimbursement? Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. ZAPPONE. Mr. Chairman, these expenses consist largely of tips to waiters, tips to bell boys, and tips to elevator boys, and they

23848-07-13

(Witnesses: Zappone, Melvin.)

may be incurred in returning hospitalities extended. Most of the hotels, particularly in this country, are conducted on what is known as the "American plan; " you pay so much a day for your board and lodging.

Now, when you are invited out by representatives of firms or individuals that you have business with in connection with the Government work (and this often happens), they of course will take you, usually, to some other hotel or to their home. To refuse the hospitality proffered under these circumstances would in many cases have a decidedly prejudicial effect, so far as the success of one's official mission is concerned. Later on you have to return that hospitality, and in so doing you take them to the hotel at which you are stopping or to some private restaurant outside. It makes no difference which place you take them, you have to pay the cost of their meal. Now, if your hotel is not such a place as you would care to entertain those people that you have met-I will not call them friends; I will call them people that are met purely on public business-you take them to one of the best restaurants outside. You pay their expenses and also your You get no return from the Government for your expense in that particular instance, because your expenses are going on at your hotel, which makes no reduction whatever. Now, those are the two principal items of increased expense. I won't go into any of the details, but that is it in a general way.

own.

The CHAIRMAN. What occasion has an inspector to entertain in the manner described by Mr. Zappone in connection with the effective discharge of his duties to the Government? What occasion does an inspector, an employee of your Bureau, have to do entertaining in this manner in connection with the efficient discharge of his duties under your Department?

Doctor MELVIN. Well, it is in order to obtain information, which oftentimes is not published at all, from those who know.

The CHAIRMAN. Take the question of inspecting meat. I would like to have it explained how it is that this entertainment is necessary in order to produce an efficient inspection of meat.

Doctor MELVIN. I do not think we have made any-or very little, if any-provision for increased compensation for meat inspectors on that account.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, any of your men. Take the inspection of pork for export, or animals for export, or inspection of imported animals for the discovery of any of these diseases. I would like to know where this entertainment proposition comes in, as a matter of rendering your service more efficient.

Doctor MELVIN. I do not think it exists in this country to any extent. Those two inspectors whom we have had under discussion are about the only ones that we have considered in the Bureau in this connection.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, from your understanding, it does not apply to your employees in this country?

Doctor MELVIN. Not to a very great extent. They have to get that out of their own salaries, and they often complain that their salary is not sufficient to cover entertainment of this sort. But I do not think that we have given them in this country additional compensation on that account.

(Witnesses: Melvin, Zappone.)

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, if the Government gets value from that, the Government ought to pay for it. If it does not get any value from it, these complaints are unfounded. What has been the practice of your Department in that respect?

Doctor MELVIN. I can not call to mind anyone in this country who has had his salary increased directly on that score.

The CHAIRMAN. Or indirectly?

Doctor MELVIN. Well, or indirectly.

The CHAIRMAN. Well then, could you properly say that complaints of that character are not considered by your Bureau in fixing compensation?

Doctor MELVIN. In this country; yes, sir. The Government does get the benefit of that condition just the same, though; there is no doubt about that.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean in this country?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, how do they get it?

Doctor MELVIN. Through small personal expenditures which are paid by the traveler, and for which no allowance is made by the Government. These expenditures are almost unavoidable in performing ordinary travel.

The CHAIRMAN. Does your Department recognize tips to railroad porters and waiters in hotels as legitimate parts of traveling and subsistence expenses?

Doctor MELVIN. To railroad porters, but not to hotel waiters.

Mr. SAMUEL. Doctor, in your arrangement of the salary of Mr. Geddes, should not those figures be transposed?

Doctor MELVIN. What page is that?

Mr. SAMUEL. Page 64.

Mr. ZAPPONE. At the bottom of that page.

Mr. SAMUEL. As it appears here it would indicate a demotion.
Doctor MELVIN. I think you are right.

Mr. ZAPPONE. That is the way I take it, Doctor Melvin. I think in his case it is a demotion instead of a promotion, because

Doctor MELVIN. No; Doctor Geddes received a promotion from $2.000 to $2,500.

Mr. ZAPPONE. Then it is a typographical error?

The CHAIRMAN. Those figures should be transposed?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many classes of employees or agents has the Department in its work outside of Washington?

Doctor MELVIN. That is, this Bureau?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; your Bureau. First, I suppose they are divided into classes, are they not?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes; the lowest class, except a few laborers who are, I believe, under a sort of classification, is that of taggers. They receive a compensation of $720.

The CHAIRMAN. What do the taggers do?

Doctor MELVIN. Their duties are rather varied. At the time that designation was made they were employed in affixing tags to inspected meats by means of a wire and a lead seal. This method of marking inspected meat is now accomplished with the aid of a transferable mark, an indelible-ink mark, from a small label.

(Witness: Melvin.)

The CHAIRMAN. Does that eliminate the necessity of the tag?
Doctor MELVIN. The tag and the lead and wire seal; yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. How is the present marking affixed?

Doctor MELVIN. It is by a small label which is composed of gelatin on tarlatan cloth and printed in reverse type, in indelible ink. This is fastened to the meat while it is still warm and slightly wet, and makes a transfer mark on the meat.

The CHAIRMAN. So that the mark is on the meat itself?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Or does the label remain attached to the meat by virtue of the adhesive qualities of the material?

Doctor MELVIN. Well, it may remain or it may fall off.

The CHAIRMAN. If it falls off, it leaves the mark on the meat?
Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The same thing would be accomplished if you stamped it on?

Doctor MELVIN. The idea is that the heat and moisture will dissolve the gelatin so that the cloth can fall off, leaving the mark on the meat. Then they also supervise the placing of stamps-paper stamps-upon packages and boxes of inspected meats. They have been assigned in some instances to field work in supervising the dipping of sheep and cattle for the eradication of scab.

The CHAIRMAN. Do these labels go on each carcass?

Doctor MELVIN. Each portion of the carcass as it is finally prepared for transportation. There are a number of portions of the dressed carcasses which are marked, generally 14. They range from 14 to 16: that is left somewhat optional with the establishment. There are from 14 to 16 which go on each carcass, and there are certain cuts designated

The CHAIRMAN. You mean 14 to 16 labels?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir; and there are certain cuts of meat in the carcass to which these are applied, so that when it is subsequently subdivided, there will be one of these marks on each of the principal cuts; that has reference to a carcass of beef. On calves, hogs, and sheep there are not that many.

The CHAIRMAN. In the case of carcasses of beef, are these labels affixed prior to the cutting up of the carcass?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir; while it is yet warm; before it is thoroughly dried.

The CHAIRMAN. And those labels are put on by an employee of the Government?

Doctor MELVIN. They were; they are not now. We require the proprietors of the establishment to employ the labor to put these on. But in that event we have to supervise the affixing of them, to see that only sufficient labels are used; that they are properly affixed, and that any unused labels are collected at the end of the day.

The CHAIRMAN. When you say "properly affixed," do you mean that somebody representing the Department has to inspect each

carcass!

Doctor MELVIN. Not each and every one; but in a general way they would see whether the man who is assigned to this duty by the establishment is competent, and whether he affixes them properly. The CHAIRMAN. That is, they inspect typical carcasses?