(Witness: Grayson.) Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. Mr. FLOOD. Do you know what the difference of cost would be of printing 1,854 copies and 1,100? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. Mr. SAMUEL. Are those documents placed to the credit of each Member pro rata? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir; they are not furnished unless they are valuable. If each Member would send in and say, "I want my "Expenditures of the Agricultural Department," we could not supply it; but we take what has been called for before as a precedent to go by. Mr. FLOOD. As I understand, a copy of this is sent to each Member and Senator? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir; only 50 copies are furnished to the docu ment room. Mr. FLOOD. No; but 1,100 are printed altogether. Mr. GRAYSON. That is the reserve. The CHAIRMAN. I have before me the document which you have presented, entitled "Regulations of the Joint Committee on Printing, making effective public resolution 14, Fifty-ninth Congress, to prevent unnecessary printing and binding and to correct evils in the present method of distribution of public documents, approved March 30, 1906," and the schedule annexed to those regulations with reference to the detailed expenditure of appropriations in the Department of Agriculture provides as follows-first in relation to "up-number." Let me inquire as to what that signifies. Mr. GRAYSON. That is the unbound documents that come to the Capitol. The CHAIRMAN. This schedule provides under the head of "Upnumber" as follows, in connection with the statement of the expenditures of the Agricultural Department: House document room, 50: that is, against 420 prior to that regulation? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Clerk of House, 15, which is the same as before; Senate document room, 50, which is the same as before; Secretary of the Senate, 5, which is an increase of 2; State Department, none; Executive Mansion, 2, the same as before; Library of Congress, 5, which is the same as before; superintendent of documents, 2, which is the same as before; legations, 34, which is the same as before; Executive Departments and files, 62, which is the same as before; making a total of 225 of "up-numbers," as against 724, the previous total of up-numbers." Is that correct? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. I find in addition in this schedule, under the title of "Reserve," the following numbers provided for: 502, superintendent of documents, depositaries, the same as before Mr. GRAYSON. He will tell you about that himself. That is to send out to libraries. The CHAIRMAN (continuing). 53 to the Smithsonian Institution, foreign exchanges, the same as before; 5 to the House and Senate libraries, the same as before-no, 5 for the Senate library, as against 15, and 5 for the House library, as against 15 before; 9 to the Library of Congress, the same as before; 1 to the State Department, the same as before; a total of 575, as against a previous total of 595. (Witness: Grayson.) Under the title of "unbound," 300 under the head of "Public Printer (held for binding)," as against 497, and none for the Library of Congress, as against 38 before; making a total usual number under the existing regulation of 1,100, as against 1,854, and a total reserve under the existing regulations of 875, as against a total reserve prior thereto of 1,130. Is that a correct statement of the regulations? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir; that is right there. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other statements of expenditures from any of the other Departments that are printed as public documents, so far as you know? Mr. GRAYSON. All of them furnish statements, and the different bureaus furnish them, too. The CHAIRMAN. Are they all printed as public documents? The CHAIRMAN. For instance, does the Department of State furnish a list of expenditures similar to that of the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And the Treasury Department, and the War Department, and the Navy Department, and the Post-Office Department, and the Interior Department, and the Department of Justice? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And on public buildings? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not think so. The CHAIRMAN. But with the exception of public buildings these other Departments furnish a report similar to that of the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. The report of the Department of Justice, so far as the expenditures are concerned, appears in the annual report of the Attorney-General? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. In the Navy Department prior to this regulation they printed the same number of copies-1,854 and they are now printing 1,100. Is that correct? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you are getting the same number under the new regulations of Navy Department expenditures as you get of the Agricultural Department? Mr. GRAYSON. We get just the same all the way through. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any more call for the Navy Department expenditures than for the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not think so. I think it is about the same. The CHAIRMAN. Then all these Departments to which I have called your attention submit substantially the same kind of lists of detailed expenditures? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And there is no more use made of the lists from the other Departments, as a rule, than of the list furnished by the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That is according to your recollection? (Witness: Grayson. The CHAIRMAN. How many copies, in your judgment, would be sufficient to be printed of this list of expenditures of the Department of Agriculture, so far as their real, actual use is concerned? Or have you not made any estimate on that line? Mr. GRAYSON. I could not say. I think 50 copies supply us with all we need. In fact, we do not have use for that number, but in case we should have, it is better to have a few on hand than not to have any. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. I notice by these regulations that the annual report of the Agricultural Department prior to the adoption of these regulations consisted of 4.854 copies, and under the new regulations 2,986, and that the number deposited in the document room was 420, and that you now have, under the new regulation, 100 copies. Will you be kind enough to state to the committee how much call there is at the document room for that report? Mr. GRAYSON. That is not the Yearbook? The CHAIRMAN. No; I should say not; it is the annual report. Mr. GRAYSON. We do not have much of a call for it, but we do have more of a call for it than for the "Expenditures." There is very little call for that. That is not the Yearbook. Mr. FLOOD. You do not have any Yearbooks sent to the document room, do you? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. Mr. FLOOD. How many? Mr. GRAYSON. We get the usual number. We get the full number of that-420 copies. The CHAIRMAN. Could you give any approximate estimate of the number of copies of the annual report that are called for? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. We do not have but very few of them left anyway, but I could not say how many are used. Mr. FLOOD. You do not have many left? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. Mr. FLOOD. Then they are called for? Mr. GRAYSON. Not necessarily. At the end of the session we would save 15 or 20 copies and put them on the stacks. Mr. FLOOD. What is done with the rest? Mr. GRAYSON. They are sold for waste paper. The CHAIRMAN. You say at the end of a Congress you save out 15 or 20 copies? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; generally about 15, so that if anyone called for a back number we could supply it. We have those stored down in the terrace. The CHAIRMAN. And the balance you throw away? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; they are thrown in the waste paper. The CHAIRMAN. How many would that be? Mr. GRAYSON. I could not say, but I know only a few are called for. Mr. FLOOD. What disposition do you make of the Yearbooks? Mr. FLOOD. Do Members get them in addition to their regular quota? Mr. GRAYSON. Only one copy. Mr. FLOOD. They get that copy from you? (Witnesses: Grayson, Smith.) Mr. GRAYSON. They are supposed to. They do not always send in. Mr. FLOOD. What becomes of those not sent for? Mr. GRAYSON. One Member might come in and want two or three copies of it, and we would give them to him. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any method of calculating or ascertaining, except by approximate estimate, how many copies of these various documents are called for? Mr. GRAYSON. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Áll you could do is simply to state your general recollection of the facts? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The Yearbook is generally called for, and the Report of the Secretary of the Navy goes out a great deal. The CHAIRMAN. Here is the "Report of Operations of the Bureau of Animal Industry." There are now only 150 copies. Is that because there is not much call for it? Mr. GRAYSON. There is not much call for it. It is on a par with the others there. The CHAIRMAN. It is about the same as the statement of expenditures? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. I find of the Animal Industry Bureau reports of the Department you haye 420 copies called for. Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Of those you have not any to throw away? Mr. FLOOD. What is that of? The CHAIRMAN. The Animal Industry Bureau reports. Mr. GRAYSON. I mean they are not thrown away for waste paper. The CHAIRMAN. What comes in besides the Department reports, the Statement of Expenditures, the Animal Industry Reports, the Report of Operations, and the Yearbook of the Department that you now remember? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not remember any, except communications sent by the President to the House in answer to requests for information, or something of that kind. We have something about sugar beet. That is another one. The CHAIRMAN. That is not a regular document? Mr. AMZI SMITH. It has been for six or eight years. The CHAIRMAN. It seems to be dropped out of this list here. Now, of the Yearbook of the Department of Agriculture you have the same allotment now that you have had heretofore, 420 volumes? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. We understand that those are quite generally called for, and the allotment is exhausted substantially? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Of the "Beet-sugar Industry in the United States, Progress," from the Agricultural Department, you have 100 under the new allotment, as against 360 heretofore. Mr. GRAYSON. That is being called for, and I think this year the superintendent put in a request for the full quota. Last year we had a big demand. I do not know whether it was because of the agitation of the Cuban question, or what, but the demand came in for it. (Witnesses: Grayson, Smith.) The CHAIRMAN. Did the demand practically exhaust the supply in the document room? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir; but if we run short of a document that way we go to Mr. Smith and trade around and get them from him. He has charge of the Senate document room. If he gets short over there for anything, he comes over and we exchange with him. Mr. SMITH. We exchange frequently, and save reprinting by so doing. Mr. FLOOD. What is the necessity of the Yearbook being sent to the House document room? Mr. GRAYSON. I do not think there is any. Mr. FLOOD. Are not Members allotted by the Agricultural Department each year? Mr. GRAYSON. The House prints so many that go through the folding room. I do not think the Department does. Mr. FLOOD. The Members get these copies Mr. GRAYSON. From the folding room. Mr. FLOOD. And in addition to that they get them through your office? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes. The order to print carries with it the unbound copies, the "up-number," as it is called, unless otherwise ordered. Mr. FLOOD. And there is really no necessity of this book being sent to the House document room? Mr. GRAYSON. Not really. Mr. FLOOD. Because you assign it to the Members after it gets there, and they can get it elsewhere, a number of copies? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes; but still that comes in under the general act. The CHAIRMAN. Are we to understand that the documents that have been heretofore classified under the head of "up-number" and "reserve," aggregating, in the case of the "Detailed statement of expenditures in the Agricultural Department" prior to the adoption of these regulations, 1,854, have been all that have been heretofore published by the Government for any and all purposes? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, 1,854 copies are all that have been heretofore published under the provisions of the general law that would be automatically operating? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And if any additional copies of this document or any other document standing in like relation to the general law are published, it is by virtue of some special resolution relating thereto ? Mr. GRAYSON. Yes, sir. Mr. FLOOD. What do you mean by "up-number?" I did not catch that. Mr. GRAYSON. That is the unbound number that comes to us. The "up-number" is the Congressional number printed for the House and Senate and the Departments. |