(Witness: Melvin.)

Doctor MELVIN. The practical distinction is the character of the work performed by the clerks themselves.

The CHAIRMAN. The difference between the classes in compensation is $200 in each instance?

Doctor MELVIN. Not in all cases; no, sir. We have clerks at $600, $720, $840, $900, and $1.000, and after a thousand the differences are $200 up to $1,800. I think we have employees at all of those sums. The CHAIRMAN. So that is a uniform classification?

Doctor MELVIN. The prevailing custom in this Bureau has not been to fix their salaries with reference to the class so much as regarding the character of the work performed by the employee and the length of service.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, what is the distinction between the duties performed, or the work performed, by your clerks under $1,000, as compared with your clerks at $1,000; that is, start right in, beginning with the lowest class. What do they do?

Doctor MELVIN. The simpler forms of clerical work, such as making book entries and work of that sort, which does not require a very great clerical education. Then usually clerks are appointed at $1.000 or less, and then as we determine their proficiency their pay is increased.

The CHAIRMAN. What kind of work does the clerk at a thousand dollars do; in what way does the work that he does differ in kind. and character from the work performed by your clerks in the lower grades, below that?

Doctor MELVIN. As I stated, the duties of the clerks at the lower salaries are very simple in character, and they increase until they reach the character of assistants in executive work-that is, assisting those in charge of the various divisions.

The CHAIRMAN. What kind of assistance does your thousand-dollar man render that is not rendered by the clerk below him. That is, what things does the thousand-dollar man do that the man below him does not do? Is there any increase in the scope of his duties? Doctor MELVIN. Some. The work that they do is of a generally higher character. And then again, his additional compensation is more on account of his length of service in the Department.

The CHAIRMAN. Now can you make that any more clear?

Doctor MELVIN. There is not so great a distinction between clerks of those grades as there would be between those of that grade and a higher grade.

The CHAIRMAN. Take your $1,200 clerk. What duties does the $1,200 clerk discharge that are additional to the duties discharged by your $1,000 clerk?

Doctor MELVIN. Of course, the character of the work to which these clerks are assigned varies a great deal in the different divisions. to which they belong. For instance, take the inspection division, which is probably the largest division in the Bureau, and the higher class clerks that is, ranging from $1,200 to $1,400-would be assigned to that work, the recording of reports of inspection, transferring these records into books of record; and they would be capable of determining from the nature of these reports whether there was anything special which should be called to the attention of the chief of the division.

(Witness: Melvin.)

The CHAIRMAN. Does a $1,000 man do that same kind of recording?

Doctor MELVIN. He might, for a time. He might be assigned to that for a time, and then later increased in salary. We try as far as possible, before making increases, to determine whether the person is suitable for a higher class of work, and if he is, we try to regulate his salary accordingly.

The CHAIRMAN. So that during a portion of a $1,000 man's service he makes these same records that you have referred to as being made by the $1,200 and $1,500 men?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes. When we think a man is capable of doing a higher class of work, and we have that higher class of work for him to do, we would assign him at his first salary until we could determine whether he could fill the position or not.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything that differentiates the service performed by the $1,200 and $1,400 men as a higher class of service than this matter of making records and making suggestions to their superiors of important matters that they discover in the records? I understand you to say that is it. Is there anything but that?

Doctor MELVIN. Our stenographers are designated here as stenographers and clerks. They are clerks and stenographers, and do both clerical and stenographic work.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not have any designation of stenographers per se?

Doctor MELVIN. I do not think we do. In obtaining a large part of our clerks, their ability as stenographers is almost secondary to their clerical ability, though not in all cases. In some cases the stenography predominates, but in others the clerical work predominates; so that in most cases we use these people as clerks and stenographers.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they practically all stenographers?

Doctor MELVIN. I should think probably one-third of them are qualified in stenography. Perhaps there are more than that. The CHAIRMAN. Is that when they begin?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. When they start in, that proportion of your clerks are stenographers?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir. Take it in our laboratories. There is a great deal of dictation which these stenographers have to take which is very technical in its character, and as they become proficient we try to promote them in their salaries.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the nature of their dictation? Recording the results of the work of the men in the Department?

Doctor MELVIN. Principally in correspondence and in writing reports; in getting up in typewritten form reports that have been written by the chief or whoever is making the report.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean annual reports, or reports made. from time to time on different subjects?

Doctor MELVIN. The latter.

The CHAIRMAN. What?

Doctor MELVIN. Various reports regarding investigations that have been completed.

(Witness: Melvin.)

The CHAIRMAN. Now, what is the distinction between the service in the $1,200 grade and the $1,400 grade-I mean in the kind of service?

Doctor MELVIN. That is what I understood was under discussion. The CHAIRMAN. No; I thought you were comparing the $1,200 grade and the $1,400 grade with the $1,000 grade.

Doctor MELVIN. I see.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any distinction? Are there any duties which the $1,400 man discharges which are not discharged by the $1,200 man?

Doctor MELVIN. There is not a clearly defined line between these grades, except as you consider the highest of the positions with the Lowest of the positions. They intermingle, as it were, and it will sometimes happen that one who has been in the service for a number of years will be receiving somewhat more compensation for the same kind of work than one who has but recently entered the service. The CHAIRMAN. Who is doing the same work?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And accomplishing the same results?

Doctor MELVIN. Well, hardly that; no. It is usual to presume that the longer they are in the service the more satisfactory their work is. But individuals vary in their capacity. Some will do much better work than the others, and usually those who are the least efficient remain in their positions for an indefinite length of time without pro

motion.

The CHAIRMAN. Do the men who get the promotions remain at the same desks year after year and doing the same things at the same place?

Doctor MELVIN. No; not in all cases.

The CHAIRMAN. I mean as a rule?

Doctor MELVIN. No, sir; they usually have the higher class of work assigned to them.

The CHAIRMAN. Does that higher class of work involve their moving up in the Department-the change of location?

Doctor MELVIN. You mean an actual change in their position? The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Doctor MELVIN. Not necessarily.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know that I make myself clear.

Doctor MELVIN. It would involve a change in the character of the work they were on, and therefore, while they might retain the same desk that they had previously sat at, their work would be different. The CHAIRMAN. You mean different in kind?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. As a rule, then, do I understand you that when a man moves from the $1,200 to the $1,400 grade, while he may remain at the same desk, the kind of work that comes to that desk for him to do is different in kind and character and quality from the work that he was doing before that time?

Doctor MELVIN. In some cases; not in all cases.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the rule?

Doctor MELVIN. The rule would be a change in the work.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, in the kind of work?

(Witness: Melvin.)

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, can you give the differentiation between the twelve hundred and the fourteen hundred dollar grade?

Doctor MELVIN. As I stated before, in those grades there is frequently not a very marked distinction in the kind of work which they are doing. The salary is regulated very largely by the length of service and by the character of the work performed.

The CHAIRMAN. Should it not be regulated altogether upon the basis of the results to the Government, the amount of work done? Doctor MELVIN. I do not think so altogether. I think that length of service, where the service has been satisfactory, should result in some increased compensation.

The CHAIRMAN. For illustration, take a man who has been in the service a year and another who has been in the service ten years. Assuming the same units of result in each instance, is there any business basis upon which the man who at the expiration of ten years is only giving the same units of result as the man who has been in only a year should receive any more compensation? I would like to have your idea on that.

Doctor MELVIN. I think usually business establishments recognize length of service and give some additional compensation in recognition of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Does not that involve efficiency in accomplishing the results on the part of the employee?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, if a man has been at work for a long period of time doing a certain thing, he ought to do more work and produce more results at the end of a long period than at the beginning. If that were true, and if under those circumstances the compensation were increased, it would be commensurate with the results accomplished. But where you consider the mere fact of continuing in the service, for what reasons should that be made the basis of an increase in compensation, independent of producing additional results?

Doctor MELVIN. Ability to perform even the same class of work, a larger quantity, a larger amount of the same result

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes; then you would get more units of result? Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know what the practice is in that respect. in your Department, although I am inclined to think that that element is an important factor in many of the promotions that are made-I am not speaking of your Bureau-but I say now, assuming the same units of result where a man has been in the service ten years that are produced by the man who has been in the service only one year, on that assumption would there be any reason why the man who had been in the service ten years should receive additional compensation?

Doctor MELVIN. I am inclined to think there should be.

The CHAIRMAN. For what reason?

Doctor MELVIN. As a reward for his continuous service and faithful service. Take the question of our veterinarians who enter at $1,200. We have some who perform the same work as others who are getting $1,400 and $1,500; but it would be impossible for us to

(Witnesses: Melvin, Zappone.)

obtain veterinarians if there was not some prospect for some increase in salary. They are satisfied to enter at a lower salary, hoping by faithful service to be advanced. And I think the same principle, to a great extent, pertains to clerks.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, it is your idea that the expectation of an increased compensation after a certain period of time leads men to enter the service, and you are therefore able to get the services of more valuable and efficient men?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. SAMUEL. Does a veterinarian require a specific training?
Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

Mr. SAMUEL. Or technical knowledge?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes; they are required to be graduates of veterinary colleges having a three years' course, and in addition to pass a technical civil-service examination.

Mr. SAMUEL. Then you could not compare a veterinarian with an ordinary clerk, because it would not be a parallel case, would it, as to advancement?

Doctor MELVIN. Well, somewhat, in the case of clerk stenographers. They have to acquire some special training for the service.

Mr. ZAPPONE. The prospect of promotion is certainly an important factor in bringing good men into the Department; also the prospect of a scientific training at the expense of the Government.

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, certainly. Right on that line, do you have any difficulty in getting men for your service, starting them in the lower grades?

Doctor MELVIN. You are referring now to the clerks?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; and employees generally. Well, clerks; because we are discussing them particularly.

Doctor MELVIN. We have had to increase our clerical force quite a good deal on account of this increased meat inspection, and we have had considerable difficulty in getting clerks that would be satisfactory at the rate of a thousand dollars a year.

One reason, I presume, for that is on account of the apportionment. I had one case called to my attention of one very competent clerk who would be willing to enter the service at that salary, but he came from a State the apportionment of which was full, and therefore he could not be certified.

The CHAIRMAN. Are these appointments that are certified by the civil-service list apportioned to the various States, as you understand it?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes, sir; these clerks in Washington; not outside. The CHAIRMAN. That applies to the service in Washington? Doctor MELVIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether or not there are applicants waiting for appointment to the service who have taken the civilservice examination, or do you not know about that?

Doctor MELVIN. Yes; there are.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether there is a large number of them?

Doctor MELVIN. I could not say as to the number of them.